Accelerated staff payments ... possible scandal ?

Thank you for that.

Begs the question why Chris could not have answered in such a succinct way and has to make a song and dance about it. He doesn't help himself sometimes.

peter_dout wrote:

Cerbera wrote:

That didn't last long.

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Censored beyond belief.

I can't believe what Pasoti has turned into. I've been a member over there for years, it was never so heavily modded. What is their agenda?

To be honest Cerbs, reading between the lines, you've gone on there looking for a scrap so there's no point being surprised when you've got one.

As Daz says "I actually completely agree that it needs to be discussed and questions answered, but the questions need to be posed in the right manner on this website rather than a tirade of accusations."

Sorry Peter I disagree. Did you read my original post? It made perfect sense and was not at all inflammatory. I deliberately made it that way. The resultant censorship was what was inflammatory and made me (or rather my post) totally foolish. The accusations were at Daz and his apparent agenda.

Reply by Green Taverners on Pasoti:

We are going to try and answer questions on here, but a formal statement will be issued by Green Taverners and PAFC on Monday. We want to make sure all staff were communicated to about this properly before making public statements!

All money raised by the Green Taverners in forms of Donations have been paid to the staff as donations and will not be taken off the debt owed by James Brent, and will not be repaid to the Green Taverners in any way. These are pure donations from fans.

Over the last few weeks the money made from auctions and FanFest’s are going to be paid to PAFC to accelerate the payments to staff to help them get paid quicker. Meetings with staff will be going ahead next week, all staff have or will be receiving a letter from GT’s and PAFC either today (if they are in work) or next week if they are not in today.
Green Taverners will not be asking for any forms of donations from now on, we will provide a service, or product that will have a cost of which profits will help to accelerate staff payments, like FanFest’s or Shirt Auctions.

Staff in hardship will be paid as quick as possible and payments will be made by PAFC for this.

Are we saving James Brent money?
Yes we are in the immediate terms but all money paid to PAFC through GT’s will be repaid in the future in terms of community activities and supporting community work.
Why are we doing it?
First and foremost the Green Taverners made a commitment amongst themselves that, no matter what happened to the Football Club, liquidation, new owners or whatever, we would ensure that the staff would be paid the money due to them, the fact that a new owner (James Brent) is in place does not detract from our commitment to the staff of the football club.

_________________

Cerbera wrote:

Reply by Green Taverners on Pasoti:

We are going to try and answer questions on here, but a formal statement will be issued by Green Taverners and PAFC on Monday. We want to make sure all staff were communicated to about this properly before making public statements!

All money raised by the Green Taverners in forms of Donations have been paid to the staff as donations and will not be taken off the debt owed by James Brent, and will not be repaid to the Green Taverners in any way. These are pure donations from fans.

Over the last few weeks the money made from auctions and FanFest’s are going to be paid to PAFC to accelerate the payments to staff to help them get paid quicker. Meetings with staff will be going ahead next week, all staff have or will be receiving a letter from GT’s and PAFC either today (if they are in work) or next week if they are not in today.
Green Taverners will not be asking for any forms of donations from now on, we will provide a service, or product that will have a cost of which profits will help to accelerate staff payments, like FanFest’s or Shirt Auctions.

Staff in hardship will be paid as quick as possible and payments will be made by PAFC for this.

Are we saving James Brent money?
Yes we are in the immediate terms but all money paid to PAFC through GT’s will be repaid in the future in terms of community activities and supporting community work.
Why are we doing it?
First and foremost the Green Taverners made a commitment amongst themselves that, no matter what happened to the Football Club, liquidation, new owners or whatever, we would ensure that the staff would be paid the money due to them, the fact that a new owner (James Brent) is in place does not detract from our commitment to the staff of the football club.

_________________

Right so that sums that up then!!!!!!!!!

penzancepirate wrote:

Indeed Seadog, it would be exactly the same as earlier in the year, and the main reason I was totally opposed to a staff fund and the initial statements and purposes of the Green Taverners when they bobbed up onto the surface. My suspicions were raised when it was insisted for no really good reason for the GTs to be the middle man for all the donations, not just what they collected themselves.

