Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Lord Biro wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I agree with much of what you say but it's never ending.

I very much doubt that.  Naughty Rollo

Anyway, on the issue of this unashamed political thread, I am exasperated, and I think Osborne may have just shifted my view on leaving.  I'm now more neutral than ever. The clown is saying leaving the EU would be a disaster as house prices would drop like a stone, some 18% , on a Brexit.  I now know this world is barmy as the UK head economics man thinks the cost of buying a house going up is actually a good thing. Tell that to the huge proportion of the population who don't own one. If one statement in this whole debate shows where the mindset is of these people, then that's it. They're all bonkers. Fancy cheering on the increase in the price of anything ?
Maybe the Chancellor is a secret Brexit plant in the Remain lobby group. He's certainly doing the Brexit campaign no harm at all.

Au contraire, mon ami.

The bookies are shortening the odds on us remaining and lengthening them on us leaving and it isn't often they get a straight 2-way fight wrong.

Stay or go though there's going to need to be some serious bridge-building afterwards which I can't see happening.

If we vote Remain, unless it is an over-whelming victory, the Tories will be rent asunder. People like IDS, Gove and co just won't accept defeat because their careers are gone if they do and at the exact same point UKIP becomes entirely redundant.

If we vote Leave then Cameron and Osborne are finished politically and anybody who sided with them will be considered to be Quislings in the neo-Conservative Party which will inevitably merge with UKIP because UKIP will have become entirely redundant.

Either way there'll be some claret spilled.

Just in case anybody cares I remain Remain. The thought of a Tory/UKIP-led government, which would be as close to fascist as makes little difference, sends shudders through my soul. The Tories we currently have will seem like a bunch of wets compared to what might follow if we leave.

On top of which if the result is carried solely by weight of English votes then the clamour for Scots/Welsh/(and maybe) NI independence will be irresistable so that's goodbye to the UK.

I'm struggling to think of a worse possible series of outcomes than voting to Leave would deliver.

No guts no glory...

All part of Westminster losing it's connection with the people over many years. It's happened before in history with dire consequence. Looking also at Europe, the Trumps and Putins, there won't be many lifeboats floating about. Austria looks like it'll be getting it's first far right leader on Sunday.
It's a form of extreme global climate change in political terms. Very stormy weather ahead with the wrong guys taking an early lead. But it's a long drawn process.  I don't think much can be done to stop the extreme polarisation now. Wouldn't want to be just starting out.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I agree with much of what you say but it's never ending.

I very much doubt that.  Naughty Rollo

Anyway, on the issue of this unashamed political thread, I am exasperated, and I think Osborne may have just shifted my view on leaving.  I'm now more neutral than ever. The clown is saying leaving the EU would be a disaster as house prices would drop like a stone, some 18% , on a Brexit.  I now know this world is barmy as the UK head economics man thinks the cost of buying a house going up is actually a good thing. Tell that to the huge proportion of the population who don't own one. If one statement in this whole debate shows where the mindset is of these people, then that's it. They're all bonkers. Fancy cheering on the increase in the price of anything ?
Maybe the Chancellor is a secret Brexit plant in the Remain lobby group. He's certainly doing the Brexit campaign no harm at all.

Au contraire, mon ami.

The bookies are shortening the odds on us remaining and lengthening them on us leaving and it isn't often they get a straight 2-way fight wrong.

Stay or go though there's going to need to be some serious bridge-building afterwards which I can't see happening.

If we vote Remain, unless it is an over-whelming victory, the Tories will be rent asunder. People like IDS, Gove and co just won't accept defeat because their careers are gone if they do and at the exact same point UKIP becomes entirely redundant.

If we vote Leave then Cameron and Osborne are finished politically and anybody who sided with them will be considered to be Quislings in the neo-Conservative Party which will inevitably merge with UKIP because UKIP will have become entirely redundant.

Either way there'll be some claret spilled.

Just in case anybody cares I remain Remain. The thought of a Tory/UKIP-led government, which would be as close to fascist as makes little difference, sends shudders through my soul. The Tories we currently have will seem like a bunch of wets compared to what might follow if we leave.

On top of which if the result is carried solely by weight of English votes then the clamour for Scots/Welsh/(and maybe) NI independence will be irresistable so that's goodbye to the UK.

I'm struggling to think of a worse possible series of outcomes than voting to Leave would deliver.

Agreed..................with reservations about the eventual future of the EU.

