General Election Countdown who is going to win

Hugh Watt wrote:

There is no such thing as the 'British Parliament' FFS. The Parliament of the United Kingdom can in theory veto such decisions if it doesnt agree with them

This would be fine were it not for the fact that Labour, The Conservatives, The Liberals and UKIP all agree with it in principal. If you think that leaving the EU would stop this going ahead then you are clueless and deluded.

God but you're a dumb shit, if the EU Commission, not directly elected bureaucrats making ten times what you would if you could get a job that wasn't being done by an immigrant, sign up to TTIP there is sweet fook all Parliament can do about it, that, and that alone would, in the absence of the decent number of reasonable other reasons, be more than enough to make any thinking person vote UKIP, the thinking caveat abrogates you from any resposibility.

Iggy wrote:

Electorate in the dark about planned cuts, lol. More worried bitching about a man who will get about ten seats in parliament if he's lucky.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Does your head in dunnit?

It's like five fleas arguing over whether the dog they live on should eat Kennomeat or Pedigree Chum, the economy will do what the market drives it to do, governments in this country make very little difference, for all the rhetoric suggesting some of them are left wing none would introduce anything radically different from the others, Sturgeon talks the talk but the SNP in Scotland panders to the middle classes like all the others.

Me. I think we should be better off with no government at all, Belgium did just fine without one, all they do is feck shiite up and cost us punters money, we could go with the laws we have got, there are plenty enough of them, cut the wages of all public employees making more then £50k by 10% a year until they reach the maximum allowable, which would be £50k plus inflation from today.

Nothing would go badly wrong, we should not get into any more stupid wars which are feck all to do with us, there would be no exodus of geniuses to foreign shores as if you are working in the public sector you are not a genius, few exceptions for brain surgeons and organ transplanters, just the obvious stuff, but no pen pushers or desk jockeys.

Czarcasm wrote:

Does Australia, with its immigration policy and strict points system for entry, manage to get by economically?

Also, are they generally regarded as the Scum of the earth for perceived lack of empathy on refugees landing on their shores?

And do they care?

Plenty do, lefty Strines are usually ready to bitch about Abbott, his heartless immigration policy and his totally unforgivable climat change denial.

Try forming proper sentences before questioning someones intelligence eh. Give the above an edit and I might bother to read it.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Try forming proper sentences before questioning someones intelligence eh. Give the above an edit and I might bother to read it.

Try learning to read, HugeTwot is about right as a monicker for you.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Try forming proper sentences before questioning someones intelligence eh. Give the above an edit and I might bother to read it.

Try learning to read, HugeTwot is about right as a monicker for you.

Do you ever wonder if people would have more respect for you if you weren't such a monumental bell end all the time?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Tony Blair, a Lefty hero.  You are truly clueless.

Lefty wankers voted for him three times, moron.

Suuure Blair is a real left wing firebrand.  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Also in case it escaped you, Blair won a landslide in 1997 and again in 2001 so as hardly a result of 'lefty wankers' as you cuntishly describe them. Clueless and offensive..

Blair got elected by Labour voting crunts, thick as fork lefties who voted Labour even though he was more right wing than Thatcher because yer lefty voter is generally too fooking thick to make a rational choice, stick a red rosette on a pig and it would still get elected in Plimuff or Sedgefield, thick feckers can't help themselves.

Even after he went out and started his illegal wars the thick tw@s still turned out to put an X in the box, shame we never made being able to spell your name a prerequisite to vote, Labour would never have got in.

I don't know where to start....

How your profile Labour voter  wasn't enough to defeat Margaret Thatcher in in the previous 4 elections then?

Aren't the Liberals a left leaning party too, isn't that a choice?
Also come to that, the Exeter has returned a Labour MP since 1997. Explain that then...

I know quite a few Labour supporters, voters and activists, and can't think of a single one who actually respects Tony Blair.

Paven wrote:

Do you ever wonder if people would have more respect for you if you weren't such a monumental bell end all the time?

Do you ever consider the possibility that I couldn't give a shiite what anybody thinks?

As it happens there are a few posters on here worth the time and trouble, Huge most certainly isn't one of them, but I have this affliction which causes me to fight bell endery with bell endery.

Besides which I would contend that that I am not a "monumental bell end all the time", just 90% of it.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Paven wrote:

Do you ever wonder if people would have more respect for you if you weren't such a monumental bell end all the time?

Do you ever consider the possibility that I couldn't give a shiite what anybody thinks?

