Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

How about the working time directive.

Do you live in the real world?

We have zero hours contracts and people working on minimum wage who can't take a piss during their shift, what does the WTD actually achieve, I know people that desperately want more hours because they can't live on what they earn, we have nearly 6 million self employed people now because EU work regulations makes it too expensive to employ people on proper work contracts.

Again it doesn't affect me, I am old enough to be dead now and I earn enough from the Tories pumping the housing market and general slum landlording to see me off in decent style, the WTD does nothing to help young people or those working in crap jobs at minimum wages, or the 6 million self employed, it is just another EU reg which makes doing business more expensive so big business has found ways around it, with the connivance of their friends in Government.

I employed a little girl week end before last, bright as a button, uni grad in a nothing subject but right on it. She came to me during the day to ask if she could go to the toilet, I said of course, she didn't have to ask, just get someone to watch her post, she was surprised as in her 'full time job', which is a ZHC and pays 30% less than I do it would mean her losing pay and probably not getting her full hours for a bit as a punishment, that is what the EU has done to improve real workers rights....fook all.

Hugh Watt wrote:

The fact that Corbyn is now seen as far left (which he isn't), shows exactly how far the political centre ground has been skewed by self interested media.

Oh please, Jihadi Jez is a card carrying Commie who would disband the army and throw open the borders to any scum terrorist who wants to come here. Nobody would be expected to do a days work and everyone would be given a "living wage" whether they worked or not........then the country would go bankrupt, well we can't go bankrupt because we have our own currency, tough buns Greece, so the pound would be devalued at a rate never previously seen as the deficit exploded.

He isn't "far left", he is completely off the scale.

Hugh Midde wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

I trust Europe to protect basic rights (human and workers) than I do any Tory Government.

Doesn't that go to the heart of the matter though, Dick. It's relatively easy to change our national government but it seems nigh on impossible to change the direction of pan European travel.

Boundary alterations and the changes to the electoral register where 800,000, mainly young people, have disappeared make a Tory government more likely. In addition it seems that we have a naturally right wing electorate where the only chance of Labour success is to move to the right, which personally is depressing, but that's democracy.

Turn and turn about isn't it. The 2005 general election saw Tony Blair's Labour win 35.2 per cent of the popular vote, compared to 32.4 per cent for the Tories.

Despite the fact that the differences between the total votes cast for both parties were very small, Labour ended up with 355 seats while the Conservatives got just 198. That's 55 per cent compared to 30 per cent.

Being happy or aggrieved rather depends on who you voted for.

The proposed boundary changes are a reasonable start toward making the FPTP system as fair as is possible, having as similar a number of voters in each constituency cannot be anything but fair, Labour, the Welsh and Scots bitching because they lose out is a joke, the Tories and the English have been losing out for generations, an English Tory vote has been worth far less historically than a Welsh Labour vote just as inner city votes have carried far more weight than rural ones.

FPTP has issues, I like it because it anchors an MP to specific people, we need a recall option so the bad apples could be brought to book and maybe a PR portion a bit like the Sweaties and Sheep Shaggers have could be introduced to level the playing field a tad.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

How about the working time directive.

Do you live in the real world?

We have zero hours contracts and people working on minimum wage who can't take a piss during their shift, what does the WTD actually achieve, I know people that desperately want more hours because they can't live on what they earn, we have nearly 6 million self employed people now because EU work regulations makes it too expensive to employ people on proper work contracts.

Again it doesn't affect me, I am old enough to be dead now and I earn enough from the Tories pumping the housing market and general slum landlording to see me off in decent style, the WTD does nothing to help young people or those working in crap jobs at minimum wages, or the 6 million self employed, it is just another EU reg which makes doing business more expensive so big business has found ways around it, with the connivance of their friends in Government.

I employed a little girl week end before last, bright as a button, uni grad in a nothing subject but right on it. She came to me during the day to ask if she could go to the toilet, I said of course, she didn't have to ask, just get someone to watch her post, she was surprised as in her 'full time job', which is a ZHC and pays 30% than I do it would mean her losing pay and probably not getting her full hours for a bit as a punishment, that is what the EU has done to improve real workers rights....fook all.

