Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Les Miserable wrote:

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It's far better publicity now than when he simply proferred a view which few would have noticed let alone taken any notice of.

Now we have the standard meeja storm with the government and by default the Remainers looking as though they are going out of their way to stifle Brexit opinion.

We Brits do like an underdog and the Leave campaign is steadily gaining that status, this will harden existing support and draw a few undecideds into the fold, the more desperate the Remainers get and the more vitriolic the attacks the better.

Don't underestimate the lack of people to be able to think for themselves and the trust of the PM, disagree and you are a conspiracy theorist, also near in mind that most people aren't even aware of much outside their garden fence let alone outside of our borders. Half of my in laws don't even look at the news bar the local paper, too many ponies run over on Dartmoor, police catch man dropping litter ect. Taking an interest in even national news would destroy their long held belief that anyone not voting Tory is a commie, the Labour party always bankrupt the country and the Tories sort it out for them. They have all on the whole lived off big fat subsidy checks from the government dropping on the doormat but are up in arms about scroungers. As for immigrants, well you can't be racist and support any immigration but if any darkies turn up on the farm they will get a couple of barrels so no need to worry there and the checks are bigger in Europe than out of it.
Ignorance and selfishness will drive the referendum the same as it does any election in this country.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Oh Biccy, Nigey has never been a banker

 Do me a favour. Drexel BL, Credit Lyonais, Refco ? who all  incidentally crashed under dubious circumstances and worse. City commodity brokers with that CV are "bankers" in my book, all part of the skimming off the top culture that has given the West it's continuing and yet to publicly fully unravel financial disaster. Next you'll be saying Peter Ridsdale doesn't sell snake oil.

And when the Nationalist UKIP party rebrands itself after the EU referendum, you reckon it will be "radically to the left of the Conservative Party".......  Now that is funny. Plenty of room to settle in there then, I would suggest. I suppose restoring the burning of witches will be the first policy announcement.

It's nice of you to give me the benefit of your massive knowledge but Nigey used to work directly for a good friend of mine, they both hated the bankers who fooked about every deal they did then and they both still hate them now....FACT!

Unlike you I know a fair few Kippers personally, I am off to a Brexit do tonight down the pub. Absolutley none of them are fire breathing right wing zealots, well ok a couple of them, the bulk though are fairly ordinary people who are simply fed up with the way politicians and local government fook up their world. That is of course just the dozen or so local activists I have got to know, thorouhly nice people all.

Politics is hardly ever discussed, nobody seems to hold radical views on anything, they know that they don't like Cameron but see him as a slightly better bet than Jihadi Jez, these are all people who worked for their living, a couple or three still do, they are generally pretty well off but then again I live in a London commuter town. Two things unite them, a dislike of politicians and the EU, politically I would describe them very much as what was known as one nation conservatives, they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole, yes, there are a couple of members from what is euphamistically known as the ethnic minoriity.

It is a puerile activity to hold a view such as you do when you seem to have little actual knowledge, most Tory supporters are not fascists, most Labour supporters are not benefit scrounging, unwashed, Commies, of course all LimpDims are wet and the Greens wetter but we are not considering the loons. Most kippers in my experience are fairly sensible people, they are neither particularly dim nor racist, they are simply looking for a vehicle through which to maybe effect some order of change. For all Nigey's faults he has offered that chance, he is basically UKIP, without him there would have been no promise of referendum and the single biggest issue likely to affect this country and it's people over the next 20 or 30 years, immigration, would stiil be a no go zone. So we should have a little respect for what he has achieved politically and we should recognise that he is not and has never been a fooking banker.

That's all I am saying.

I really don't think you can credit the referendum to Farage. He is far more a symptom of the current malaise than the root of it, he is a chnacer who

The Tories have been bickering about Europe for God knows how long, this is simply Cameron hoping to quell the swivel eyed backbenchers early on in Parliament so he concentrate on his 'legacy', whatever that may be and ensure his next door neighbour wins the next election.

Currently Bremain is winning because they are fighting a battle on fear. Labour had a far more credible policy offer than the Conservatives, yet the electorate were utterly convinced that Gordon Brown bankrupted the country. The Brexiters are failing to land a significant blow, because without sounding overtyly racist they aren't speaking to people's fears enough.

I understand Hameron has been rather taken aback by the size of his party that want out, he'll need to start being a bit kinder to the opposition bench the way things are going.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Oh Biccy, Nigey has never been a banker

 Do me a favour. Drexel BL, Credit Lyonais, Refco ? who all  incidentally crashed under dubious circumstances and worse. City commodity brokers with that CV are "bankers" in my book, all part of the skimming off the top culture that has given the West it's continuing and yet to publicly fully unravel financial disaster. Next you'll be saying Peter Ridsdale doesn't sell snake oil.

