Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

The EU was always doomed to failiure because the only way it can work for everybody, and not just the Germans, is if we all had the same exchange rate, all had the same interest rate and all had one single bank governing it all. The current model is split between winners and losers, on one hand Greece the other the Germans. I haven't seen any Greeks warning us not to leave. It's also why whether we like it or not if we stay in then we will be pushed towards a federal Europe.
Also Turkey will join and quicker than you think. The reason we have bought Romania and the eastern blocs in (not just for cheap labour) is so that the big civil engineering companies can divide all the "free 'money" being shovelled their way by Brussels to provide infrastructure in the way of roads, motorways and bridges. Once the money runs out they feck off and wait for the next one to join. Has anybody else seen all the half finished motorways and viaducts all the way through Spain and Portugal its criminal. A good Portuguese friend of mine said to me "feck Europe, we aren't France, England or Germany, for a while we believed in the dream but now people are waking up and remembering we are a third world country and with our debt we will be for another 30 years."
Viva la federation!

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French having a right ding dong in Paris as their government try to scrap employment laws, proving my point that you can't expect the EU to help you out and only direct action works.

Amsterdamage wrote:

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French having a right ding dong in Paris as their government try to scrap employment laws, proving my point that you can't expect the EU to help you out and only direct action works.

Here's a quite clear question for you. What  real direct political action have you ever taken in your life ? You don't strike me as the sort.

Lord Biro wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

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French having a right ding dong in Paris as their government try to scrap employment laws, proving my point that you can't expect the EU to help you out and only direct action works.

Here's a quite clear question for you. What  real direct political action have you ever taken in your life ? You don't strike me as the sort.

CND ban the bomb, poll tax riots/protest, against Heritage lot for trying to stop people using the bridle path next to Stonehenge, NHS protests, Not in my name against the Iraq war...to name a few. Could it be that you've assumed I'm a certain sort of person when in reality you don't know me at all?

You're right. I assume you're a certain sort of person. Good luck with your big day and your referendum.
Not too much direct action, now.

This has been doing the rounds on Facebook & Breitbart this afternoon. Speaks volumes on how the EU look after British jobs. Vote Leave.

Cadbury
moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU
grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not.
·
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Ford Fiesta Production moved from Dagenham to Valencia
·
Jaguar
Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU
grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works
and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK
plants will lose out.·
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group)
plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. That move was not wanted
by Peugeot, it was forced on them by EU blundering and cost then dearly.

British
Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in Spain using Swedish
steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant,
rather than Wales. (Just assembly. They could have been built entirely
in Wales with British steel, ah Tata, maybe not then.)
·
Dyson gone to Malaysia, after an EU loan blunder. (I didn't believe this till I checked Financial Times)
·
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
·
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
·
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
·
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui
Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant
will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU
funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
·
ICI
integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days
of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating
3,500 jobs
·
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who
have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80
million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. (Now sold on again)
·
JDS
Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20
million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and
just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental
clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the Pension fund
and drained it dry. (Joint CEOs charged with financial trading fraud,
insider trading)

·
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
·
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
·
The
Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company
EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that
has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say
the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it
does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail
locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby
and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end
of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier
had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their
loss-making aviation side in Canada. New trains contract awarded to
German company.

· 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

·
The
Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British
engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria and those
parts assembled in the UK.
·
Cameron’s campaign bus was
made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis
etc., in the UK. (Dennnis now MAN)

The bicycle for the Greens was
made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK, but then they are probably
going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone
who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business
simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically
asset-stripped from the UK.

Name one major technology company
still running in the UK; most were sold off to companies from France,
Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic
technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

Yes some companies are in the UK with EU funding, but have you noticed that
many, like Tata, are planning to shift the production away again, as soon as
they will not have to pay a penalty to the EU for doing so. Hundreds already
did, just using British skills to develop products and then opt for lower
labour costs, often with a serious loss in quality too like Bosch alternators.
Many employ staff only on a part-time basis, minimum wage and even those sent
by DWP to work for nothing, those get just their benefits.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy,
nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than
they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I
mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

The way companies abuse the EU commercial assistance system is not doing the
EU, Britain or any other country any favours. It has massive loopholes that are
simply exploited and no-one in Brussels has the wit nor sense to change it.
Change in the EU is slow at best and in most cases, next to impossible due to
the intense lobbying by companies with a vested interest in abusing this very
broken system. I know Margaret Thatcher was not many people's favourite person,
but she did get a number of measures agreed that have now been completely
eroded and sadly, by her own party. Mr Junker has said that any more 'special
status' for Britain will be difficult and will face legal challenges. In other
words, we will not get most of them, if any.

