Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Out for me with slight reservations on what this Government has planned for human rights and employment laws. The EU has become bloated and its members are too many and unique to exist under the EU's goal of federalist Europe.

Out for me as well.

All the scare tactics from Cam like migrant camps in Kent is just bollocks.
I would say it would be at least a year before we would start to be free of the EU and its laws.

All the government needs to do.

Get rid of the European Human Right charter.

A British Rights Bill.

Deport all criminals to their country of birth after they have served their sentence and take their DNA to identify them if they try to come back.

Employ more Border Police using the money we will save not giving it to the EU to piss up the wall.

If a British person decides to go to fight for people like IS then they lose their right to hold a British passport.

British law to be the law of this land.

There's a start, as far as I am concerned, to the benefit of leaving the EU.

Remain Larrieu

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Out for me as well.

All the scare tactics from Cam like migrant camps in Kent is just bollocks.
I would say it would be at least a year before we would start to be free of the EU and its laws.

All the government needs to do.

Get rid of the European Human Right charter.

A British Rights Bill.

Deport all criminals to their country of birth after they have served their sentence and take their DNA to identify them if they try to come back.

Employ more Border Police using the money we will save not giving it to the EU to piss up the wall.

If a British person decides to go to fight for people like IS then they lose their right to hold a British passport.

British law to be the law of this land.

There's a start, as far as I am concerned, to the benefit of leaving the EU.

Human rights, what a load of bollox, it's then humans that started all the wimmin and spackos off.

Stay. For all the talk no one knows what will really happen if we leave. I think the cost of leaving the EU will be astronomical and would put the buffers on any British Utopia that we would hope to create by going it alone.

Lets see what the deal is first.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Stay. For all the talk no one knows what will really happen if we leave. I think the cost of leaving the EU will be astronomical and would put the buffers on any British Utopia that we would hope to create by going it alone.

Of course we don't know what would happen exactly but then who knows how the future of Europe will pan out anyway? As for all this cost it sounds like the scaremongering we are going to start hearing a lot more of. I can't see for one minute that BMW and VW will start mothballing production lines because they won't want to sell us any cars anymore.

Let's not forget the cost of being a member anything between £10bn and £20bn p/a depending who you listen to, the gov or Farage. More or less the cost of the health service that we can't afford.

Wow, I took it from 50/50 to 57/43, a clear win for Leaving, just goes to show that you really need to look carefully at polling data.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Out for me as well.

All the scare tactics from Cam like migrant camps in Kent is just bollocks.
I would say it would be at least a year before we would start to be free of the EU and its laws.

All the government needs to do.

Get rid of the European Human Right charter.

A British Rights Bill.

Deport all criminals to their country of birth after they have served their sentence and take their DNA to identify them if they try to come back.

Employ more Border Police using the money we will save not giving it to the EU to piss up the wall.

If a British person decides to go to fight for people like IS then they lose their right to hold a British passport.

British law to be the law of this land.

There's a start, as far as I am concerned, to the benefit of leaving the EU.

That would be English Law Moulders.

When you say "people like IS", who makes the decision? I have good friends who are involved in many ways in the struggles in the Sandpit, the groups some of them are connected with are branded as terrorists by Murka, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and even Russia.

IS, or daesh, as most people I know refer to them is not a single group nor do they actually differ all that much in actions to Al Nusra or other Al Qaeda affiliates,

The other little problem is that, even after Brexit, International Law would prohibit the UK from making it's nationals stateless.

Complex issues Moulders.

Would some of the poorer countries impose visa regimes on GB nationals to recoup money that they will lose due to our subsidies stopping? Or would they just impose an importation tax on goods?

Would all GB passports have to be recalled and redesigned to get rid of the European Union markings on them?

What type of border controls would we impose on EU nationals travelling to the UK?

Extricating ourselves from something we have been part of for 40 years is going to be carnage.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Let's not forget the cost of being a member anything between £10bn and £20bn p/a depending who you listen to, the gov or Farage. More or less the cost of the health service that we can't afford.