And when the Nationalist UKIP party rebrands itself after the EU referendum, you reckon it will be "radically to the left of the Conservative Party".......  Now that is funny. Plenty of room to settle in there then, I would suggest. I suppose restoring the burning of witches will be the first policy announcement.

It's nice of you to give me the benefit of your massive knowledge but Nigey used to work directly for a good friend of mine, they both hated the bankers who fooked about every deal they did then and they both still hate them now....FACT!

Unlike you I know a fair few Kippers personally, I am off to a Brexit do tonight down the pub. Absolutley none of them are fire breathing right wing zealots, well ok a couple of them, the bulk though are fairly ordinary people who are simply fed up with the way politicians and local government fook up their world. That is of course just the dozen or so local activists I have got to know, thorouhly nice people all.

Politics is hardly ever discussed, nobody seems to hold radical views on anything, they know that they don't like Cameron but see him as a slightly better bet than Jihadi Jez, these are all people who worked for their living, a couple or three still do, they are generally pretty well off but then again I live in a London commuter town. Two things unite them, a dislike of politicians and the EU, politically I would describe them very much as what was known as one nation conservatives, they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole, yes, there are a couple of members from what is euphamistically known as the ethnic minoriity.

It is a puerile activity to hold a view such as you do when you seem to have little actual knowledge, most Tory supporters are not fascists, most Labour supporters are not benefit scrounging, unwashed, Commies, of course all LimpDims are wet and the Greens wetter but we are not considering the loons. Most kippers in my experience are fairly sensible people, they are neither particularly dim nor racist, they are simply looking for a vehicle through which to maybe effect some order of change. For all Nigey's faults he has offered that chance, he is basically UKIP, without him there would have been no promise of referendum and the single biggest issue likely to affect this country and it's people over the next 20 or 30 years, immigration, would stiil be a no go zone. So we should have a little respect for what he has achieved politically and we should recognise that he is not and has never been a fooking banker.

That's all I am saying.

I really don't think you can credit the referendum to Farage. He is far more a symptom of the current malaise than the root of it, he is a chnacer who

The Tories have been bickering about Europe for God knows how long, this is simply Cameron hoping to quell the swivel eyed backbenchers early on in Parliament so he concentrate on his 'legacy', whatever that may be and ensure his next door neighbour wins the next election.

Currently Bremain is winning because they are fighting a battle on fear. Labour had a far more credible policy offer than the Conservatives, yet the electorate were utterly convinced that Gordon Brown bankrupted the country. The Brexiters are failing to land a significant blow, because without sounding overtyly racist they aren't speaking to people's fears enough.

I understand Hameron has been rather taken aback by the size of his party that want out, he'll need to start being a bit kinder to the opposition bench the way things are going.

Don't forget we are nearly four months away from the referendum yet. So far on the whole Cameron has had it his own way, there are more undecided Tories than decided so far and I'm guessing that's because they are sitting on the fence but one or two big names going public could see a rush to the out side. If they were supporting remain why not say so now? The renegotiation has been seen for what it is, bullshit, Cammy has rolled out the big guns too early, wait until the otters do the same nearer the ref. also wait and see whether Cammy and NATO can stem the refugee tide somehow I doubt it. The other factor is more and more people are asking for the true facts on immigration into Britain I think too many people are aware they have been fiddling the figures and the real ones will come out.

Hugh Watt wrote:

I really don't think

You would have been better to leave it at that.

The only reason Pig Porking Dave offered up the referendum was the fear of losing Tory voters to UKIP, it was the single issue which probably prevented the Kip from nicking a couple or three MPs to add to Karzie the Tory turncoat.

Nigey's success was the only reason we have a referendum now.....FACT!!!

Amsterdamage wrote:

Don't underestimate the lack of people to be able to think for themselves and the trust of the PM, disagree and you are a conspiracy theorist, also near in mind that most people aren't even aware of much outside their garden fence let alone outside of our borders. Half of my in laws don't even look at the news bar the local paper, too many ponies run over on Dartmoor, police catch man dropping litter ect. Taking an interest in even national news would destroy their long held belief that anyone not voting Tory is a commie, the Labour party always bankrupt the country and the Tories sort it out for them. They have all on the whole lived off big fat subsidy checks from the government dropping on the doormat but are up in arms about scroungers. As for immigrants, well you can't be racist and support any immigration but if any darkies turn up on the farm they will get a couple of barrels so no need to worry there and the checks are bigger in Europe than out of it.
Ignorance and selfishness will drive the referendum the same as it does any election in this country.

