Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Lord Biro wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

When did I mention France? I was talking solely about Britain and its health service. Why not broaden the argument to food as well, how do you feel about the IS importing food to us post TTIP with growth promoters or hormones in it? What about GM food being imported also? Is that also inevitable if we don't sign up to Europe and TTIP?
I can't believe you are a supporter of TTIP?

Of course I'm not a TTIP supporter. While most have been sipping their lattes, fretting over immigration and voting once in a blue moon, I have been campaigning against the corporate menace for many years over all sort of matters. When I gave up eating animals 20 years ago, one of the main reasons was husbandry and yes, growth hormones in US shit, antibiotics in English shit. I now grow all my own veg for 10 months a year to avoid GM, glyphosphate poison and the monsanto menace. I even have to bake my own bleddy bread because of the shit farmers do, English farmers. They're not forced by Europe to cover their wheat in glyphosphate, it's their own choice. I have to avoid anything with soya in it, although it's getting more and more difficult with the gimmes to the corporates over labeling. Westminster has always pandered to these people as much as Europe, if not more. German foods/beers you name it, are far better labelled and contain far less shit. One of the reasons I shop in Lidl/Aldi.

I'm telling you, I know what I'm talking about, if you think Westminster is more likely to avoid TTIP than Europe, then you need to think again. You're reading the wrong stuff. probably put through your e-mail inbox by some Tisdale goon or other. This present UK government would sign up to US and Virgin take overs of the NHS tomorrow if it could get away with it. Oh, and they've got schools in mind as well. That's Westminster, not Europe.

Calm down dear, I think I know what I'm talking about and I haven't read any leaflets through the letterbox more war on want and associates, I have also been actively campaigning over the years although I wouldn't be classed as a "supercampaigner" by some, my bad.
The crux of the matter again is that with the EU we will get TTIP, out of Europe our government will certainly try and foist a version of it on us the difference is we can vote our lot at Westminster out, we could start a petition to have it discussed in parliament whilst in Europe we have no say and the process is carried out in secret.
Good luck with your selective diet in the future. I also have a selective diet along the same principles as you although I eat free range and organic meat as well as game, I've been doing it for over twenty years after working in an intensive poultry unit. With TTIP comes GM soya, growth hormones and steroids and more misleading packaging.

The remainers are at each others throats but still trying to look united.

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She's always been an outer imo, unfortunately she lacked the bollocks when it mattered to go against her master Camerin and fell into line.

Well, well, well. The capitalists are at it again. No surprise there then.
This time BHS. Decades after the Mirror employees were fleeced out of their pension monies, the same thing has been happening all over again, and it's all legal. Philip Green, the gonged doyen of the High St was at it, got out quick, and now the venture capitalists buy it for a £1, and a ear later, asset strip it, and feck off leaving the tax payer to pick up the 500m pension bill.  One of the goons had already been bankrupt twice. You would have thought Green would have asked a few questions, but then, he had got away with a nice pile himself. Just playing the money game . WHSmith will be the next bunch with their criminally inflated property portfolio allowing them to bleed their company dry.
Oh, and by the way, this rising failure of unfettered capitalism has nothing to do with the EU. It will continue to happen, in or out, with both UK parties in hock to the corporations over the last 40 years. It's happening all over the West where capitalists and corporate cheats are snouting the trough, in or out. Enjoy the referendum about nothing, while the real villains ruining our way of life disappear into thin air with all your money. The even bigger crunch can't be far off now

Couldn't agree more Biccy but I'm still an outer I'm afraid. Re. Lord Green he did take a £200m haircut along the way and I think he's more of an incompetent fool than a fleecer although as a billionaire his pension pot should be raided to cover the pensions he took the money off his employers for.
There is a body that is looking into the pensions side of things although it's probably made up of Greens mates.