My sister was a para medic she got invalided out for bad knees (mainly because most of her "customers" weighed in at about 25st on average anyway I digress) she easily could have been moved sideways into training, something she is qualified to do and good at, on a similar payscale. Unforch for her they are now employing trainers on lower wages than she was on so they offered her a job on the minimum wage in Exeter in the call centre (She lives in Tavvy btw) all legal in Europe and the UK. One of the jobs she has been doing since is working self employed marking A level papers for some kind of quango/agency, her last months earrings she earned £4.40hr again all legal and above board. I also have a friend who worked at the coop, she wanted a part time job and was offered 12 hours a week on zero hours contract. Within a couple of weeks she was being pressured to do 39 hours a week, basically the coop wants full time staff but don't want to pay holiday pay, cool eh?
I have some good friends in Portugal and my mates wife is "lucky" to have a job in a call centre 12 hour days, 5 days a week for the grand total of €125 a week! She limits herself to drinking one 330cl bottle of water a day because they are only allowed 12 mins a day for toilet breaks, if they go over the 12 mins they get docked an hours pay for every minute over.
Moist sounds like one of those people who argue against the living wage arguing it will put up prices but earn large salaries themselves. It's good sometimes to mix with people outside of your own employment circle for that reason.

As far as I am aware there is no EU legislation concerning zero hour contracts (perhaps there should be). The horror stories above seem to be down to bad, greedy employers.

What is the UK goverment doing about it? How will it change if we leave the EU?

FWIW, I think having a minimum wage is a good idea but I don't think it is high enough.....

The UK government is on record saying it wholeheartedly approves of the zero hours culture that more and more employers are taking up, under the usual guise of good for the economy da da da.. They even tried to get unemployed people sanctioned so they lose their benefits, if they don't accept zero hours contracts, with no guarantee whatsoever of getting any pay at all. I'm not sure if they succeeded in that one.
If the UK leave the EU, the UK government will further deregulate the employment market in favour of the employers. UK "apprenticeships" are not popular in Europe, especially in Germany, as they are nothing more than legal excuses to pay poverty wages, and undermine the whole principle. Germany have always had proper apprenticeships as they actually have a manufacturing.engineering economy that needs such skills. The UK sell coffee. Speaks for itself.
It's getting worse and worse. These youngsters need to get their act together or they will have a life of upstairs, downstairs.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

You're such a div Ludwig.

The £11 billion is our net contribution.

Yes you are about right..

"The UK net contribution to the EU budget is less than 0.5 per cent of British GDP".

"Well, the Confederation of British Industry - hardly a fluffy bunch of Bruges graduates - suggests the direct net economic benefits of membership to the UK are between £62bn and £78bn every year".

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The UK manufacturing sector is the fastest growing of the major EU economies.

That's good isn't it? And it's happening whilst we are in the EU.

The issue is about three years from now when the rapefugees have EU citizenship, then they will be on their way like rats up an aqueduct.

More scaremongering by you....

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Neither the German nor any other parliament will get a vote on TTIP.
What about TTIP? We stay in the EU it's a given.

Again, more waffle....

Ratification[edit]
The 28 governments will then have to approve or reject the negotiated agreement in the EU Council of Ministers, at which point the European Parliament will also be asked for its endorsement. The EU Parliament is empowered to approve or reject the agreement. Individual countries have different rules on approving and ratifying the document. For example, Article 53 of the French Constitution states, "trade treaties can only be ratified by a law" passed by the French Parliament. In the United States, both houses of the Congress would have to pass the agreement.[63]

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Coastal sea angling is a huge industry which the EU is about to kill off costing thousands of jobs.

Is this about the sea bass stocks? If so, I couldn't agree with it more (and yes I'm an angler). There are plenty of other tasty species out there.


Why do you Pro EUSSR muppets never come up with one decent verifiable and quantifiable reason to stay in, all you ever talk about is the huge problems of leaving then you can never be specific about what they might be or how much they might cost, always just scaredy cat nonsense. I heard some stupid woman on the radio today saying EU countries would no longer supply us with info on suspected terrorists, what utter sh1t, does the mad cow think that currently the EU countries do not share terrorist info with the US, Australia, the African countries, India, South America or the rest of the world which does not pay £11 billion a year for a membership card to the EUSSR?