I suspect our Mr newell and others might find the answer to this rather embarrasing so let's hope this isn't true.... as usual with something controversial, the posts and comments have disappeared off somewhere, but I assure tou my quote of Newell's above was taken directly from a Pasoti thread.

If duping the fans into paying the club's debts is indeed the club's intention, it's surely something the local papers should run with ... it will be interesting to see what their new policy will be toward the new multi millionaire owner.... surely Brent would not want the embarrassment of this sort of exposure.

You seem to be focusing to much on Ian Newell you are now turning into a stalker.

As long as it is explained then i cant see any problem with it pp, either way the fans pay the staff wages not the employer. If we had crowds of 15k the staff would probably have all thier money in two years. The only real problem i see with this is the lack of communication.

As for Newel you really need to find another hobbie. Its beyond sad. Nearly every one of your posts has pasoti or IJN in it.

125+1 wrote:

penzancepirate wrote:

Indeed Seadog, it would be exactly the same as earlier in the year, and the main reason I was totally opposed to a staff fund and the initial statements and purposes of the Green Taverners when they bobbed up onto the surface. My suspicions were raised when it was insisted for no really good reason for the GTs to be the middle man for all the donations, not just what they collected themselves.

I suspect our Mr newell and others might find the answer to this rather embarrasing so let's hope this isn't true.... as usual with something controversial, the posts and comments have disappeared off somewhere, but I assure tou my quote of Newell's above was taken directly from a Pasoti thread.

If duping the fans into paying the club's debts is indeed the club's intention, it's surely something the local papers should run with ... it will be interesting to see what their new policy will be toward the new multi millionaire owner.... surely Brent would not want the embarrassment of this sort of exposure.

You seem to be focusing to much on Ian Newell you are now turning into a stalker.

As long as it is explained then i cant see any problem with it pp, either way the fans pay the staff wages not the employer. If we had crowds of 15k the staff would probably have all thier money in two years. The only real problem i see with this is the lack of communication.

As for Newel you really need to find another hobbie. Its beyond sad. Nearly every one of your posts has pasoti or IJN in it.

Don't forget me

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My reply on pasoti to questions on both sites. I will copy / paste properly ASAP but I was meant to be out with family an hour ago !

A confusing post from the GT's, and a tad contradictory. It says the payments won't be coming off the amount owed by Brent, but then admits that the GT's will be saving Brent hard cash. This hard cash is to be paid back in the form of ' community activities'. All a bit obscure.

It's plain they now realise they can't ask for 'Donations' any more, as being seen to donate, purely to subsidise what our multi-millionaire owes the staff would indeed be totally outrageous.

This thread has highlighted the potential for misleading the fanbase.

Well done to PP for flagging it up.

Czarcasm wrote:

A confusing post, and a tad contradictory. It says the payments won't be coming off the amount owed by Brent, but then admits that the GT's will be saving Brent hard cash. This hard cash is to be paid back in the form of ' community activities'. All a bit obscure.

It's plain they now realise they can't ask for 'Donations' any more, as being seen to donate, purely to subsidise what our multi-millionaire owes the staff would indeed be totally outrageous.

This thread has highlighted the potential for misleading the fanbase.

Well done to PP for flagging it up.

To be fair though, whilst the statement only partially addresses the questions, there is a statement due out on Monday so it would be unfair to pre-judge.

I see Chris has cut and pasted so as to gain maximum 'effect' and sympathy.

Yet more exposure for ATD as it continues to grow. (cheers Pres)

Some people 'over there' may do well to stop and think just why this site is on so much of an upward trend.

It isn't rocket science.

On a quick reading, it seems to answer lots of concerns. It also gives more information about how Brent may be wanting to extend the involvement of fans - the embeddig of a GT bar - presumably making money for the GT causes - sounds interesting.

Well it looks like PP has stirred up the hornets nest over there!

So, the GT sttement appears to say THEY ARE DEDUCTING NEW AUCTION PROCEEDS ETC FROM THE DEBT OWED TO THE EMPLOYEES .... I THOUGHT SO.