As it happens there are a few posters on here worth the time and trouble, Huge most certainly isn't one of them, but I have this affliction which causes me to fight bell endery with bell endery.

Besides which I would contend that that I am not a "monumental bell end all the time", just 90% of it.

As part of your latest fight against "bellendery"perhaps you might explain why Exeter keeps returning a Labout MP?

I have the occasional need to deal with Pseudo-Intellects spouting Cabbie Driver wisdom. More so when their grasp of English is so shockingly bad.

Dam the SNP and wee jimmy Krankie

The SNP aren't for me either. I agree with them about a lot of things (Trident in particular), but nationalism is no good to anyone, whether it's Sturgeon, Salmond or Wood on the left, or Farage, Le Pen or anyone else on the right.  Some good Labour MPs are going to lose their seats because of this contagious mass hysteria that seems to have infected half of Scotland.  Again, I'm no great fan of the Labour Party, but is it really so treasonous to argue that the UK should remain united?

Can't see that particular Union lasting much longer, especially if the English are daft enough to vote to leave the EU and the Tories push through their bodged West Lothian reforms.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Paven wrote:

Do you ever wonder if people would have more respect for you if you weren't such a monumental bell end all the time?

Do you ever consider the possibility that I couldn't give a shiite what anybody thinks?

As it happens there are a few posters on here worth the time and trouble, Huge most certainly isn't one of them, but I have this affliction which causes me to fight bell endery with bell endery.

Besides which I would contend that that I am not a "monumental bell end all the time", just 90% of it.

As part of your latest fight against "bellendery"perhaps you might explain why Exeter keeps returning a Labout MP?  

I can't be sure, but I'd imagine it's either the fault of the European Commission or Paul Tisdale. If only Saint Nigel of Farage, peace be upon Him, would bless Exeter with His presence.

The SNP are irrevelant as far has voting in England goes.....only voters north of the border can vote for them......so they are not a UK party...just Scottish....so therefore should not be on national TV.......the same for Welsh/NI local partys.

zyph wrote:

The SNP are irrevelant as far has voting in England goes.....only voters north of the border can vote for them......so they are not a UK party...just Scottish....so therefore should not be on national TV.......the same for Welsh/NI local partys.

Fair enough, but now that Scotland seems to be a one-party state, SNP MPs will be the third-largest grouping in Westminster. So I think it's important that we do hear from them.

We need no more info on what Scotland want......although less than 50% voted for seperation.....the majority in Scotland our spread over more traditional partys so do not have a single voice..........the SNP have made it clear for several years what they want....independance and no Trident.........fair enough they don't need national TV debate to tell us.....we've got the message loud and clear......so no national TV required for a seperatist party.

Cornish Chris wrote:

zyph wrote:

The SNP are irrevelant as far has voting in England goes.....only voters north of the border can vote for them......so they are not a UK party...just Scottish....so therefore should not be on national TV.......the same for Welsh/NI local partys.

Fair enough, but now that Scotland seems to be a one-party state, SNP MPs will be the third-largest grouping in Westminster. So I think it's important that we do hear from them.

Absolutely, they've suffered at the hands of plenty of Conservative governments of which they did not vote in - not particularly democratic. The rise in popularity of the SNP pre-referendum was born out of this frustration, they don't want the Eton toffs in Westminster dictating Scotland. Its a similar angst that many on the right seem to feel, with a fear of the SNP coming in and controlling English politics. The continuing rise of the SNP post-referendum in the build up to this election largely comes from frustrated no voters immediately seeing Westminster turn its back on all the promises made to encourage the no vote.

Zyph, if you got rid of the more "irrelevant" parties from the TV debates, then you'd just have Ed Miliband talking to himself as Cameron is clearly disinterested in addressing the nation - maybe more out of fear of being made an idiot, as exemplified in his recent Radio 1 Q&A. Personally I find the SNP and Plaid Cymru's involvement in the debates very interesting - they challenge the main parties and Sturgeon at least addresses UK wide issues not exclusively Scottish ones. The same goes for why its good to have the Greens and even UKIP involved in the debates, even though I personally detest the latter - they're still evidently a relevant voice.

I never did like greens when I was a kid.......nothings changed.


PS.......just realized what I've said........Argyle is the exception of course.

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

Its seems some are having difficulty in realising that we haven't been a serious global player in a long time. We no longer manufacture anything, we have no natural resources, our armed forces have been seriously diminished all the country has left is a useful place for money to pass through thanks to our extremely lax financial regulations.

Its all very wanting to leave the EU but what exactly happens once we've left. How do we renegotiate all the trade agreements with China and the US, what bargaining power do we have??