If
the EU may break up in the event of Britain voting to leave as
suggested by both leaders of the Bundesbank and European Central Bank,
then in all honesty, we have as a nation been propping up a failed
system for too long, It will probably fail anyway, taking anyone still
'in' with it.

Thus, this vote you have is not exactly 'remain' or 'leave', it is more an
issue of jumping off the sinking ship while we have a chance to swim ashore
now, or waiting till it is in really deep water and going down with it. Either
way, being brutally honest, we get wet and will have a struggle.

The question is, do you want to survive or not?
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

The Eu is just for big businesses end of, out now.

£30bn wiped out - a lot of it off pensions - today by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] fears. That's 3.5 times the annual cost of EU membership. In 10 hrs.

Ordinary people shouldn't fret about FTSE companies losing their capital value. The markets do not own the planet.

"FTSE 100 loses £100bn in four days as Brexit paralyses markets and pound crumbles."

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And how much is the footsy worth? It's because the swingometer is now in the out position and it was in the in, markets don't like uncertainty, big money will make more money whether in or out they just get their money out if not sure what's happening. This was demonstrated today by the German gov bonds going into the negative. Hedge funds are pulling their money out of currency.
On the up side all my pension is in my own hands in the form of bricks mortar and land. Feck the money men.

You know what they say...


"£100bn here and a £100bn there and pretty soon you're talking serious money."

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Unbelievable that somebody who doesn't even live here appears so desperate for us to remain, or is it an ideological thing, not wanting the european experiment to fail.

Will the EU itself break up? Would this increase the propect of another european conflict?

I don't think so. In fact I think the empire-building EU will, if anything, will be the root cause of any future conflict. Today's Russia must be be spitting feathers to see former members of the 'Warsaw Pact' like Bulgaria, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Albania and Romania all being absorbed by the Brussels elite. When a nation invades another they immediately go all out to capture ports and airfields - much the same as did the Americans in Grenada and Russians did in Kosova when they captured Pristina Airport. Which brings me to the Crimea. What has the Crimea got that Putin and his generals what to keep their hands on? Could it be at least 3 military airfields, the dockyards and anchorage of the former Soviet Black Sea / Mediterranean Fleet at Sevastopol? You bet your arse it is!!! The possibility of the Ukraine eventually joining the EU could have seen those very airfields and harbours full of a potential enemies hardware.

Oh, and when the referendum has been completed, expect Frau Merkel to kick-start the dormant Deutscher militarism. Also, I'm lead to believe that Germany, having absorbed the Dutch army, has already shown a willingness to take overall command of EU land forces.

I earnestly hope that we ain't part of that sad affair when the missiles hit Berlin and Paris.

Vote leave.
     

Where the feck did you get that from?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

You know what they say...


"£100bn here and a £100bn there and pretty soon you're talking serious money."

Depends whether you're talking a health service or stock exchange it's all relative. Anyway if your worried about this blip wait til we vote out you'll go batshit when everything has a proper wobble. But you know what, It will recover, well get over it and be better off.

Let's hope we never find out.

Voted remain last week. Given the sentiment I'm still surprised to see the remain side odds on favourites. I've been listening to various people I've been talking to and they've always been out. If I was brave enough I would put a lumper on out but there is a sneaky feeling that the outers are more vocal than the inners! Who bloody knows.

I hate for this to be an immigration issue but as it stands I don't care where people were born, that is out of their control. If they are contributing to the economy then great. In addition I dread to think of what a right wing Govt would do for workers rights. For me I feel quite sad that we're a nation who seems to want to turn their backs on internationalism. Young people today don't judge people by their country of origin.

Hey ho. Not looking for a debate as I think by this stage most people are set. I doubt it you will change my mind and I won't change yours. Fingers crossed whatever happens is positive.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Unbelievable that somebody who doesn't even live here appears so desperate for us to remain, or is it an ideological thing, not wanting the european experiment to fail.

Will the EU itself break up? Would this increase the propect of another european conflict?

