Accelerated staff payments ... possible scandal ?

"This site has gained people as a direct response to the behaviour on pasoti."

That is certainly why I have joined up.

Mark Pedlar wrote:

GOB wrote:

That's a shame Mark, you have plenty to say regarding the trust so why not join, or are you hoping to other avenues will be opened for you?

When someone is so vocal it's always good to see them join up to a recognised, grounded and fair establishment. I would have imagined the Trust would have been perfect for you to air your views?

I have had little to say about the trust... other avenues?? Whooshed me there I'm afraid!

I'm not ready for the cardigans! All the clever people have left the Trust - can't see it going anywhere now. Can you - honestly?

I think there's so many "if's" and "maybe's" and "what if's" to be played out yet, as well as the progress of the club that will define the progress of the Trust.

I strongly hope the Trust continues to exist, yes, it maybe needed one day. If that day comes then it'll be prepared and ready, but I really don't think the Trust should be Internet related for the obvious reasons.





Funnyman, 100% correct!

Mark Pedlar wrote:

GOB wrote:

That's a shame Mark, you have plenty to say regarding the trust so why not join, or are you hoping to other avenues will be opened for you?

When someone is so vocal it's always good to see them join up to a recognised, grounded and fair establishment. I would have imagined the Trust would have been perfect for you to air your views?

I have had little to say about the trust... other avenues?? Whooshed me there I'm afraid!

I'm not ready for the cardigans! All the clever people have left the Trust - can't see it going anywhere now. Can you - honestly?

Very true Mark, and yes, I also don't see the point of a Trust if it isn't going to be a game changer. It was corralled early on and kept under strict supervision. Seems like it's gone into caretaker mode. When you see people jumping ship, it's usually sinking.
I do like the latest food collection, and the stall at HP, and Wozzer's approach is refreshingly without ego, but it's all a bit late and the ship has sailed barring one seat of 7 or 8 for the top man in whatever Fans' committee ends up being formed.

I think that will make it a better Trust though Pirate, without the egos to nurse and interference from non interested external parties it will slowly over time become a decent and proper Fans Trust that if needed can be called upon.

all professional clubs need a trust and the vast majority including the likes of arsenal, Chelsea, man utd, man city, Liverpool to name a few do. I dont agree or accept the reasons given for us not to continue having one because the club has been bought and a few in command jumped ship quicker than a rabbits hop to go work for the club leaving the trust with elections for its 4th leader in under a year.

in order for fans from all walks of life to have an independent non bias voice in regards to situations concerning pafc then a trust is needed to do that.

When the elections are done whoever becomes leader needs to put in a plan of action that sees the trust grow and continue to rebuild relationships broken by the club.

Chris Webb wrote:

GOB wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

As an observer, it would appear to me that certain people, who have been awarded various badges of distinction by the much revered 'James Brent', for services rendered [past, present and future], understand fully what their roles are.

Trouble is, not all Argyle fans are as thick as Brent clearly believes them to be.

His supposed 'influential ones', will and are being found out.

Haha, read the threads Tringy. Take out the usual ATD suspects and people have seen straight through the nasty nature of Penzance Pirate, Rickler, Gob and co.

The very site set up to offer an alternative voice is on the brink of killing itself....

Jesus Chris, read back the comments you have written on here then tells us you're a worthy President. Grow up for Christ sake.

Others judge me not myself GOB.

I do what I think is right by the standards and beliefs I hold myself.

You may want to heed your own advice.

Off to watch a movie.

Hopefully tomorrow everyone will start to realise that reasoned debate will see us all working together for the right result - Argyle.

Today has exposed the methods of a few posters on this site (you included) and the majority of Argyle supporters want nothing to do with it.

Do you realise what a newbie you sound?

Reasoned debate, where?. You sure has hell give this site no credit for such a debate to take place.

Shall we talk about 'methods'?. Which methods?