I thank you for that insight into the West Devon mentality, fortunately much of the country doesn't operate that way although that is not to say that Pig Porking Dave's opinion will not carry serious weight come "Independence Day".

One of the few advantages we have going forward is that the Leavers are pretty much a committed bunch while the Remainers are as always likely to want someone else to do everything for them, the polls are showing Remain in a pretty solid lead, but nowhere near a big enough one for anyone to feel safe.

Local action is the way forward, there were manned stalls on nearly 400 High Streets on Saturday, the Leave campaign was out on the streets taking the word to the people while Remain was snivelling away to their friends in the meeja, this grass roots campaigning doesn't get the headlines but it can turn opinion in a big way and it stays below the radar, I am by no means confident of a result, but I remain hopeful, I certainly think we have a better chance of Brexit than City making the play offs.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

I really don't think

You would have been better to leave it at that.

The only reason Pig Porking Dave offered up the referendum was the fear of losing Tory voters to UKIP, it was the single issue which probably prevented the Kip from nicking a couple or three MPs to add to Karzie the Tory turncoat.

Nigey's success was the only reason we have a referendum now.....FACT!!!

After a lot of money being thrown at them in the election. Nigel returned 1 mp which wasn't him. He's now a marginal figure as Bozza and Govey have sidelined him from the Brexit campaign presiding over a skint party with his major donors going to the leave campaigns. I don't call that particular successful.

Listen to the Exiteers giving it large Great stuff.
I particularlt like the assumption that people who want to remain in Europe are being scared out of their wits or are just plain dumb. but then I guess this has always been the little englander way.
Many people like being in Europe, they like the freedoms it gives them, the shared goals, even if the methods do need improving. Westminster is already showing just what a bunch of public schoolboys they still are, and the dirty tricks seem to be coming from both sides now. I knew I would enjoy the hustings, and I wasn't wrong.
Yours, undecided this time around.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

I really don't think

You would have been better to leave it at that.

The only reason Pig Porking Dave offered up the referendum was the fear of losing Tory voters to UKIP, it was the single issue which probably prevented the Kip from nicking a couple or three MPs to add to Karzie the Tory turncoat.

Nigey's success was the only reason we have a referendum now.....FACT!!!

After a lot of money being thrown at them in the election. Nigel returned 1 mp which wasn't him. He's now a marginal figure as Bozza and Govey have sidelined him from the Brexit campaign presiding over a skint party with his major donors going to the leave campaigns. I don't call that particular successful.

Yeah, but tou are proven clueless, the ref is a massive win win, Brexit and and UKIP were shown to be right from the start, Remain and the disillusioned Tories will come over in their droves, Kipper gains in the next Euros will be massive and MPs will follow. This is the end of days for the old order.

Lord Biro wrote:

Listen to the Exiteers giving it large Great stuff.
I particularlt like the assumption that people who want to remain in Europe are being scared out of their wits or are just plain dumb. but then I guess this has always been the little englander way.
Many people like being in Europe, they like the freedoms it gives them, the shared goals, even if the methods do need improving. Westminster is already showing just what a bunch of public schoolboys they still are, and the dirty tricks seem to be coming from both sides now. I knew I would enjoy the hustings, and I wasn't wrong.
Yours, undecided this time around.

Then grow a pair and make your mind up.

The plain dumb response is surely reserved for us Brexiters as all Kippers must be boney fides retards, the EU does not proide freedoms, I still have to show my passport whenever I get off a plane just like I did before the EU, what is freer?

There is no point slagging the posh boys, the LabLibbers are just the same, self serving leeches. There are posh boys and leeches on both sides of the argument, it is just that the remainers have no case to put, just scaremongering and lies.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

I really don't think

You would have been better to leave it at that.

The only reason Pig Porking Dave offered up the referendum was the fear of losing Tory voters to UKIP, it was the single issue which probably prevented the Kip from nicking a couple or three MPs to add to Karzie the Tory turncoat.

Nigey's success was the only reason we have a referendum now.....FACT!!!

After a lot of money being thrown at them in the election. Nigel returned 1 mp which wasn't him. He's now a marginal figure as Bozza and Govey have sidelined him from the Brexit campaign presiding over a skint party with his major donors going to the leave campaigns. I don't call that particular successful.

Yeah, but tou are proven clueless, the ref is a massive win win, Brexit and and UKIP were shown to be right from the start, Remain and the disillusioned Tories will come over in their droves, Kipper gains in the next Euros will be massive and MPs will follow. This is the end of days for the old order.