I don't think so. In fact I think the empire-building EU will, if anything, will be the root cause of any future conflict. Today's Russia must be be spitting feathers to see former members of the 'Warsaw Pact' like Bulgaria, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Albania and Romania all being absorbed by the Brussels elite. When a nation invades another they immediately go all out to capture ports and airfields - much the same as did the Americans in Grenada and Russians did in Kosova when they captured Pristina Airport. Which brings me to the Crimea. What has the Crimea got that Putin and his generals what to keep their hands on? Could it be at least 3 military airfields, the dockyards and anchorage of the former Soviet Black Sea / Mediterranean Fleet at Sevastopol? You bet your arse it is!!! The possibility of the Ukraine eventually joining the EU could have seen those very airfields and harbours full of a potential enemies hardware.

Oh, and when the referendum has been completed, expect Frau Merkel to kick-start the dormant Deutscher militarism. Also, I'm lead to believe that Germany, having absorbed the Dutch army, has already shown a willingness to take overall command of EU land forces.

I earnestly hope that we ain't part of that sad affair when the missiles hit Berlin and Paris.

Vote leave.
     

 Where the feck did you get that from?

The German/Dutch armies have just formed 1(GE/NL) Corps with it's HQ in Munster, Westphalia.

We're gonna have to wait until the referendum is over before we discover the true intent of Angela's military ambition.

Probably a blessing in disguise that the Russkies snatched back the Crimea as there's less chance the Frogs and Hun will park their ships and planes there.

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Unbelievable that somebody who doesn't even live here appears so desperate for us to remain, or is it an ideological thing, not wanting the european experiment to fail.

Will the EU itself break up? Would this increase the propect of another european conflict?

I don't think so. In fact I think the empire-building EU will, if anything, will be the root cause of any future conflict. Today's Russia must be be spitting feathers to see former members of the 'Warsaw Pact' like Bulgaria, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Albania and Romania all being absorbed by the Brussels elite. When a nation invades another they immediately go all out to capture ports and airfields - much the same as did the Americans in Grenada and Russians did in Kosova when they captured Pristina Airport. Which brings me to the Crimea. What has the Crimea got that Putin and his generals what to keep their hands on? Could it be at least 3 military airfields, the dockyards and anchorage of the former Soviet Black Sea / Mediterranean Fleet at Sevastopol? You bet your arse it is!!! The possibility of the Ukraine eventually joining the EU could have seen those very airfields and harbours full of a potential enemies hardware.

Oh, and when the referendum has been completed, expect Frau Merkel to kick-start the dormant Deutscher militarism. Also, I'm lead to believe that Germany, having absorbed the Dutch army, has already shown a willingness to take overall command of EU land forces.

I earnestly hope that we ain't part of that sad affair when the missiles hit Berlin and Paris.

Vote leave.
     

 Where the feck did you get that from?

The German/Dutch armies have just formed 1(GE/NL) Corps with it's HQ in Munster, Westphalia.

We're gonna  have to wait until the referendum is over before we discover the true intent of Angela's military ambition.

Probably a blessing in disguise that the Russkies snatched back the Crimea as there's less chance the Frogs and Hun will park their ships and planes there.

Better get Boris and Nige to spend all the extra cashwe will save on expanding our armed forces then!!!!

Sorry but I must pause for a giggle here.....

The Germans have no real army, the air force and navy are in tatters....

I'll try and find out more next week when I may meet with a high ranking officer in the German army.

Just another one of the more recent "facts" that are emerging....

Whatever the outcome, I will respect the vote (I hope that the Brexiters on here will also do so!) and get on with things.

I do feel however that, as almost always in these kind os situations, saying what you will do and then actually doing it (especially as nobody will actually witness what you do) are two different things.

For example, UKIP did quite well in some local elections (as did the BNP in a couple) but when it came down to the "real" election, where did all the kippers go?

I'm not saying that it will happen next Thursday, but can you really believe the opinion polls?

We have another 9 days?

That's a long time in politics!

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Unbelievable that somebody who doesn't even live here appears so desperate for us to remain, or is it an ideological thing, not wanting the european experiment to fail.

Will the EU itself break up? Would this increase the propect of another european conflict?

I don't think so. In fact I think the empire-building EU will, if anything, will be the root cause of any future conflict. Today's Russia must be be spitting feathers to see former members of the 'Warsaw Pact' like Bulgaria, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Albania and Romania all being absorbed by the Brussels elite. When a nation invades another they immediately go all out to capture ports and airfields - much the same as did the Americans in Grenada and Russians did in Kosova when they captured Pristina Airport. Which brings me to the Crimea. What has the Crimea got that Putin and his generals what to keep their hands on? Could it be at least 3 military airfields, the dockyards and anchorage of the former Soviet Black Sea / Mediterranean Fleet at Sevastopol? You bet your arse it is!!! The possibility of the Ukraine eventually joining the EU could have seen those very airfields and harbours full of a potential enemies hardware.