I signed up to PASOTI in 2005, I've seen nothing but stifled debate, censorship and downright bullying since then. Reasoned debate simply doesn't exist. Any call for 'team investment' was shouted down with the 'spending £ms we dont have' chestnut, yet how much was wasted on the failed P2, the unnecessary freehold purchase or the resulting loss making concerts?. The PASOTI faithful would make such statements as "put your money where your mouth is", guess what, they did, yet they were still shouted down and silenced! I'm not gonna even bother with the recent episodes on PASOTIland as I do believe you're intelligent enough to already know what is going on.

If you were aware of any of the above I find it hard to believe you would preserve your present stance.

You Sir, are somebody we need to watch very carefully (and that's being polite).

All Argo fans have every right to be suspicious of you. You do or say nothing which convince

I would like to congratulate funnyman for being a very clever man on this thread. Wise, articulate, composed, cool, tall, intelligent, non-smiting and collected. (Not funny though, potench name change?).

I also think that Charlie Wood on Pasoti was very right to point out the measured and calm responses of the GT's thus far, a very refreshing way of answering queries, in contrast to the 'blown top' method taken by, ahem, a couple of others. I look forward to their statement tomo!

Sorry for typos, I was handling animals on the most dangerous continent in the world earlier and was on the bus yesterday too.

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I also think that Charlie Wood on Pasoti was very right to point out the measured and calm responses of the GT's thus far, a very refreshing way of answering queries, in contrast to the 'blown top' method taken by, ahem, a couple of others. I look forward to their statement tomo!

I would go along with that. The green Taverners have been measured and quite candid, especially when they admitted these donations for accelerated payments may well save James Brent money. A good example of how to engage with fans when difficult questions are being asked.

Coxside_Green wrote:

I signed up to PASOTI in 2005, I've seen nothing but stifled debate, censorship and downright bullying since then. Reasoned debate simply doesn't exist. Any call for 'team investment' was shouted down with the 'spending £ms we dont have' chestnut, yet how much was wasted on the failed P2, the unnecessary freehold purchase or the resulting loss making concerts?. The PASOTI faithful would make such statements as "put your money where your mouth is", guess what, they did, yet they were still shouted down and silenced! I'm not gonna even bother with the recent episodes on PASOTIland as I do believe you're intelligent enough to already know what is going on.

Rather than respond to the details of your post CG, which of course I can't agree with, and the abuse of Chris which I think is un-necessary, I'd like to comment on the overall position with regard to ATD and PASOTI.

I'd view internet support and opinion on Argyle being like a dart-board with people in the centre having "mainstream" views: support the Trust, go to games when they can, generally supportive of the new board, accept what they read in the papers, etc. If you then assume that towards the double 3 are those that do all they can for the club and blindly accept the new board, towards the double 6 are those that broadly support the new board but want money spent on the team, towards the 11 are those who are unsure of the board but are happy that we survive by living within our means, and towards the double top are those who are conspiracy theorists, unsure of the board and the route being taken.

The more your views are towards an extreme the more you feel that your views are being quashed by the many. It can happen at all extremes. Now in my view PASOTI sits close to the treble 3 but towards the centre of it. ATD sits between double and treble 12 but more towards the double. As a poster Chris sits at double 3, CG sits at double 1 - Chris feels persecuted and unable to get his point across here and CH the opposite on PASOTI. Personally I think my views are at treble 10 but I imagine that everyone would view that their opinion is and should be Bull (the analogy doesnt look so good now!!).

Anyway - the main point to get across is that apart from a few who are off the board, we are all Argyle supporters our collective problem is a degree of tolerance.

Mark Pedlar wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

I signed up to PASOTI in 2005, I've seen nothing but stifled debate, censorship and downright bullying since then. Reasoned debate simply doesn't exist. Any call for 'team investment' was shouted down with the 'spending £ms we dont have' chestnut, yet how much was wasted on the failed P2, the unnecessary freehold purchase or the resulting loss making concerts?. The PASOTI faithful would make such statements as "put your money where your mouth is", guess what, they did, yet they were still shouted down and silenced! I'm not gonna even bother with the recent episodes on PASOTIland as I do believe you're intelligent enough to already know what is going on.