The NHS runs at about £130 billion a year hammy so a tad more than the EU.

OBR figures, adjusted last July, suggest the net cost will be £11.3 billion this year, will fall back a tad in the next three for reasons I am unable to divulge, mainly because I can't understand how they have worked it out, only to return to £11.3 billion again in 2019-20.

Interestingly there is a thing called the Pink Book, this records the actual, properly audited, cost of membership, because it is a proper piece of accounting work and is in itself highly complex, it normally tends to run at least three years in arrears, the last figures released, 2013, suggested that the actual net figure was £11.4 billion against an OBR projection of £10.1 billion.

Nigey's figure of £55 million a day is the actual amount of cash we have to hand over, it is correct but must be regarded as being a little misleading, naughty Nigey, but whollu acceptable when one considers the EU funded spin and scaremongering being put about by the Pro EU lobby.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Would some of the poorer countries impose visa regimes on GB nationals to recoup money that they will lose due to our subsidies stopping? Or would they just impose an importation tax on goods?

Would all GB passports have to be recalled and redesigned to get rid of the European Union markings on them?

What type of border controls would we impose on EU nationals travelling to the UK?

Extricating ourselves from something we have been part of for 40 years is going to be carnage.

No it really wouldn't be Frank.

EU countries export £80 billion a year more to us than we sell to them, they have every interest in maintaining the playing field as it is, besides which WTO rules preclude the imoposition of excessive tariffs, I believe 2.5% would be the max allowable which would generate an extra £1.5 billion for the UK exchequer if we tit for tatted them.

Eu countries would not be difficult about the passports, we spend a fortune when we go on holiday, besides which to issue new GB passports to the 43 million British holders of EU passports would not be expensive, all the data is stored digitally, it could be done for well less than a tenner a pop, less than a couple of weeks EU membership fees.

There would be no restrictions on EU passport holders travelling to the UK, they simply would no longer be able to work or claim benefits here without the same level of scrutiny currently applied to people from the RotW, so bugger all.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Stay. For all the talk no one knows what will really happen if we leave. I think the cost of leaving the EU will be astronomical and would put the buffers on any British Utopia that we would hope to create by going it alone.

Why is it going to cost more Frank?

Beyond the £11 billion net cost of membership a report in 2008 by the EU itself suggested the excessive EU regulations cut the areas GDP by upwards of 600 billion euros a year, that might well explain why the EU's share of world GDP has fallen by over 20% since the beginning of this century. Our share of that by the way would be in the region of £70 billion a year off our GDP.

The general view is that Brexit could see an immediate reduction in the price of food, under EU rules bananas have to be a certain length and cucumbers perfectly round. Not true of course but the single biggest area of waste in the EU is the Common Agricultural Policy, so not only do we have to subsidise what is produced in the EU we are prevented from buying cheaper product on the world market, I have seen suggestions from half sensible sources that the cost of food could fall by up to 30%, even if it didn't I can see no reason at all why it should rise.

Of course nobody knows what would actually happen, but I have read a great deal on the subject and all the positives come from the Brexiters, specific areas where we might benefit, all you get from the Remainers is warnings of dire consequences, but then nobody can give a specific case or a reasonable explanation of why the price of something would rise.

I hope that I am a reasonable chap though, so come on, give me some areas where you think the cost to the ordinary Joe would suddenly rise if we exited, a little explanation of why you think so would be nice as well.

I think you are wrong about the passports Tis. A new passport costs about 90 quid but the actual cost is about 130 quid. The passport agency sells them at a loss.

With regard to the freedom of movement, we would have to impose some controls. Not all European countries have freedom of movement (Monaco, Andorra, San Marino require leave to enter and Bosnia, Turkey, Albania require visas). I suspect we would have a similar agreement that we have with non EU countries like Norway and Switzerland though.

Only one country has ever left the EU: Greenland.