'amster, you're just an old stick in the mud  
You need to get away from that West devon bodging set and put your feet up in France, and make some brie, while you still can without having to jump through hoops, and slip the local mayor a few euros.
The green party, who I support at any council or Westminster/EU level, articulate quite well how they support staying in the EU while being the most anti TTIP westminster party by a country mile. They detest corporate power, it's in the green DNA.
In fact much of the irritating "EU" legislation is there to stop these huge companies from taking the piss. They're continually having to update rules to stop monsanto and the likes get in through the back door. Westminster would love to get rid of all the protections and just have a wild west.
These corporations and their Westminster and media cronies have made it politically correct to slag off legislation and beaurocracy as red tape. Bull. Frustrating as it may be some times, and it always needs attention, that bureaucracy is often there to protect the little fish from the big fish. Much of our justice system put in place to stop lynchings and swingle trees is based on "bureaucracy". Much more needs to be done obviously, a whole galaxy more, and a revolution or three, but change sure as heck ain't going to come from any Cameron/Blairite UK government. They're more in cahoots than Brussels.
Here's a link. Hopefully the main media might pick up on the green party's push this week about corporate power, but I doubt it. Funny how corporate power hasn't been on the westminster agenda in this country until a significant part of the establishment decides it suits their purpose for a couple of months.

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Lord Biro wrote:

'amster, you're just an old stick in the mud  
You need to get away from that West devon bodging set and put your feet up in France, and make some brie, while you still can without having to jump through hoops, and slip the local mayor a few euros.
The green party, who I support at any council or Westminster/EU level, articulate quite well how they support staying in the EU while being the most anti TTIP westminster party by a country mile. They detest corporate power, it's in the green DNA.
In fact much of the irritating "EU" legislation is there to stop these huge companies from taking the piss. They're continually having to update rules to stop monsanto and the likes get in through the back door. Westminster would love to get rid of all the protections and just have a wild west.
These corporations and their Westminster and media cronies have made it politically correct to slag off legislation and beaurocracy as red tape. Bull. Frustrating as it may be some times, and it always needs attention, that bureaucracy is often there to protect the little fish from the big fish. Much of our justice system put in place to stop lynchings and swingle trees is based on "bureaucracy". Much more needs to be done obviously, a whole galaxy more, and a revolution or three, but change sure as heck ain't going to come from any Cameron/Blairite UK government. They're more in cahoots than Brussels.

If what you say(keep saying) is true why are Camerin, his cronies and the majority the 'establishment' so keen on remaining?

Gradually coming to the realisation that in or out, the average person will get stuffed. Under a Labour or Tory government.

Les Miserable wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

'amster, you're just an old stick in the mud  
You need to get away from that West devon bodging set and put your feet up in France, and make some brie, while you still can without having to jump through hoops, and slip the local mayor a few euros.
The green party, who I support at any council or Westminster/EU level, articulate quite well how they support staying in the EU while being the most anti TTIP westminster party by a country mile. They detest corporate power, it's in the green DNA.
In fact much of the irritating "EU" legislation is there to stop these huge companies from taking the piss. They're continually having to update rules to stop monsanto and the likes get in through the back door. Westminster would love to get rid of all the protections and just have a wild west.
These corporations and their Westminster and media cronies have made it politically correct to slag off legislation and beaurocracy as red tape. Bull. Frustrating as it may be some times, and it always needs attention, that bureaucracy is often there to protect the little fish from the big fish. Much of our justice system put in place to stop lynchings and swingle trees is based on "bureaucracy". Much more needs to be done obviously, a whole galaxy more, and a revolution or three, but change sure as heck ain't going to come from any Cameron/Blairite UK government. They're more in cahoots than Brussels.

If what you say(keep saying) is true why are Camerin, his cronies and the majority the 'establishment' so keen on remaining?

