Nelson Mandela has died

GreenSam wrote:

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

Lord tis thoughts on mandela are thought provoking thats forshore, i was in the mandela is a great bloke/hero camp, but is it really true or just what the leftwing/ liberal rulers of this country want us to believe? either way  top posts from tis! just keep the chimp off talking football bollocks!

This county has left wing rulers yeah?

That'll be why the gap between rich and poor is so astronomically large, why we're selling off public assets like there's no tomorrow and why people are having to visit food banks left right and centre? When we're run by a load of Eton/Oxford posh boys who give themselves pay rises and tax cuts. That'll be why we live in a system of unregulated free market capitalism that benefits only the wealthy, powerful elite?

That's really a system of left-wing rulers suffered?

Spoken like a true student! when you start paying taxes to keep the army of wasters this countries liberal luvvies have amassed,and you still feel the same way, then i'll be listening!look around you sam, the unemployable are every where.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

The HIV thing is clearly a longstanding educational issue with it's roots in poverty and imbalance created by apartheid. Not helped by the message emanating from the Vatican, it has to be said, nor from those like Zuma who have failed to do much but exacerbate the problem. Mandela's fault? Prob not.

How did the thread take a nasty focus on HIV and AIDS? Do those posters realise Mandela lost his adult child to HIV?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Rickler wrote:

Uh oh...  Hold the bus!!

"...willingly bend facts..."  


Well...  The CIA (and others) support Tiz.

http://www.indexmundi.com/south_africa/life_expectancy_at_birth.html

... and  add 'WHO' to the support of GOB.

http://www.who.int/countries/zaf/en/


Ding Ding...

Ah, the Rick hits the nail on the left bollock, the figures I quoted related to a projection of the anticipated age expectancy for a bab born into the idyll of a post Saint Nelson Sarf, GOB's figure of course being the current expectation of those who had the benefit Mandela being being locked up.

For the benefit of Knecht and Hairy who just don't seem to get it despite me encoding it in Braille and stapling it to their favourite rectal plug, Mandela was also a wife beating, womanising rapist, three of the major contributory cultural factors which have led to the rapid spread of AIDS.

Mandela is yer typical poster boy of the political leader obsessed media whoreage and the saps suck it up every time, thousands of great men who do a fantastic job working all their lives, looking after their families and generally being good eggs die every day, mandela though is a "GREAT MAN" because he battered the living feck out of his Missus, shagged every bird that came within 50 feet of him, hardly spoke to any of his many kids, murdered, stole and connived his way to political office and then failed to achieve anything for the people who followed the Knecht, Hairy knob sucking mode and elected the fraud.

The naivety displayed by some of those purporting themselves to be 'educated' on here is stunning, actually no it's not, it is pretty much par for the course

You have no idea what you are talking about. Where does the tireless legal services he and Tambo gave to blacks often free of charge come into your summation of the man. His wife Evelyn also withdrew all allegations of domestic violence during their divorce.

Mandela was a philanderer, a poor husband and hardly a devoted father.  But what yas that got to do with the way he gave to his people and led them to democracy from a point of 27 years of incarceration, and the overwhelming likelihood of a civil war?

Forget that...he left his first wife and shagged around.

The trouble is with this argument is that Mandela has been put out there as the tallest, most vibrantly coloured poppy that the free world has ever seen, by the media, by governments (that previously branded him a terrorist then turned up at his memorial service and pretende to grieve whilst fuvking about with a mobile phone like a bunch of teenagers) which to my mind distracts from the real problems remaining in SA. It's almost like saying because of Mandelas legacy we can forget about apartheid and inequality in SA? You only had to see question time the other night to realise what a feck up that country is, as I said at the start of the thread I see him as an inspirational character, I am also going to recognise that he was a ruthless bloke living in a ruthless time in a ruthless country. I don't think I am the man to judge him for what he has done but lets not airbrush history because it serves no purpose. I still feel inspired by the man but feel uncomfortable with his methods, is the legacy that he left behind in SA worthy of unadulterated praise? It just feels to me like we are being told to celebrate Mandela and draw a line underneath racism and the problems that SA face, we bury Mandela and the problems of SA in one fell swoop. If only it were so simple.

I am watching that Question Time episode right now.  Much more entertaining, if revealing a dysfunctional and conflicting state below the veneer.