Oh, and when the referendum has been completed, expect Frau Merkel to kick-start the dormant Deutscher militarism. Also, I'm lead to believe that Germany, having absorbed the Dutch army, has already shown a willingness to take overall command of EU land forces.

I earnestly hope that we ain't part of that sad affair when the missiles hit Berlin and Paris.

Vote leave.
     

 Where the feck did you get that from?

The German/Dutch armies have just formed 1(GE/NL) Corps with it's HQ in Munster, Westphalia.

We're gonna  have to wait until the referendum is over before we discover the true intent of Angela's military ambition.

Probably a blessing in disguise that the Russkies snatched back the Crimea as there's less chance the Frogs and Hun will park their ships and planes there.

I wish you Brexiters would actually do some research (it took me 30 seconds) before you post your crap. Look at the dates! Look at who was the Chancellor!

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Current structure[edit]
When not deployed, 1(GE/NL)Corps consists only of administration and logistic support. However, in an emergency the corps must be able to deploy and lead a military mission inside and outside NATO territory within twenty to thirty days.

The previous Commander (COM), as noted above, is the Dutch Lieutenant General Ton van Loon; the Chief of Staff (COS) is the Dutch Brigadier General Kees van den Heuvel. The Deputy Commander (DCOM) is Dutch Major General Michiel van der Laan. Following a three Deputy Chief of Staff structure, since 2013, the Corps is containing 4 entities led by Brigadier Generals, namely the Support Division, the Operations+Training Division, the Knowledge+Policy Production Division and the Communication+Engagement Division.

The following units are permanently part of HQ 1(GE/NL) Corps:

Staff Support Battalion (Münster) StaffSupportBattalionGENL.jpg
Communication and Information Systems (CIS) Battalion (Eibergen and Garderen)
Both these units are fully binational, manned with German and Dutch soldiers.

From what I see, the UK is also a part of this!!!!


Throughout this whole "debate" on here, I haven't had one "real" answer from a Brexiter to any of my questions!!

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Throughout this whole "debate" on here, I haven't had one "real" answer from a Brexiter to any of my questions!!

Really?  I answered 10 of them yesterday, you remainers just love a lie

Current structure[edit]
When not deployed, 1(GE/NL)Corps consists only of administration and logistic support. However, in an emergency the corps must be able to deploy and lead a military mission inside and outside NATO territory within twenty to thirty days.

The following units are permanently part of HQ 1(GE/NL) Corps:

Staff Support Battalion (Münster) StaffSupportBattalionGENL.jpg
Communication and Information Systems (CIS) Battalion (Eibergen and Garderen)
Both these units are fully binational, manned with German and Dutch soldiers.

From what I see, the UK is also a part of this!!!![/quote]

Sounds pretty much like a military unit to me. What's all this about leading military missions inside and outside Nato Territory within twenty to thirty days? Surely not a task to be given to a ragbag unit.

As for Brits in Munster, I was stationed near Osnabruck and routinely visited units in and around Munster on many occasions.

Interesting that Cameron has been gagged for these last few days.....his mouthing off has been losing votes....and he is our PM......whatever happens he has to go.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

"FTSE 100 loses £100bn in four days as Brexit paralyses markets and pound crumbles."

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Things must be desperate for you to start using the Telegraph as a reference-wassa matter,-Guardian turned Brexit or something?

Unusual for a representative of the In campaign to use blackmailing scare tactics. I actually stand to lose a fair bit of money but it'll be well worth it if the right decision is made. You know damn well that if Brexit is achieved then soon after when the dust has settled and it becomes apparent that British withdrawal doesn't mean the end of the universe then things will return to normal, exactly as they did in 2008 or after Black Monday,Black Wednesday or whatever-EU membership certainly didn't help the finances of many millions of people during those events. If anyone is to blame for the uncertainties then it has to be Cameron and his ilk [including you] for the wall to wall doom mongering propagated since the announcement of the referendum. How's that for a bit of reversing-the-guilt-trip psychology.

Rubbish.  
Doom is ladled on thick by both sides. Leave and the planet collapses, stay and the UK becomes a satellite of Mecca.
I'm beginning to enjoy the hustings now, I knew I would. I liked the blue on blue quote. Typical Tory pseudo military speak.