Wheels within wheels, did you see the photo of Obama, Cameron and Merkel all trying to unstick the wheels of TTIP the other day? Plotting more than Guy Fawkes.
As for Biccy and his Green party manifesto I again share a lot of ideals with them as a group/party but Europe is not one of them. It's unaccountable, unelected and it's dysfunctional. Wait until Montenegro, Albania and Turkey join the low wage economy will boom. We've fought for years to have a living wage (something I've actively campaigned for) and we will replace it with a black market economy paying feck all. True it's supported by the Blairite/Cameron alliance but I'm no part of that and that's something we should all be actively campaigning against as well. More chance of changing stuff nearer to home than on a European level or global level especially as we don't get a vote on what goes on in Europe, that's why Cameron loves it so much. It's easier for him to implement his capitalist dream via the back door of Europe than via Westminster with those pesky left wingers mouthing off all the time.
As for bailing out of West Devon I don't want to, I travel widely and can see no reason why in or out the French wouldn't want me and my Euros being spent there when I decide to visit although Aisa is more appealing to me these days, with my money I can swan around there like an old Etonian and leave the cheese making to others, anyway I need some lunch where the fook has my butler gone now?

Don't forget the Ukraine as well.

Amsterdamage wrote:

with my money I can swan around there like an old Etonian and leave the cheese making to others,

There's one thing you haven't taken into consideration, amster.  Blessed are the cheese makers.

Lord Biro wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

with my money I can swan around there like an old Etonian and leave the cheese making to others,

There's one thing you haven't taken into consideration, amster.  Blessed are the cheese makers.

But I can afford more cheese than the cheese makers making me more blessed than they shorely?

Lord Biro wrote:

Well, well, well. The capitalists are at it again. No surprise there then.
This time BHS. Decades after the Mirror employees were fleeced out of their pension monies, the same thing has been happening all over again, and it's all legal. Philip Green, the gonged doyen of the High St was at it, got out quick, and now the venture capitalists buy it for a £1, and a ear later, asset strip it, and feck off leaving the tax payer to pick up the 500m pension bill.  One of the goons had already been bankrupt twice. You would have thought Green would have asked a few questions, but then, he had got away with a nice pile himself. Just playing the money game . WHSmith will be the next bunch with their criminally inflated property portfolio allowing them to bleed their company dry.
Oh, and by the way, this rising failure of unfettered capitalism has nothing to do with the EU. It will continue to happen, in or out, with both UK parties in hock to the corporations over the last 40 years. It's happening all over the West where capitalists and corporate cheats are snouting the trough, in or out. Enjoy the referendum about nothing, while the real villains ruining our way of life disappear into thin air with all your money. The even bigger crunch can't be far off now

So very true, dear boy.

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Lord Biro wrote:

The West is the West is the West. It's protected by the US. That's the hard facts.
I don't know where you get your ideas from 'amster, but there is more likelihood of avoiding TTIP, if the UK stays within Europe. A brexit will almost certainly deliver the whole country on a plate as the 51st state.
This country will get what's coming to it. Basically it is run by a bunch of corporate lackeys, in or out, makes little difference.

Ee's right y'know !

On the vote...............bookies are very rarely wrong, especially in a two horse race of this nature.

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Tringreen wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The West is the West is the West. It's protected by the US. That's the hard facts.
I don't know where you get your ideas from 'amster, but there is more likelihood of avoiding TTIP, if the UK stays within Europe. A brexit will almost certainly deliver the whole country on a plate as the 51st state.
This country will get what's coming to it. Basically it is run by a bunch of corporate lackeys, in or out, makes little difference.

Ee's right y'know !

I still hold out hope we can reclaim our country from the Tory establishment scum even the ones posing as Labour, fact is the further we get into Europe the less say we have about anything, why do you think Cameron is so into it? Because he's going to lose some power? Have a word with yourself.