I don't agree. ever heard of the saying a week is a long time in politics? He's got 3 years or more to heal the divisions. The UKIP are completely irrelevant now, their donors having been unimpressed with their measly showing in the last election and are throwing money at leave campaigns now.

As for being proven clueless, that's an opinion there's no proof of anything. Besides everyone on here is clueless according to you, if you thought otherwise it would be pretty insulting

Hugh Watt wrote:

I don't agree. ever heard of the saying a week is a long time in politics? He's got 3 years or more to heal the divisions. The UKIP are completely irrelevant now, their donors having been unimpressed with their measly showing in the last election and are throwing money at leave campaigns now.

As for being proven clueless, that's an opinion there's no proof of anything. Besides everyone on here is clueless according to you, if you thought otherwise it would be pretty insulting

I'd have a shilling that you were talking the same crap after the Kip got a million votes in 2010, then you had no clue of what was going to happen when the euros turrned up in 2014, over 4 million votes and the biggest party, now you think that because their 4 million votes didn't win a seat in 2015 you think it was a failure.

You are a moron Huge, the Kip is now in a far better position than it has ever been, prior to a few last minute deals in 2015 they never had two bob to rub together, they work entirely on the enthusiasm of the members and the sheer brilliance of Nigey, he is not giving up win or lose on June 23rd.

I know you are incapable of admitting what a tw@ you are, but try seeing the whole board instead of focusing on the inside of your own arse.

The only thing which could really hit the Kip for six is if we vote Leave and Bojo becomes leader of the Tories then turns the Tories into the Kip mk2, now I 4-1 don't see that happening, I don't exclude the possibility, I just simply can't see it. Should it happen then the Kip will realign to try and take advantage of the debacle which Labour has become under Jihadi Jez, either way it will go on as a political entity and Nigey will continue to be the most capable and honest major party leader...........FACT!

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I am off to a Brexit do tonight down the pub.

That made me chuckle. Thanks Tis.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

I don't agree. ever heard of the saying a week is a long time in politics? He's got 3 years or more to heal the divisions. The UKIP are completely irrelevant now, their donors having been unimpressed with their measly showing in the last election and are throwing money at leave campaigns now.

As for being proven clueless, that's an opinion there's no proof of anything. Besides everyone on here is clueless according to you, if you thought otherwise it would be pretty insulting

I'd have a shilling that you were talking the same crap after the Kip got a million votes in 2010, then you had no clue of what was going to happen when the euros turrned up in 2014, over 4 million votes and the biggest party, now you think that because their 4 million votes didn't win a seat in 2015 you think it was a failure.

You are a moron Huge, the Kip is now in a far better position than it has ever been, prior to a few last minute deals in 2015 they never had two bob to rub together, they work entirely on the enthusiasm of the members and the sheer brilliance of Nigey, he is not giving up win or lose on June 23rd.

I know you are incapable of admitting what a tw@ you are, but try seeing the whole board instead of focusing on the inside of your own arse.

The only thing which could really hit the Kip for six is if we vote Leave and Bojo becomes leader of the Tories then turns the Tories into the Kip mk2, now I 4-1 don't see that happening, I don't exclude the possibility, I just simply can't see it. Should it happen then the Kip will realign to try and take advantage of the debacle which Labour has become under Jihadi Jez, either way it will go on as a political entity and Nigey will continue to be the most capable and honest major party leader...........FACT!

Laughable.

You lot chucked a bundle of money at the election and ended up with 1 MP less that you started, now your major donors have deserted you and thats a success. Deluded!!

I suppose they've gone a few weeks without embarrassing themselves with references to "bongo bongo land" or "ting tongs" so that's progress I guess.

Leave or remain, Bozza will be hoovering up the man of the people vote and the disgruntled Europhile. He'll have the added bonus of being an actual MP rather than a loudmouth self publicist.

Face it, you've had your chance and blown it.

Can somebody explain to me how "they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole" is not implicity racist?

England, and the wider British Isles, has always been a "multi cultural hell hole" should you be inclined to describe it thus.

The "English" did not evolve on this island or even on the near land mass when there was land bridge to the rest of what is now mainland Europe. Every single person who ever lived and breathed here arrived at some point in their ancestry from elsewhere. I am an immigrant and the chances are that everybody reading this is an immigrant too.

Even the name "England" is taken from the Angles and they were a northern Germanic tribe. Our current royal family takes the name Windsor or sometimes Mountbatten because Battenberg was considered to be too German sounding (which it is because it is German). The Queen is ethnically more Euro-German than British, her husband is Greek so there's precious little "English" bloodline in her and less in her kids.