Rather than respond to the details of your post CG, which of course I can't agree with, and the abuse of Chris which I think is un-necessary, I'd like to comment on the overall position with regard to ATD and PASOTI.

I'd view internet support and opinion on Argyle being like a dart-board with people in the centre having "mainstream" views: support the Trust, go to games when they can, generally supportive of the new board, accept what they read in the papers, etc. If you then assume that towards the double 3 are those that do all they can for the club and blindly accept the new board, towards the double 6 are those that broadly support the new board but want money spent on the team, towards the 11 are those who are unsure of the board but are happy that we survive by living within our means, and towards the double top are those who are conspiracy theorists, unsure of the board and the route being taken.

The more your views are towards an extreme the more you feel that your views are being quashed by the many. It can happen at all extremes. Now in my view PASOTI sits close to the treble 3 but towards the centre of it. ATD sits between double and treble 12 but more towards the double. As a poster Chris sits at double 3, CG sits at double 1 - Chris feels persecuted and unable to get his point across here and CH the opposite on PASOTI. Personally I think my views are at treble 10 but I imagine that everyone would view that their opinion is and should be Bull (the analogy doesnt look so good now!!).

Anyway - the main point to get across is that apart from a few who are off the board, we are all Argyle supporters our collective problem is a degree of tolerance.

Gotta be said, a great analogy.

Good post Mark, but I am off to get a dartboard to see the finer details

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Good post Mark, but I am off to get a dartboard to see the finer details

Put "dartboard" into your browser - I had to!!

Love the analogy! Is it copyrighted? I'll never get a chance to use it nowadays but who knows.....

But, to play with the analogy, it is hard to avoid the impression that the owner of the dartboard is a small coterie lead by IJN. There are pubs where you are not welcome unless you're a regular. Pasoti feels like that at the moment. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to post that on there without a group circling around me asking why I'm not playing with tungstens or using different flights and scorning me for doing so. The fact that I'm hitting the target, hoping to enjoy the game, winning some, losing some is irrelevant. I have to play how they play and throw the games when I play important people. That's what it feels like.

I see green_for_life has just been banned. Who next, in the increasing clamour to lynch witches who dare to question? (And if that is overblown - sorry, but it is quite ridiculous).


Edited to add: I am quite certain that DAZ changed his post from "You are banned" to "I am recommending to the other mods that you are banned". An important change! However, peace seems to have broken out. Whole threads have been deleted in a gesture of reconciliation. Maybe Tring's olive branch is being reciprocated. Let's hope so.

A good analogy in general Mark.

However, you have missed one of the essential features of the fall out and why the war of words, often on a personal level, is so destructive to the collective Argyle family.

Those of us who saw in advance that the 'Trust in Stapes' mantra would end in tears , were persecuted and removed from Pasoti with great relish. Whether you accept it or not, one individual is the unrelenting mouthpiece of Pasoti and will never accept a broad church approach. As GOB says, those who continually speak their mind on club issues and don't toe the approved line are 'one trick ponies', 'too much hassle' etc.

I accept responsibility for a lot of the resultant bad feeling and name calling, through my Animal Farm and Aviva boy type comments but it didn't and doesn't have to be that way.

Recently there was a 64 page thread on Exeweb of all places, where the main Argyle protagonists slugged it out, much to the amusement of the Exewebbers. It culminated in me offering a couple of heartfelt missives, followed by an olive branch, which was almost unanimously rejected in a Pasoti mod vote. In their reponse they stated that Pasoti is not democratic and because of the 'history', we don't want anything to do with you lot. Now, I am as stubborn as Ian Newell but I was willing to open a new chapter, he wasn't.
It is all very well Chris coming on here defending his buddy but he seems cut from the same stone. There is zero tolerance of alternative views and as a result, the sparks fly.