The scaredy cat play is all they have got and I think they have been sussed, what happened with the Sweaties will have wised up an awful lot of people.

When you can back up your arguments, I might be prepared to listen more.

Notice I haven't insulted you......

My responses are in green. Please take time to read the relevant links. Maybe you can provide counter arguments?

In my opinion TTIP is far more likely to happen to a UK outside the EU. A divorced UK will be bound to move nearer to the USA, who are the characters who are actually driving the whole Atlantic and Pacific nightmare scenario treaties on behalf of their corporations, particularly their private health providers, who fully intend to undercut, cherry pick and loss lead NHS contracts. Once NHS staff are forced to move from the NHS to these American migrants, it will be job done.

Lord Biro wrote:

In my opinion TTIP is far more likely to happen to a UK outside the EU. A divorced UK will be bound to move nearer to the USA, who are the characters who are actually driving the whole Atlantic and Pacific nightmare scenario treaties on behalf of their corporations, particularly their private health providers, who fully intend to undercut, cherry pick and loss lead NHS contracts. Once NHS staff are forced to move from the NHS to these American migrants, it will be job done.

I agree.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

You're such a div Ludwig.

The £11 billion is our net contribution.

Yes you are about right..

"The UK net contribution to the EU budget is less than 0.5 per cent of British GDP".

"Well, the Confederation of British Industry - hardly a fluffy bunch of Bruges graduates - suggests the direct net economic benefits of membership to the UK are between £62bn and £78bn every year".

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The UK manufacturing sector is the fastest growing of the major EU economies.

That's good isn't it? And it's happening whilst we are in the EU.

The issue is about three years from now when the rapefugees have EU citizenship, then they will be on their way like rats up an aqueduct.

More scaremongering by you....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Neither the German nor any other parliament will get a vote on TTIP.
What about TTIP? We stay in the EU it's a given.

Again, more waffle....

Ratification[edit]
The 28 governments will then have to approve or reject the negotiated agreement in the EU Council of Ministers, at which point the European Parliament will also be asked for its endorsement. The EU Parliament is empowered to approve or reject the agreement. Individual countries have different rules on approving and ratifying the document. For example, Article 53 of the French Constitution states, "trade treaties can only be ratified by a law" passed by the French Parliament. In the United States, both houses of the Congress would have to pass the agreement.[63]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Coastal sea angling is a huge industry which the EU is about to kill off costing thousands of jobs.

Is this about the sea bass stocks? If so, I couldn't agree with it more (and yes I'm an angler). There are plenty of other tasty species out there.


Why do you Pro EUSSR muppets never come up with one decent verifiable and quantifiable reason to stay in, all you ever talk about is the huge problems of leaving then you can never be specific about what they might be or how much they might cost, always just scaredy cat nonsense. I heard some stupid woman on the radio today saying EU countries would no longer supply us with info on suspected terrorists, what utter sh1t, does the mad cow think that currently the EU countries do not share terrorist info with the US, Australia, the African countries, India, South America or the rest of the world which does not pay £11 billion a year for a membership card to the EUSSR?

The scaredy cat play is all they have got and I think they have been sussed, what happened with the Sweaties will have wised up an awful lot of people.

When you can back up your arguments, I might be prepared to listen more.

Notice I haven't insulted you......

My responses are in green. Please take time to read the relevant links. Maybe you can provide counter arguments?

Hell's teeth, £11 billion is £11 billion, the CBI is a pro EU Lobby Group, their first office was in Brussels and these figures of the benefits of membership have no basis, the EU itself said in 2008 that their regulations probably reduced the regions GDP by over 600 billion Euros.

UK manufacturing prospers while exports to the other 27 have fallen year on year for 20 years.

If you think the refugee issue is a long way off let your daughters or any female friends if you have any go for a night out in Cologne next NYE.

The Governments get to rubber stamp TTIP but none will be able to debate it or any other Commission ruling, that is a FACT!

Why do we allow some EU bureaucrat to tell anglers what they catch in our waters?