I've been following the GT wording ever since they started up, and this isn't a new concern. If anyone takes a look at their website, they are quite clear they were set up to raise finds to give to the club, that was always their intention, and I don't have a problem with that as such, provided everybody understnd EXACTLY what the score is.

the trouble is fans don't know and donations up til now have been totally seperate from the club, in fact it appears Ian Newell isn't totally clued in.
It was only when Pasoti started raising funds for the staff, that the GTS were forced to go along with the staff fund, and I remember an impression of them being slightly resistant to it as they had no option but to abandon their original idea of paying for the travel and towels etc of the first team.
As soon as the club was sold to Brent, they made a new statement ... effectively saying they were going back to their original intention. the trouble is, no one has told the pasoti fundraisers it would appear.

The wording of the GT statement is ludicrous, and is straight out of some Ridsdalian dictionary of bullshit. "The money will be repaid by brent through community projects" .... do they really think we fans are stupid... that's just another way of saying it's being appropriated against the club debt .. fullstop. I have been saying for a long time that I believe some at the club, and we can guess who the main protagonist is, are wanting to re-describe tradional normal activities at the club as "charitable" and community based" .... what I have referred to disparagingly in the past as Peter Ridsdale's Big Society.

To be fair to Ian Newell, he has stated he will be 'very cross' if new proceeds are being taken off the debt. I assume he is now very cross and is getting stuck in there to say this is out of order. Surely he and Chris Webb won't fall for the community ruse. If they do, they're going to be in a minority ... even on Pasoti.

penzancepirate wrote:

So, the GT sttement appears to say THEY ARE DEDUCTING NEW AUCTION PROCEEDS ETC FROM THE DEBT OWED TO THE EMPLOYEES .... I THOUGHT SO.

I've been following the GT wording ever since they started up, and this isn't a new concern. If anyone takes a look at their website, they are quite clear they were set up to raise finds to give to the club, that was always their intention, and I don't have a problem with that as such, provided everybody understnd EXACTLY what the score is. People obviously don't, in fact it appears Ian Newell isn't totally clued in.
It was only when Pasoti started raising funds for the staff, that the GTS were forced to go along with the staff fund, and I remember an impression of them being slightly resistant to it as they had no option but to abandon their original idea of paying for the travel and towels etc of the first team.
As soon as the club was sold to Brent, they made a new statement ... effectively saying they were going back to their original intention. the trouble is, no one has told the pasoti fundraiser it would appear.

The wording of the GT statement is ludicrous, and is straight out of some Ridsdalian dictionary of bullshit. "The money will be repaid by brent through community projects" .... do they really think we fans are stupid... that's just another way of saying it's being appropriated against the club debt .. fullstop. I have been saying for a long time that I believe some at the club, and we can guess who the main protagonist is, are wanting to re-describe tradional normal activities at the club as "charitable" and community based" .... what I have referred to disparagingly in the past as Peter Ridsdale's Big Society.

To be fair to Ian Newell, he has stated he will be 'very cross' if new proceeds are being taken off the debt. I assume he is now very cross and is getting stuck in there to say this is out of order. Surely he and Chris Webb won't fall for the community ruse. If they do, they're going to be in a minority ... even on Pasoti.

Stop digging PP.

You not Ian Newell will be the death of this site.

Honest posters can see that you have an agenda. You have asked questions (in amongst abusive accusations). You have been answered and corrected yet you still carry on with more fabrication.

If the majority of ATD posters cannot see this then I would be amazed.

The GT statement is quite clear to me Mr Webb, unless you can explain it to me differently.

Any new donations, auctions etc being funnelled through the Green Taverners are going to be taken off the staff debt owed by the club .... FULL STOP .... how can you read it any way else ?

I would love to hear your logic.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to this subject. Both Ian Newell and Chris Webb "bite" very easily when sometimes it's better for them to take a more measured approach. All it takes is for a clear statement about how the donations are being used, and something to clear up the issue of whether the donations are being used to reduce Plymouth Argyle's debt to staff of not. And I think this has already been done. So end of story really ? Regarding PASOTI, its an interesting website but has got increasingly "cliquey" in recent times. For example- god knows why Chris Webb wont say if Tony Wrathall came to the game the other day and why PASOTI have banned discussion on the matter. It was a big point of discussion on the site not long ago when it was in fashion with their moderators. So what if Wrathall did come - it's no big deal and most fans could't care less anyway. But why hide the truth for cryring out loud ? It kind of makes me wonder what other types of discussion they try and supress.

penzancepirate wrote:

The GT statement is quite clear to me Mr Webb, unless you can explain it to me differently.