If you can be arsed to read any of that thread, it does encapsulate the problem. Even the Exewebbers get involved.
Porkus is Ian Newell and I believed TGRS babies to be Webby but he has denied that suggestion.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

For there to be any sort of end to the bad feeling, the Pasoti power base has to stop its seek and destroy policy towards anyone who does not agree with their thinking.
If that can be achieved and they enjoy majority support, there is no reason why we can't agree to disagree without escalating unpleasantness.
I really don't know why Chris comes on here, other than to try to turn other posters against the handful of troublemakers he claims some of us to be and again, silence all dissenting voices. Is that how unions are run these days ? They seem to want total control of everything Argyle, including hearts and minds.

This has turned into a reasoned debate, we should do our best to retain that.

The problem I have with it Mark, is that there’s no mentions of the guy that takes 3 steps closer to the dartboard to throw his darts and when that happens it gets the backs up of those still waiting in line to throw and, when they complain they are removed from the game. After that, those that have been removed stand at the back screaming “Cheat, Cheat”!

I read your post on Pasoti Mark and it’s exactly what gets some people’s backs up because it’s simply not correct.

Do we check for previously banned posters? Yes we do. – Well if you do then I would be surprised. Did you know that the “Derek” you have me down as, is not me? So how well are you checking your IP’s?

Are we right in doing so? Yep too dammed right! – Of course

Have we ever banned anyone for having a different opinion? No. – Let’s look at that from a different angle, do you allow individual moderators to make the decision to allow banned posters to return to Pasoti if the Pasoti moderator is happy they will tow HIS line? Because that’s what happened to me and I KNOW there are others on Pasoti as I type that cannot air their views for fear of a banning under the "Previously banned user" farce! Maybe it was just coincidence, but when I disagreed with his friend (as per my signature on here) I was once again, banned!

Would we? Of course not, unless that person’s opinion contravened the rules of PASOTI – Maybe not you personally Mark but it certainly seems like at least two of your colleagues are!

Mark, I am not aware of any reason why I should have an axe with you, or most of your Mod team on Pasoti, and believe it or not, I don’t. I’m not even sure that some of you are aware of what certain individuals have been up to, but when there’s unfairness and injustice people like the characters on ATD don’t just lay down and take it, we scream it from the rooftops as we have been doing and, as we will continue to do until the issues are resolved, or they are not.

There’s no way in hell that I will allow those involved in this unfairness a free ticket without shouting and screaming about it. If Pasoti wants to claim representation then it MUST be on the back of fairness for all and not just those that fit the criteria of one or two individuals.

Tell me Mark, considering the above, how would you feel if one of the Moderators on ATD gained access to Pasoti Admin and posted foul language, read members pm’s, gained access to private, personal and possibly financial information and then closed Pasoti? – Well that’s what happened to our old site, as I am 100% sure you are aware, and you expect us to keep quiet about it and stand back and watch the darts match from outside of the pub?

I could also mention the Pasoti Trust Forum but I’ll leave that for another time.

I know these maybe difficult issues for you to tackle because of the power distribution, but let’s face it, we aren’t going anywhere and we aren’t going to keep quiet about it. You have a self confessed antagonist amongst you, until that problem is resolved it will continue to be brought to the surface and many of us will continue to shout about it.

As you say though Mark, we are all Argyle fans/supporters and despite what one person has been saying, we all want our club to do well and we all want fair and just representation. We will never gain that whilst we have a chosen minority selecting the person to represent them who has been selected by the people that selected him. That’s what it boils down to and that’s how it seems.

All of the above is an extremely abbreviated turn of events, all we ask is fairness, justice and a free voice.

As for the abuse Chris has received, for every example you provide, I’ll provide ten examples of Chris dishing it out.

Whenever these issues have been raised there's normally been the President's response of not wanting to know or there's a void of emptiness and a "no return to ATD" policy or, screams of abuse. It'll be interesting to see if Mark has what it takes to respond.