You insult mine and every other ATDers intelligence with your waffle, but in the death arguments for and against are all speculative, except thst we know for certain that being a member costs £11 billion a year as well as the regulations adding massively to the cost of doing business, we know for a fact that in 60 years the EU has negotiated just one free trade agreement with what could be described as a major trading nation, Korea, we sell them less than £5 billion a year and import a whole load more, we know that we run an £80 billion a year trading deficit with the other 27 and that our exports to the 27 have fallen every year for the last 20 years as a proportion of our total exports, we know that if we left none of the 27 would have any incentive to start a trade war with us, we know that the only way we could refuse entry to any of the millions of young muslim males who will soon be EU passport holders is to be out of the EU.

Unlike you I love this country and would never consider living anywhere else, these reasons are more than enough for me to think that the minimal risks of Brexit are well worth the huge potential gains.

Official figures say 320,000 EU benefits scroungers came here last year, funny thing is 650,000 Nat Ins numbers were issued to EU nationals in the same period.

Lies, damn lies and EUSSR lies.


I have edited the offending word, there is no excuse for using such a term on here, Seadog

Amsterdamage wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

How about the working time directive.

Do you live in the real world?

We have zero hours contracts and people working on minimum wage who can't take a piss during their shift, what does the WTD actually achieve, I know people that desperately want more hours because they can't live on what they earn, we have nearly 6 million self employed people now because EU work regulations makes it too expensive to employ people on proper work contracts.

Again it doesn't affect me, I am old enough to be dead now and I earn enough from the Tories pumping the housing market and general slum landlording to see me off in decent style, the WTD does nothing to help young people or those working in crap jobs at minimum wages, or the 6 million self employed, it is just another EU reg which makes doing business more expensive so big business has found ways around it, with the connivance of their friends in Government.

I employed a little girl week end before last, bright as a button, uni grad in a nothing subject but right on it. She came to me during the day to ask if she could go to the toilet, I said of course, she didn't have to ask, just get someone to watch her post, she was surprised as in her 'full time job', which is a ZHC and pays 30% than I do it would mean her losing pay and probably not getting her full hours for a bit as a punishment, that is what the EU has done to improve real workers rights....fook all.

My sister was a para medic she got invalided out for bad knees (mainly because most of her "customers" weighed in at about 25st on average anyway I digress) she easily could have been moved sideways into training, something she is qualified to do and good at, on a similar payscale. Unforch for her they are now employing trainers on lower wages than she was on so they offered her a job on the minimum wage in Exeter in the call centre (She lives in Tavvy btw) all legal in Europe and the UK. One of the jobs she has been doing since is working self employed marking A level papers for some kind of quango/agency, her last months earrings she earned £4.40hr again all legal and above board. I also have a friend who worked at the coop, she wanted a part time job and was offered 12 hours a week on zero hours contract. Within a couple of weeks she was being pressured to do 39 hours a week, basically the coop wants full time staff but don't want to pay holiday pay, cool eh?
I have some good friends in Portugal and my mates wife is "lucky" to have a job in a call centre 12 hour days, 5 days a week for the grand total of €125 a week! She limits herself to drinking one 330cl bottle of water a day because they are only allowed 12 mins a day for toilet breaks, if they go over the 12 mins they get docked an hours pay for every minute over.
Moist sounds like one of those people who argue against the living wage arguing it will put up prices but earn large salaries themselves. It's good sometimes to mix with people outside of your own employment circle for that reason.

You're spot on the money Hammy, all this sh1t goes on while we are in the EU yet moist and all the other muppets go on about the benefits to workers, they mean pen pushers with cushty jobs like themselves. i openly admit I have it easy but at least I have some empathy with the kids and the unlucky ones who are being shafted.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

I trust Europe to protect basic rights (human and workers) than I do any Tory Government.

Doesn't that go to the heart of the matter though, Dick. It's relatively easy to change our national government but it seems nigh on impossible to change the direction of pan European travel.

Boundary alterations and the changes to the electoral register where 800,000, mainly young people, have disappeared make a Tory government more likely. In addition it seems that we have a naturally right wing electorate where the only chance of Labour success is to move to the right, which personally is depressing, but that's democracy.