Certainly beats endless droning about banker's bonuses and food banks.

ejh wrote:

The naivety displayed by some of those purporting themselves to be 'educated' on here is stunning, actually no it's not, it is pretty much par for the course

You have no idea what you are talking about. Where does the tireless legal services he and Tambo gave to blacks often free of charge come into your summation of the man. His wife Evelyn also withdrew all allegations of domestic violence during their divorce.

Mandela was a philanderer, a poor husband and hardly a devoted father.  But what yas that got to do with the way he gave to his people and led them to democracy from a point of 27 years of incarceration, and the overwhelming likelihood of a civil war?

Forget that...he left his first wife and shagged around.[/quote]

Free legal advice?

Whoopee fookin doo!

When I put naive I should have added clueless to cover you completely.

"His wife Evelyn also withdrew all allegations of domestic violence during their divorce."

I've just had Jimmy Saville on the ouija board, he wants to know if you can do some PR work for him.

He battered the living fook out of loads of women, raped a good few, fathered loads of kids that he never bothered to go see, these things alone would make him a complete cnut in my book, but I only introduced it as so many of you don't seem to care about the bombings, shootings, stabbings and burnings alive nor the fact that if the ANC had not gained power on the back of 'Saint Nelson' somebody might actually have done something for the poor or even about the horrendous AIDS situation, but no, it's ok because his wife took the money to clean up his image.

Fecking clueless.

He raped and beat loads of women black and blue? Where did you read that?

ejh wrote:

He raped and beat loads of women black and blue? Where did you read that?

Well not on ATD, Facebook or Tw@ter so there would be little or no chance of you ever coming across it.

This sort of stupid question is what irks me about th'interweb, everybody is allowed to play irrespective of their level of ability.

Mandela's issues with violence against women are not matters for conjecture they are widely documented facts which the writers of history for the attention span challenged have chosen to ignore, if the likes of ejh and many others on here could cope with anything longer than 140 characters i wouldn't be subjected to this kind of simpleton response.

"Where did you read that"?

In the hundreds of contemporary accounts of his activities which exist in the world beyond your natural frame of reference sonny, put your X-Box away for a day or so and pick up a book and you might develop a clue.

Name me one book where that is referenced, which was my initial question.

Spare me the elaborate XIsle style preaching and patonising though.

ejh wrote:

Spare me the elaborate XIsle style preaching and patonising though.

Unlikely when you persist in the 'show me' tactics of the chronically unknowledgable, you aren't know nothing Hairy's, the king of the citation request, love child are you?

There is a veritable cornucopia of information on this very subject in contemporary accounts of the history of the development of the ANC which recount the practices of membership and in particular the leadership in the matter of rape and violence against women, check out particularly the issue of racial rape against women of Indian origin during the unrest of 1949 in Durban.

Mandela was not only an intrinsic part of all these activities but was a leader who never did or even said anything to stop it or to help the victims. The likes of you now come along and put him up for sainthood because he recently talked a good game on the subject, notice he talked a game not played one, really don't get it. His protege Jacob Zuma carries forward the work he started, he has raped and pillaged his way through his years in power in a country where these crimes are common place and consistently go unpunished.

Of course you prefer to go with the stylised, sanitised version of history you gleaned from the BBC news and the Guardian, but please don't try to discredit the effort those of us who have maintained a lifetime's interest in the subject with your 'show me' response, you want to know summat go join the feckin library.

is it so hard to google ejh? im sure you could find LT's evidence or disprove it either way.

 

When did nelson mandela die? they kept that quiet! fooking pasoti.

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

When did nelson mandela die? they kept that quiet! fooking pasoti.

about 2 weeks back.

Davidfriio4 wrote:

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

When did nelson mandela die? they kept that quiet! fooking pasoti.

about 2 weeks back.

Really dave? i've been done up like a kipper!

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

When did nelson mandela die? they kept that quiet! fooking pasoti.

some say the summer others say two weeks ago.

Angry wrote:

is it so hard to google ejh? im sure you could find LT's evidence or disprove it either way.

You would be wasting your time Googling this kind of thing Angry, albeit that th'interweb might seem the ultimate font of all knowledge, there are still a lot of things which have never found their way way onto there.

Cos it says summat ont' th'web doesn't prove much just as it not saying summat doesn't disprove owt.

I just did a little trial Google and came up with over a million links, I checked the first dozen which looked like they might be half relevant, waste of time, certainly allusions to the sort of things I am talking about but more modern sanitised stuff and no reference at all to the kinds of little games he got up to in Tanzania in the early sixties, or should I call it Tanganyika?