GOB
Scum etc.

Poor old green for life wasn't going to last long over there.
Years and years he's been there giving of his opinion. Thanks for defending me where I haven't a voice GFL ... and you were right, I have never used foul language..... all a complete fabrication .... it's like the Soviet Union over there these days.

It looks like there is a further cleansing under way, maybe in preparation of forging a more formal connection with the club .... a sort of Pasoti Baggo'..... I wonder if Peter Ridsdale has anything to do with the club/fan interface these days, being just a temporary consultant ?

That's how I see it Pirate, Pasoti is now the Unofficial, Official Fans site.

Justice and fair values always prevail in the end but after years of enjoying Pasoti I think it's quite sad to see it self destruct like this and for what, one or two individuals ego trip. Unbelievable really.

Mark Pedlar wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

I signed up to PASOTI in 2005, I've seen nothing but stifled debate, censorship and downright bullying since then. Reasoned debate simply doesn't exist. Any call for 'team investment' was shouted down with the 'spending £ms we dont have' chestnut, yet how much was wasted on the failed P2, the unnecessary freehold purchase or the resulting loss making concerts?. The PASOTI faithful would make such statements as "put your money where your mouth is", guess what, they did, yet they were still shouted down and silenced! I'm not gonna even bother with the recent episodes on PASOTIland as I do believe you're intelligent enough to already know what is going on.

Rather than respond to the details of your post CG, which of course I can't agree with, and the abuse of Chris which I think is un-necessary, I'd like to comment on the overall position with regard to ATD and PASOTI.

I'd view internet support and opinion on Argyle being like a dart-board with people in the centre having "mainstream" views: support the Trust, go to games when they can, generally supportive of the new board, accept what they read in the papers, etc. If you then assume that towards the double 3 are those that do all they can for the club and blindly accept the new board, towards the double 6 are those that broadly support the new board but want money spent on the team, towards the 11 are those who are unsure of the board but are happy that we survive by living within our means, and towards the double top are those who are conspiracy theorists, unsure of the board and the route being taken.

The more your views are towards an extreme the more you feel that your views are being quashed by the many. It can happen at all extremes. Now in my view PASOTI sits close to the treble 3 but towards the centre of it. ATD sits between double and treble 12 but more towards the double. As a poster Chris sits at double 3, CG sits at double 1 - Chris feels persecuted and unable to get his point across here and CH the opposite on PASOTI. Personally I think my views are at treble 10 but I imagine that everyone would view that their opinion is and should be Bull (the analogy doesnt look so good now!!).

Anyway - the main point to get across is that apart from a few who are off the board, we are all Argyle supporters our collective problem is a degree of tolerance.

I'd say your post is fair enough. Where exactly do you draw the line with 'tolerance'? If IJN doesn't label certain Argo fans as 'scum' I wouldn't have bothered kicking off last night. We all have a line that can be crossed.

Dougie wrote:

Back to the questions of payments. I enquired before how the payments through fundraising being used to reduce the salary debt was any different from Heaney enquiring about doing the same. The reaction to him doing was "unleashing the dogs"-like.

If it was bad then how is it different or good now.

Genuine question.

With some kind of truce and peace and love breaking out maybe Chris will pop in and have a view on this.

Dougie wrote:

Dougie wrote:

Back to the questions of payments. I enquired before how the payments through fundraising being used to reduce the salary debt was any different from Heaney enquiring about doing the same. The reaction to him doing was "unleashing the dogs"-like.

If it was bad then how is it different or good now.

Genuine question.

With some kind of truce and peace and love breaking out maybe Chris will pop in and have a view on this.

Not going to happen mate.The Pasoti controller thinks we're scum and must be destroyed. He doesn't possess the intelligence or class to ever see the bigger picture.

If he does, he knows he would be out of the picture at HP if clever blokes got involved

He really can't believe his luck right now and doesn't want to lose his status, at any cost ! That is why he continues his offensive against anyone who is not a nodding Aviva boy.