Turn and turn about isn't it. The 2005 general election saw Tony Blair's Labour win 35.2 per cent of the popular vote, compared to 32.4 per cent for the Tories.

Despite the fact that the differences between the total votes cast for both parties were very small, Labour ended up with 355 seats while the Conservatives got just 198. That's 55 per cent compared to 30 per cent.

Being happy or aggrieved rather depends on who you voted for.

The proposed boundary changes are a reasonable start toward making the FPTP system as fair as is possible, having as similar a number of voters in each constituency cannot be anything but fair, Labour, the Welsh and Scots bitching because they lose out is a joke, the Tories and the English have been losing out for generations, an English Tory vote has been worth far less historically than a Welsh Labour vote just as inner city votes have carried far more weight than rural ones.

FPTP has issues, I like it because it anchors an MP to specific people, we need a recall option so the bad apples could be brought to book and maybe a PR portion a bit like the Sweaties and Sheep Shaggers have could be introduced to level the playing field a tad.

The FPTP system cost your Kippers several MP's. 4 million votes, 1 MP you can't be happy with that shorely?

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

In my opinion TTIP is far more likely to happen to a UK outside the EU. A divorced UK will be bound to move nearer to the USA, who are the characters who are actually driving the whole Atlantic and Pacific nightmare scenario treaties on behalf of their corporations, particularly their private health providers, who fully intend to undercut, cherry pick and loss lead NHS contracts. Once NHS staff are forced to move from the NHS to these American migrants, it will be job done.

I agree.

I sort of agree as in the motion towards TTIP has started and will continue whether in the eu or not. Our government is great at using the eu to their advantage when it suits them but has no trouble being a global force with good ok uncle Sam on our side when it suits us. It's one of the reasons I don't see the point in remaining in it.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

In my opinion TTIP is far more likely to happen to a UK outside the EU. A divorced UK will be bound to move nearer to the USA, who are the characters who are actually driving the whole Atlantic and Pacific nightmare scenario treaties on behalf of their corporations, particularly their private health providers, who fully intend to undercut, cherry pick and loss lead NHS contracts. Once NHS staff are forced to move from the NHS to these American migrants, it will be job done.

I agree.

I sort of agree as in the motion towards TTIP has started and will continue whether in the eu or not. Our government is great at using the eu to their advantage when it suits them but has no trouble being a global force with good ok uncle Sam on our side when it suits us. It's one of the reasons I don't see the point in remaining in it.

I would rather stay in the EU than become the "51st state" of the USA.

If TTIP will be as bad as being made out then believe me, it will not be accepted by the German people.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hell's teeth, £11 billion is £11 billion, the CBI is a pro EU Lobby Group, their first office was in Brussels and these figures of the benefits of membership have no basis, the EU itself said in 2008 that their regulations probably reduced the regions GDP by over 600 billion Euros.

UK manufacturing prospers while exports to the other 27 have fallen year on year for 20 years.

If you think the rapefugee issue is a long way off let your daughters or any female friends if you have any go for a night out in Cologne next NYE.

The Governments get to rubber stamp TTIP but none will be able to debate it or any other Commission ruling, that is a FACT!

Why do we allow some EU bureaucrat to tell anglers what they catch in our waters?

You insult mine and every other ATDers intelligence with your waffle, but in the death arguments for and against are all speculative, except thst we know for certain that being a member costs £11 billion a year as well as the regulations adding massively to the cost of doing business, we know for a fact that in 60 years the EU has negotiated just one free trade agreement with what could be described as a major trading nation, Korea, we sell them less than £5 billion a year and import a whole load more, we know that we run an £80 billion a year trading deficit with the other 27 and that our exports to the 27 have fallen every year for the last 20 years as a proportion of our total exports, we know that if we left none of the 27 would have any incentive to start a trade war with us, we know that the only way we could refuse entry to any of the millions of young muslim males who will soon be EU passport holders is to be out of the EU.

Unlike you I love this country and would never consider living anywhere else, these reasons are more than enough for me to think that the minimal risks of Brexit are well worth the huge potential gains.