Pretty much with the Angles came Saxons and Jutes (also northern Germanic) before them came the Celts (southern Germanic) and in between came the Romans (southern European) except the Romans themselves weren't Italian as we understand it today but a mongrel hotch potch of ethnicities from across their empire. After the Angles, Saxons and Jutes came the Vikings (Scandinavian) and Normans (French) who actually created what became known as modern England (before then it had been a heptarchy not a monarchy) from Wessex, Essex, East Anglia, Mercia, Northumbria, Kent and Sussex.

The English crown was taken by 4 x Georges who were Hanoverian (German) in the 1700s. The House Of  Hanover was replaced by Queen Victoria who merged the Hanoverians with House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (both German) when she married.

The British Empire opened up Britain to pretty much every race from every corner of the Earth, we have always been a refuge for those fleeing persecution in Europe from the Hugenots, Palatines, Jews fleeing from the pogroms of Tsarist Russia long before they fled from Hitler's nazi regime.

The Battle Of Britian, arguably this country's finest hour and the most iconic symbol of our nationhood, was fought and won by the RAF which did not hesitate to recruit from anywhere it could: Irishmen, Sikhs, Muslims, Poles, Americans and many others gave their lives just as our "British" pilots did. Just as the generations before them did in WW1.

Our borders have always been open in so far as Ireland is concerned. There has never been any restriction on them coming here. We have recuited people from the Carribean and the Indian sub-continent because we needed the workers and with them came a revolution in the cuisine we eat and the music we listen to.

Even our language is imported. From a Latin base it has assimilated words, sounds and phrases from all of the sources listed above. Not even "english" evolved solely here.

To be English is to be British is to be European and each and every one of them is a chaotic hotch potch of mongrel bloodlines from God alone knows where and with those bloodlines come other various multi-cultural influences: arts, science, trade, industry, fashion, cuisine, sport. Multi-culturalism is here. It has always been here. It makes us what we are. It drives our industry, sciences and creativity and is the turbo-charger on the engine of our economy. The clock cannot be turned back and nor should it be.

If you want to deny our history, disavow our language, rubbish our culture, denigrate our food and disparage the memories of those who won the Battle Of Britain for us then by all means campaign for the avoidance of a "multi-cultural hellhole" but please, please, please don't even begin to deny that that aim is not tainted by implicit racism.

Because even if you cannot see it it is.

You could make the same argument about Australia have a go at emigrating there Franny.

I've got to stay.

I'm white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, male, middle-aged and heterosexual. I'm exactly the right sort to help counter-balance all this multiculturalism nonsense.

Because if you can't kick the multi-cultural flotam and jetsam out then the only option is to keep people like me here. How else can you begin to recreate that mono-cultural utopia that Lord Tis's mates want (not that it ever existed but let's just let that slip by)?

Oh FFS I shouldn't really get involved in anybody else's row but who said and where that we should "send them all home?" I must have missed that one. To me it looks like you are advocating scrapping border controls and justifying your argument by pointing the history of the human race going back pre ice age. Having a control of our borders is not practicising racism its common feckin sense when we live in a densely populated island and I repeat it's not racist.

How do you expunge multi-culturalism if you don't send 'em all home?

And how do you interpret "they do though think that one nation should be England not some multi cultural hell hole" if it isn't racist? Why not Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales? Why only England?

All I'm doing is pointing out how absurd it is on historic, economic, political, practical and logical levels. The only context in which it makes sense is a racist one.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I've got to stay.

I'm white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, male, middle-aged and heterosexual. I'm exactly the right sort to help counter-balance all this multiculturalism nonsense.

Yeah... but you're denying the 'youth' of the country a chance. So best you leave and go off to your multicultural utopian dream.

That's 2 people who in one way or another suggested that I leave the country that I am extolling the virtues of. A country for which I have provided a verifiably fact-packed precis of its history. Of what makes it Great Britain. A heritage that I celebrate.

That's me: a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, male, middle-aged and heterosexual who has been born, bred and educated in a country I'm proud to call mine. Someone who, so far as I know, is as English by their own chosen favourable definitions as I could be.

It's not surprising that refugees are given so little consideration, is it?

For every one refugee I'll give you ten economic migrants.

At what stage do you stop pulling drowning people into an overloaded lifeboat?

Not that I expect you to answer.

At what stage do you stop sending lifeboats?

Not that I expect you to answer.

You never stop sending them.

What about the USA, Russia, Australia or other countries with large land masses helping out.

Has anyone actually met any of these Syrians who have flooded into the UK?