I'm sure the levels of fines we pay to Europe would be much worse out,

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Tringreen wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The West is the West is the West. It's protected by the US. That's the hard facts.
I don't know where you get your ideas from 'amster, but there is more likelihood of avoiding TTIP, if the UK stays within Europe. A brexit will almost certainly deliver the whole country on a plate as the 51st state.
This country will get what's coming to it. Basically it is run by a bunch of corporate lackeys, in or out, makes little difference.

Ee's right y'know !

On the vote...............bookies are very rarely wrong, especially in a two horse race of this nature.

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Sadly, you're probably right. The chicken hearts and easily influenced younger element will have been either bullied into remaining via the ugly scare stories emanating from the government, big business et al or swooning at the fact that Obama has poked his nose in. If the vote does turn out to remain.i just hope it isn't seen as a fecking great destructive [in more ways than one] mistake in a few years time.

Greenskin wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The West is the West is the West. It's protected by the US. That's the hard facts.
I don't know where you get your ideas from 'amster, but there is more likelihood of avoiding TTIP, if the UK stays within Europe. A brexit will almost certainly deliver the whole country on a plate as the 51st state.
This country will get what's coming to it. Basically it is run by a bunch of corporate lackeys, in or out, makes little difference.

Ee's right y'know !

On the vote...............bookies are very rarely wrong, especially in a two horse race of this nature.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sadly, you're probably right. The chicken hearts and easily influenced younger element will have been either bullied into remaining via the ugly scare stories emanating from the government, big business et al or swooning at the fact that Obama has poked his nose in. If the vote does turn out to remain.i just hope it isn't seen as a fecking great destructive [in more ways than one] mistake in a few years time.

Europe is failing and they are trying to fix it by making it bigger. It will become a bigger feck up that's all. We were all told that not joining the Euro was a mistake.

Greenskin wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

The West is the West is the West. It's protected by the US. That's the hard facts.
I don't know where you get your ideas from 'amster, but there is more likelihood of avoiding TTIP, if the UK stays within Europe. A brexit will almost certainly deliver the whole country on a plate as the 51st state.
This country will get what's coming to it. Basically it is run by a bunch of corporate lackeys, in or out, makes little difference.

Ee's right y'know !

On the vote...............bookies are very rarely wrong, especially in a two horse race of this nature.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sadly, you're probably right. The chicken hearts and easily influenced younger element will have been either bullied into remaining via the ugly scare stories emanating from the government, big business et al or swooning at the fact that Obama has poked his nose in. If the vote does turn out to remain.i just hope it isn't seen as a fecking great destructive [in more ways than one] mistake in a few years time.

I still can't make up my mind on this one. I hate that, as I'm happy when I believe fervently in something and can crusade.
I don't see much changing politically if we leave. Workers' rights/unions will probably be diminished further in a UK out of Europe, led by that buffoon Boris and his chums. Scotland will leave the Union too.
Personally, living some of the time in Europe will become more difficult and the £ will almost certainly take a big hit if we leave but I tend to put the bigger picture before personal circumstance.

What I'm looking for is a democratic socialist rising across the western world to provide equal opportunities and to get to grips with the wealthy elite. Force them to contribute to the greater good of all of us, rather than hoard trillions and use their wealth to buy governments, who in turn destroy workers' rights and welfare states to provide an uneducated and desperate workforce.

Bernie in the States and Jezza here, give me hope that the tables are starting to turn.

In 5-10 years time politics across Europe will have changed with more nationalist/populist governments being voted in. Although currently unimaginable I think the eventual break up of the EU is inevitable.

Oh dear. I think the wheels have fallen off. No coming back now. A hopeless case made by the brexiteers overall. Very poor. I could have done better. A bit strange all the different groups on the xit campaign. Weird. They just had nothing in the locker. It was always a case of xenophobia, and that was always bound to fail, if needing a majority of voters in today's world.

BBC wrote:

Just hours before Vote Leave released the letter, UKIP leader Nigel Farage - also a supporter of EU exit - warned the campaign group they risked losing the referendum unless the terms of debate were shifted from the economy to immigration.