Official figures say 320,000 EU benefits scroungers came here last year, funny thing is 650,000 Nat Ins numbers were issued to EU nationals in the same period.

Lies, damn lies and EUSSR lies.

11 billion is a drop in the ocean for governments. Tell me, where will the 11 billion go if we leave. How will Joe worker or anyone else benefit from it?

Any more detail on this prospering manufacturing? What are we manufacturing?

I live not far from Cologne so know a lot more about what it is actually like here! The problems mentioned were not to do with the geniune refugees but mainly the ones from north Africa who have claimed to be refugees. There is no way that they will get German citizenship. Some are already being sent back.

Can you provide a link to your TTIP "fact" claim?

As for being told what fish we can and not catch from our shores. What a load of rubbish. We are talking about yet another species becoming extinct. It's common sense. More should be being done!!!

So, I insult every ATDers intelligence whereas you just insult everybody!

Any links to back up your trade figures?

Yes, again, we all know that the current refugee/migrant crisis is a big issue. It could in itself bring the EU down thus saving the UK the cost of an election (more money available for Joe worker and maybe even the pensioners).

As for you never dreaming of living outside the UK, that might be a good idea as if in real life you are anything like your online persona, you wouldn't be welcome.

So, if I get this right, the EU issued conflicting figures regarding the EU nationals on benefit and NI numbers issued? Who provided the EU with the figures? Do you have a link?

I see you use the word "potential" when talking about gains after leaving the EU.

Can you post some links to back up what you say so that us "uneducated" can better understand the situation.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

In my opinion TTIP is far more likely to happen to a UK outside the EU. A divorced UK will be bound to move nearer to the USA, who are the characters who are actually driving the whole Atlantic and Pacific nightmare scenario treaties on behalf of their corporations, particularly their private health providers, who fully intend to undercut, cherry pick and loss lead NHS contracts. Once NHS staff are forced to move from the NHS to these American migrants, it will be job done.

I agree.

I sort of agree as in the motion towards TTIP has started and will continue whether in the eu or not. Our government is great at using the eu to their advantage when it suits them but has no trouble being a global force with good ok uncle Sam on our side when it suits us. It's one of the reasons I don't see the point in remaining in it.

I would rather stay in the EU than become the "51st state" of the USA.

If TTIP will be as bad as being made out then believe me, it will not be accepted by the German people.

Good song though!

Hugh Watt wrote:

The FPTP system cost your Kippers several MP's. 4 million votes, 1 MP you can't be happy with that shorely?

The game has rules Hugey, the Kippers did not do enough to convince enough people in any one constituency to vote them in, I don't count Carswell, he is a Tory turncoat, that's fair enough in my book, I don't bitch about the rules when they were perfectly clear form the start.

The 4 million votes make an excellent base for next time, if they capitalise on that then good luck to them, I didn't vote Kipper and I wouldn't until they put up a decent candidate where I live, I would love to see them burst the LibLabCon cartel wide open, more just a LabCon cartel now I suppose, I detest them all, tbf I could get behind Jihadi Jez if he was a true socialist instead of a champagne swilling, Hippo Humping, terrorist loving, surrender monkey.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

11 billion is a drop in the ocean for governments.

See straight away you make a tw@ of yourself by suggesting £11 billion isn't a load of cash and it is not the Governments money to waste.

All my figures are in the public domain and are easy to find if you actually want to look, you don't, you want to sit on your pith stained sofa in Cologne, you probably had it shipped over from Swilly, and excuse the actions of the muslim refugees. I have friends who were out in Cologne and who had kids there that night, they say the coverage didn't come close to the reality, they fear it can only get far worse and are looking to Pegida and the AfD, these are not Nazis, they are ordinary people who see their way of life being brought to a premature end.

Fortunately you don't have a vote, at least I hope not, hopefully we shall get a result and many EU countries will retaliate by throwing out foreigners like you, then you can come back here and try getting a cushy job in competition with the millions of immigrants, that'd make I larf.


Again edited by Seadog

Wikipedia descibes Singapore as once being part of Malaysia until it was expelled in 1965 for having idealogical differences.

After early years of turbulence, the nation developed rapidly as a tiger economy based on external trade and its human capital.