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

Davidfriio4 wrote:

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

When did nelson mandela die? they kept that quiet! fooking pasoti.

about 2 weeks back.

Really dave? i've been done up like a kipper!

we allowed to discuss politics on here ?
cause I went to college with the Nazi salute ukip guy.

So this sort of information isn't on the web, has been sanitised by the mainstream press, has been denied by left-wing commie, cock-sucking pinkoes and censored by everyone except the sort of people Angry & Tis talk with that they won't divulge on here. I wonder where that leaves us?

knecht wrote:

So this sort of information isn't on the web, has been sanitised by the mainstream press, has been denied by left-wing commie, cock-sucking pinkoes and censored by everyone except the sort of people Angry & Tis talk with that they won't divulge on here. I wonder where that leaves us?

Why you bringing me into it i dont know if its true or not not in any hurry to find out either way.

If you look on Stormfront where Tis goes for his information, it's clear that old Nelson was a spiteful chap. The problem with disagreeing with people because you think they're liberal (satan) is that you'll inevitably have to rub shoulders with right-wing basket cases like Tis.

The HIV thing has been brought up because it proves that South Africa is a horrid place - any one with HIV is really horrid as it isn't a virus that would infect white, middle class people who vote Tory.

Cool thread guys - Nelson Mandela gave the World AIDS and tortured women. Spot feckin on.

hairy j wrote:

The HIV thing has been brought up because it proves that South Africa is a horrid place - any one with HIV is really horrid as it isn't a virus that would infect white, middle class people who vote Tory.

Cool thread guys - Nelson Mandela gave the World AIDS and tortured women. Spot feckin on.

No, clueless...

Exactly the opposite.

AIDS cuts across all ethic, ethnic, social, racial and sexual lines and everyone realizes that.

So, many feel that with such a problem amongst Mandela's 'own people', that he would have made it a far greater priority to help them and that he was negligent in not doing so.

Therefore, not qualifying for 'sainthood' status.

Duh.

hairy j wrote:

If you look on Stormfront where Tis goes for his information, it's clear that old Nelson was a spiteful chap. The problem with disagreeing with people because you think they're liberal (satan) is that you'll inevitably have to rub shoulders with right-wing basket cases like Tis.

The HIV thing has been brought up because it proves that South Africa is a horrid place - any one with HIV is really horrid as it isn't a virus that would infect white, middle class people who vote Tory.

Cool thread guys - Nelson Mandela gave the World AIDS and tortured women. Spot feckin on.

With 17% of the pop aged 15-49 who have it its a very serious economic prob don't you think ?
Could of been address many years ago.

Rickler wrote:

hairy j wrote:

The HIV thing has been brought up because it proves that South Africa is a horrid place - any one with HIV is really horrid as it isn't a virus that would infect white, middle class people who vote Tory.

Cool thread guys - Nelson Mandela gave the World AIDS and tortured women. Spot feckin on.

No, clueless...

Exactly the opposite.

AIDS cuts across all ethic, ethnic, social, racial and sexual lines and everyone realizes that.

So, many feel that with such a problem amongst Mandela's 'own people', that he would have made it a far greater priority to help them and that he was negligent in not doing so.

Therefore, not qualifying for 'sainthood' status.

Duh.

You know Catholicism right? Sainthood/contraception/Catholicism?

HIV has been used in this thread as a means to point out that South Africa isn't a better place at all. In a way Rickler, you're agreeing with me as you're refuting that HIV isn't just a black issue in South Africa - or you might not be - it's difficult to understand you as you're so angry that I exist that I get the impression you have a template with 'duh' and 'clueless' in it and just put extra words in.

I doubt Mandela would want to be canonised by a white, European church who are responsible for not helping to prevent the spread of HIV.

Rickler wrote:

So, many feel that with such a problem amongst Mandela's 'own people', that he would have made it a far greater priority to help them and that he was negligent in not doing so.

Spot on Rickler, I don't really have an issue with Mandela, he was no worse than many African Despots, what bugs me is the assembled wankstainery who queue up to suck the dick because of the excellent PR when the man did less than nothing for the poor Sarfricans that elected him.

In my book he was directly responsible for the excesses of the ANC both before and during their time in Government, he was responsible for Mbeki and Zuma succeeding him, both of who were and are actually worse than him in many respects. He never criticised them or any of the other Despots he had direct relationships with.

All in all not a nice man at all.