Once they decided to leave it took them 6 years to work out the terms under which they could - apparently things got rather complicated due to the fishing negotiations.

I'm sure our relationship with Europe is far less complicated than Greenland's was so if we vote to leave we'll be out before Christmas. No sweat.

I am no economist but my observations are that no one seems to agree on anything regarding economic policy so I am wary trusting anything. I know that seems simplistic and ain't much of an answer but that's that.

In my line of work I think leaving the EU will cost a fortune in the short term as the amount of policy change is going to be mind boggling. The long term financial benefits (or losses) are too hard to calculate as we would be trying to guess human behaviour and how they react to the changes.

Out.  I'd rather we sank under our own volition than be drowned by a pack of faceless fly-by-nights.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

I think you are wrong about the passports Tis. A new passport costs about 90 quid but the actual cost is about 130 quid. The passport agency sells them at a loss.

With regard to the freedom of movement, we would have to impose some controls. Not all European countries have freedom of movement (Monaco, Andorra, San Marino require leave to enter and Bosnia, Turkey, Albania require visas). I suspect we would have a similar agreement that we have with non EU countries like Norway and Switzerland though.

Production and personalisation of the passport accounts for about a tenner of the £77.50 we are currently charged, the rest is admin and general bowlocks which would be completely unnecessary for a bulk change over. I have no idea where you got your figure Frank, but like most so called Brexit issues it is just wrong and massively overstates a non problem.

About a tenner? Sounds as if you are flogging dodgy Oyster cards down Dagenham market to your Britain First mates.

You spout stats as if they are magic and then question everyone else's.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Only one country has ever left the EU: Greenland.

Once they decided to leave it took them 6 years to work out the terms under which they could - apparently things got rather complicated due to the fishing negotiations.

I'm sure our relationship with Europe is far less complicated than Greenland's was so if we vote to leave we'll be out before Christmas. No sweat.

Actually Greenland left the EEC not the EU, as did Algeria, they are having a great time and experiencing an economic boom since their Grexit enabled them to fully exploit their own fishing grounds, something we should also benefit enormously from.

The length of negotiations had nothing to do with complexity but was simply bureaucratic bullsh1t as the EEC Czars tried to persuade them not to go with ever more enticing offers which all had to involve the Danes. Another issue at that time was the lack of a clearly defined process, since Lisbon that no longer applies.

That's a really lame attempt to make the the process seem difficult when in effect Greenland was in every way in a far weaker position, all they do is catch fish and sell them, they still sell most of those fish to EU countries and the WTO ensures that there are no punitive tariffs applied, we buy £300 billion worth of stuff from EU countries and all the major EU economies have a trade surplus with us, the last thing they need is problems with us, we should continue to trade without tariffs and the proportion of our exports going to EU countries would continue to fall, just as it has for the last 20 years.

When we went in we had a trade surplus with the other 27, last year we had a trade deficit of £80 billion, that's £220,000,000.00 a day, boy but the EU has been good for us.

Dick Trickle wrote:

About a tenner? Sounds as if you are flogging dodgy Oyster cards down Dagenham market to your Britain First mates.

You spout stats as if they are magic and then question everyone else's.  

The cost of production of passports was the subject of a recent FOI request, the details are in the public domain, I can't help it that I have both the intelligence and inclination to find things out whereas some of you would seem to have difficulty finding your own arse using both hands.

Time to go for me, while we still have a country.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

I am no economist but my observations are that no one seems to agree on anything regarding economic policy so I am wary trusting anything. I know that seems simplistic and ain't much of an answer but that's that.

In my line of work I think leaving the EU will cost a fortune in the short term as the amount of policy change is going to be mind boggling. The long term financial benefits (or losses) are too hard to calculate as we would be trying to guess human behaviour and how they react to the changes.

Well what do you do Frank and why do you think it would be so difficult?

Perhaps you might consider the fact that over 97% of all UK registered businesses do no business at all with other EU countries.

Check your PMs Tis.