It goes on to say that it's now a global commercial, financial and transportation hub.

There is definitely the potential for this country to achieve a similar outcome.

Should we chose to remain then what's to say that in 50 years time the UK will no longer exist and that we will be known as State 51 of the United States of Europe.

Being independent is appealing I would say.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

11 billion is a drop in the ocean for governments.

See straight away you make a tw@ of yourself by suggesting £11 billion isn't a load of cash and it is not the Governments money to waste.

All my figures are in the public domain and are easy to find if you actually want to look, you don't, you want to sit on your pith stained sofa in Cologne, you probably had it shipped over from Swilly, and excuse the actions of the muslim rapefugees. I have friends who were out in Cologne and who had kids there that night, they say the coverage didn't come close to the reality, they fear it can only get far worse and are looking to Pegida and the AfD, these are not Nazis, they are ordinary people who see their way of life being brought to a premature end.

Fortunately you don't have a vote, at least I hope not, hopefully we shall get a result and many EU countries will retaliate by throwing out foreigners like you, then you can come back here and try getting a cushy job in competition with the millions of immigrants, that'd make I larf.

What an obnoxious person you are.

Mods - Why is this person allowed to continually post as he does? He brings nothing to this forum.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

What an obnoxious person you are.

Mods - Why is this person allowed to continually post as he does? He brings nothing to this forum.

Oh gosh I'm sorry, I didn't realise that I was supposed to just suck it when people implied I was telling lies.

There is a simple device which allows you to ignore any posters input, why not utilise that and then you might never have to face the truth again?

Moist is right though. Britain First are campaigning hard through his like. They thought UKIP was the way forward, but dumped them after the ex banker blew it.
I guess he'll disappear after this election,just like the last. Can't get rid of the guy, night after night, after a month or two's schmoozing.
Sticks out like a sore thumb. Very difficult to share any space with such stuff. The term "rapefugee", that has now been "normalised" by this character on ATD is totally unacceptable.
Do you ATD moderators view the term rapefugee as acceptable ? Yes or no.



No.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Wikipedia descibes Singapore as once being part of Malaysia until it was expelled in 1965 for having idealogical differences.

There is definitely the potential for this country to achieve a similar outcome.

Should we chose to remain then what's to say that in 50 years time the UK will no longer exist and that we will be known as State 51 of the United States of Europe.

Being independent is appealing I would say.

I believe the trouble with Singapore/Malaysia what that all the government top positions in Malaysia were jealously held by Malays in spite of the bulk of the countries wealth was being generated by it's Chinese citizens. In Singapore, the government was predominantly the wealth creating Chinese, so something had to give. Incidentally, the Prime Minister was Lee Kuan Yew a former communist terrorist who fought against the British - of course, as soon as he had a handy wedge going into the old back pocket he didn't want to be a commie anymore, in fact he used to go snorkling with British troops off Changi Creek.

Given the choice, I'd rather be independent Britain or England. However, If it had to be a choice between being an American state or Euro state i'd choose America everyday of the week.

Why not go the whole hog and sanitize to a Pasoti-level while we're at it?

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

11 billion is a drop in the ocean for governments.

See straight away you make a tw@ of yourself by suggesting £11 billion isn't a load of cash and it is not the Governments money to waste.

All my figures are in the public domain and are easy to find if you actually want to look, you don't, you want to sit on your pith stained sofa in Cologne, you probably had it shipped over from Swilly, and excuse the actions of the muslim rapefugees. I have friends who were out in Cologne and who had kids there that night, they say the coverage didn't come close to the reality, they fear it can only get far worse and are looking to Pegida and the AfD, these are not Nazis, they are ordinary people who see their way of life being brought to a premature end.

Fortunately you don't have a vote, at least I hope not, hopefully we shall get a result and many EU countries will retaliate by throwing out foreigners like you, then you can come back here and try getting a cushy job in competition with the millions of immigrants, that'd make I larf.

What an obnoxious person you are.

Mods - Why is this person allowed to continually post as he does? He brings nothing to this forum.

Can't agree with that Moist, you might not like his posting style or points of view but he does bring a fair bit to the forum IMO.