Hello.
I have been a long long time reader of Pasoti, stopped posting a good few years ago.
Recently I have been turned off. There appears to be an agenda and it doesn't sit right with me. I have found this site and feel like I did in the mid 90's when I discovered Pasoti.

Football forums should be edgy, anarchic and should always question the custodians of our club. I don't think that can happen over there now. You are clearly in or out, and if you're out you might as well never post anything.
Newall is becoming more and more of a bully and I find it sad. I never used to have a Problem with him and found his posts amusing. There had been a real change recently.

Hopefully I will feel more comfortable posting here from now on.

Welcome Straightouttacompton, you have said what a great many of us feel and you are certainly not alone. Many ex pasotians now frequent other areas of the Net thanks to the downward spiral of behavior of just a few, it's a shame.

GOB wrote:

GOB
Scum etc.

I would have repeated the whole post GOB but I thought your signature did it best!!

I will always give you a response but it may not be what you want to hear. But then, that's what genuine debate is about. No-one is control of the dartboard because the dartboard just exists. No-one needs to throw darts at it and no-one can own it - anyone who thinks someone does is well in the doubles!!

On the behind the scenes threads on PASOTI the reasons for banning have always looked good to me. In terms of letting people back - it is always debated and voted on (as with the orginal ban). Some have been let back but only if they have changed their posting style. their opinion, and this is a very valid point, haas nothing to do with it. If someone always posts "Walton is a lazy f*****" then there are pms sent and eventually the poster has a night off or a week depending on how the mods vote. if he continues then a ban is inevitable. if the poster apologises and promises not to troll or use the f word then we will let them back - it's not about the persons opinion - many mods would share that particular example!

CG compared IJN to Ian Brady - a number of us found that extremely offensive. Maybe we're a bit older as a group but we found this unacceptable. CG was given, I believe (I haven't checked), a night off. We also received a number of pms from people who also found it offensive. A bit like Chris on here his response to debate was not to justify or give proof to his examples but rather to rehearse the same arguement. In the end he reverted to abuse.

Not wishing to appear patronising (but I probably do) on a small site like this one it is easier to know and recognise all the posters. When you have an average of 20-30 new joiners a day, like PASOTI, keeping track of who is who is not easy especially in the day of smart phones.

The main issue on here (I won't call it a problem) is that many of the established posters are conspiracy theorists - read the definition - they are seeing conspiracies between principle players on PASOTI and all sorts of issues and making inventions. The classic view of conspiracy theorists is that those who don't share the view are the "herd" who aren't clever enough to see the "reality" which is their view.

The Stapleton thing is a complete red-herring in my view.

Any comment regarding IJN's behavior on the old Argyle Talk site then Mark?

Mark Pedlar wrote:

The main issue on here (I won't call it a problem) is that many of the established posters are conspiracy theorists - read the definition - they are seeing conspiracies between principle players on PASOTI and all sorts of issues and making inventions. The classic view of conspiracy theorists is that those who don't share the view are the "herd" who aren't clever enough to see the "reality" which is their view.

Well, I've read it all now Mark.
This is just rehashing the same old dartboard..... one hundred and eighteeeeeeeeeeeee !

For the millionth time, 'conspiracy theory' is a negative connotation that someone of one tribe, puts on another tribe's competitive thoughts and plans. That nasty Catholic Guy Fawkes conspired, that wonderful English protestant Winston planned.
Should I call the much heralded 7/28/100 day plans conspiracies ? for that's what they are ... they are plans.... fullstop, well, they would have been, if I could see any evidence of them. You might get away with that nursery stuff on pasoti, that dictionary of fun, but not off piste out in the real world.

Why don't you just face facts, some fans of this football club, that we have all supported for decades, don't like what has gone down and still don't like some of what is still going down.
There's no conspiracy, it's just fans of a small out of the way football club disagreeing about the way forward... there's no conspiracy ... it's just called disagreement.