Yep it's nailed on Remain will win the day. Leave campaign haven't made any convincing arguments whatsoever for leaving. All 'Leave' have done is say how bad they think the EU is and not put forward any credible case how leaving will be better. The Remain campaign has been pretty shoddy too. But the British people clearly think the 'status quo' is preferable to the unknown. So we will stay in at, least as long as the EU survives - which probably won't be very long.

During this campaign, the repulsive cameron has gone even further down in my estimation if that's possible.

At least if we do remain I'll be safe in the knowledge that I didn't enable it and when Europe goes tits up (and it is doing and will do) then I can call you load of gullible fools out on it. Whoever listens to the government? I've managed to avoid it my whole life.

333k net..........a real boon for this ageing, time-warp of a country, they bring sooo much, we've never had it so good.

If we Brexit this sort of argument with the French would become really difficult.
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Maybe some of the money we ejaculate towards the EU every year would enable us to build it ourselves and not have to rely on the likes of France and China to pay for our infrastructure.

It's embarrassing innit? Cap in hand to the French and Chinese whenever we need anything built, pissed all the money up the wall from all the privitisation and selling of pensions, gold reserves and assets of property (not just the Tories but the Labour Neo cons as well) and now guess what? The people we gave all those guilt edges deals to (non typo btw) don't want to help out with a bit of trickle down to the country that made them wealthy. If we had run our households like successive governments have run this country we'd all be homeless and were meant to listen to them regarding Europe and their economy predictions.

Popcorn Pig wrote:

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Question Time last night was full-on.

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The audience at the end looked like a ndg ask Martyn a question night.

I do wonder why Farage is still being gagged by the Out campaign. It really is suspicious, as was the way the grouping was chosen that was to lead the Out campaign. Makes me wonder whether the Leave campaign have a couple of Tory remain plants in their campaign policy group, controlling things. That's how the establishment work. Poor old Nige has been banned to outside the parish walls.

He's still preaching to his adoring masses.

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He really has been sent to Coventry. Well, Chappleton.
I'm sure someone has set him up. The Leave campaign won't touch him with a barge pole.

Have had my postal vote and voted ~ out.

Watched that question time last night and if that was representative of the result we will see I reckon it's a lot tighter than the bookies are saying (even though they are only balancing their books not making predictions with their odds) and the carpet bomb approach by the remainers and their puppet press. I reckon the leavers were the majority in that audience. I just wish we had the vote back in January no one has changed their mind from what I can see although as an exiteer I'm loving the work the gov is doing for our cause with their negative bullshit.

Everyone talks about trade, but what is beginning to worry me is the possible militaristic plans of an EU army, navy and air force. Because the potential aggressor has to be Russia in the east, then I imagine the Germans would want to commander-in- chief's of EU land forces. The French, who don't like be deputy to anyone, will probably, because of their nuclear deterrent, insist on running the combined navies - even though they've never had a decent admiral in their existence. The air force is anyone's guess - maybe yet another German with British deputy.

Of course, if this great amalgam goes ahead then the next thing on the agenda is the standardisation of equipment across the 28 states armed forces. This has me asking, which 2 countries will win the lion's share of the contracts? Yet again I imagine the France and Germany will be to the fore in that particular vanguard - and if Brussels should block countries from buying from without the EU then the other 26 will become virtually vassal states.

Still, we might win the contract to make the cap badges and field dressings.

The remainers are getting nervous, desperate even, and rightly so, the tide appears to be turning but it's too close to call imo. I'd say around 80% of people I talk to on the subject are outers but the majority of those are working class or lower so I'm not sure how representative of the general population that is, If I spoke to just students I reckon at least 80% of them would be remainers, however, they don't inhabit the real World...

The points based system that the Leave campaign revealed yesterday is completely unworkable pie in the sky bullshit. Hopefully some of their other arguments are a bit more sensible and realistic.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

The points based system that the Leave campaign revealed yesterday is completely unworkable pie in the sky bullshit. Hopefully some of their other arguments are a bit more sensible and realistic.

Isn't that the same system that is completely workable in Australia, or were they proposing something different?

We already have one that doesn't work. The tier 4 student visa is an example - it's widely abused and if you tick enough boxes you get the visa regardless of your academical credibility.

To introduce a points based system you would have to recruit a massive amount of staff to process the visa applications, as well as quadrupling the amount of enforcement staff to police the actual thing once the visas have been issued. You would also have to have some sort of returns policy for those who were no longer meeting the terms of their visas.

If a Polish national was no longer working for their original employer, would they be detained whilst they awaited removal or would we just hope they leave of their own accord? Would we build more detention centres? How would our relationship with Europe develop if we were locking up their nationals because they broke the terms of their visas? What sort of documentation would be required to enforce a removal to each individual EU country?