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

anyone want to give the gist of this? i havent got time to read a manuscript

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

anyone want to give the gist of this? i havent got time to read a manuscript

Basically SFD is saying that after months of careful scrutiny and deliberation he sees no other option than to vote for UKIP.

Les Miserable wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

anyone want to give the gist of this? i havent got time to read a manuscript

Basically SFD is saying that after months of careful scrutiny and deliberation he sees no other option than to vote for UKIP.

Person Of Interest wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

anyone want to give the gist of this? i havent got time to read a manuscript

Basically SFD is saying that after months of careful scrutiny and deliberation he sees no other option than to vote for UKIP.

Les Miserable wrote:

Angry wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The referendum showed that the Scottish people are firmly in favour of remaining British so why are the SNP so successful given that separatism is absolutely core to everything they want?

I think it is because political parties in the UK have all shifted miles to the right. UKIP are now basically treading the same ground, using much of the same language and espousing many of the same policies that the far right once did. UKIP truly is the BNP in blazers.

Barely to the left of them lie the Tories. The Tory party has shifted miles to the right. The old notion of One Nation Toryism is dead. All we are left with now is a raft of policies that are far to the right of Mrs Thatcher's Tories - and she was seen as hard right in her day. There is little or no difference between the Tory's lunatic backbenchers and UKIP. Farage even used to belong to the Conservative party; both of their MPs were elected as Tories. Cameron, and any other leader they might have, walks a constant tightrope risking being 86ed by his eurosceptic backbenchers (or "bastards" as John Major once called them). The right of the Tory Party despises Cameron with a vicious passion and Ken Clarke, once seen as a fairly hard rightish Chancellor now sits on the left of the Party. It's amazing that they didn't implode ages ago.

Next up the Lib Dems. One glance at their rarely mentioned Orange Book, published before the last election, shows exactly how tough the onslaught on public spending, and hence services, has been for them. Which, in case you've not joined the dots, is not at all. It hasn't been hard for them to back the Tory economic vision such as it is. Danny Alexander, Nick Clegg  and David Laws could all easily take the Tory whip without even thinking twice about it.

It makes me chuckle when people sneer at the modern Labour Party for being leftist or socialist. Those days are long gone. You only have to look at Polly Toynbee in the Guardian, who seems to be something of a political firebrand these days, and the responses her columns get for being extremist, hard left or whatever. Toynbee was a leading light in the centrist (for the time) SDP back along but now she is well left of the modern Labour Party. And Tony Blair was a lefty socialist hero? Don't be silly. If you really believe that then you're plain bonkers and there's no point in trying to reason with you.

Which is where, in Scotland, the SNP come in. The Scots have been rejecting Toryism for about 40 years now to the extent that there's now more giant pandas in Scotland than there is Tory MPs. (That one always makes me chuckle.) So the SNP has embraced much of the leftist rhetoric, spouted a bit of Keynsian economics, resisted the iniquities of University tuition fees, prescription charges and much more besides. Essentially they have filled the gap left by the Labour Party's lurch to the right - as they have had to because as "Tartan Tories" they would have been unelectable themselves.

And fill it extremely effectively they have. So much so that nearly every left-leaning ex-Labourite has jumped ship and joined them robbing the Labour Party in Scotland of any chance of winning back the ground they have lost all exemplified by the SLP's recent election of Jimmy Murphy, the most Blairite of all the Blairites, for their leader. That infers that the rest of the SLP actually thinks like and agrees with him and wants him as a leader which tells you all you need to know about the SLP's rank and file.

So the Scots will vote in huge number for the SNP and care little for the effect it might have on Westminster because over the years Westmister has shown scant regard for them (something we in the Westcountry can easily sympathise with) but when it comes down to it vote SNP for the populist lefty bits and not for the separatist bit as evidenced by the clear rejection of of Yes in the referendum.

A much more serious threat to the union is the constant raging against the EU and the possibility that we might leave. How could a referendum in which the Scots (and probably the Welsh and NIish too) vote to stay in the EU but are forced to leave it by the weight of English votes? It'd be a delicious irony if the United Kingdom Independence Party actually wrecked the United Kingdom even if it would be a socio-politico-economic failure.

Not that I think that will happen because I firmly expect us to reject the idea of leaving the EU - just like the Scots rejected leaving the union.

anyone want to give the gist of this? i havent got time to read a manuscript

Basically SFD is saying that after months of careful scrutiny and deliberation he sees no other option than to vote for UKIP.

cheers les, turn up for the books that one