Any new donations, auctions etc being funnelled through the Green Taverners are going to be taken off the staff debt owed by the club .... FULL STOP .... how can you read it any way else ?

I would love to hear your logic.

You've seen my post, I have corrected you and exposed the complete fabrication from you and a couple of others.

Surely thats enough for tonight.

The trouble is PP when you constantly attack good people for no reason at some point it completely turns people off. You have reached that point.

mandela wrote:

I think there is a huge over-reaction to this subject. Both Ian Newell and Chris Webb "bite" very easily when sometimes it's better for them to take a more measured approach. All it takes is for a clear statement about how the donations are being used, and something to clear up the issue of whether the donations are being used to reduce Plymouth Argyle's debt to staff of not. And I think this has already been done. So end of story really ? Regarding PASOTI, its an interesting website but has got increasingly "cliquey" in recent times. For example- god knows why Chris Webb wont say if Tony Wrathall came to the game the other day and why PASOTI have banned discussion on the matter. It was a big point of discussion on the site not long ago when it was in fashion with their moderators. So what if Wrathall did come - it's no big deal and most fans could't care less anyway. But why hide the truth for cryring out loud ? It kind of makes me wonder what other types of discussion they try and supress.

Haha thats an interesting first post....... You may want to have a re-read of my post my friend....today for the 3rd time I confirmed that Tony Wrathall wasn't at the game with me.

I have no beef with you Chris- I generally support your work for PAFC. Shame Wrathall was not there- you were right to invite him. But this is going off topic now. So end of my contribution to this thread.

penzancepirate wrote:

The GT statement is quite clear to me Mr Webb, unless you can explain it to me differently.

Any new donations, auctions etc being funnelled through the Green Taverners are going to be taken off the staff debt owed by the club .... FULL STOP .... how can you read it any way else ?

I would love to hear your logic.

At the risk of towel flicking you in the nuts Penz, which isn't my intention, what's the problem with reducing the debt early?.

I mentioned it on PASOTI and i'll say it here too, the quicker the debt is cleared the quicker we can plough all funds generated into strengthening. At no time from beginning to end did James Brent say he was going to bankroll Argyle so the sooner the proportion of income can go back into the club (rather than clearing existing debts) the quicker we can progress.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think there's a mindset problem at work here. Some seem to feel this is 'getting a multimillionaire off the hook' but with no promise of overt investment coming anyway all we'd be doing by objecting to this is diverting gate/shop income away from the team and into debt repayment. He's not going to be a sugar daddy, he never said he was, self sufficiency is what we're getting (about time too in my book).

Whether it's shirts, gate reciepts, programmes, 50/50 or auctions on PASOTI or fanfests it's ALL money into Argyle, isn't that a good thing?.

Chris Webb wrote:

[You've seen my post, I have corrected you

And I am correcting you .... the GT statement says quite categorically that new donations are going into the club coffers, where the debt to the employees sits..... FULL STOP. How the club decides to spend it's overall turnover has nothing to do with this. I am not stupid.

penzancepirate wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

[You've seen my post, I have corrected you

And I am correcting you .... the GT statement says quite categorically that new donations are going into the club coffers, where the debt to the employees sits..... FULL STOP. How the club decides to spend it's overall turnover has nothing to do with this. I am not stupid.

As an observer, it would appear to me that certain people, who have been awarded various badges of distinction by the much revered 'James Brent', for services rendered [past, present and future], understand fully what their roles are.

Trouble is, not all Argyle fans are as thick as Brent clearly believes them to be.

His supposed 'influential ones', will and are being found out.

Tringreen wrote:

As an observer, it would appear to me that certain people, who have been awarded various badges of distinction by the much revered 'James Brent', for services rendered [past, present and future], understand fully what their roles are.

Trouble is, not all Argyle fans are as thick as Brent clearly believes them to be.

His supposed 'influential ones', will and are being found out.

Haha, read the threads Tringy. Take out the usual ATD suspects and people have seen straight through the nasty nature of Penzance Pirate, Rickler, Gob and co.

The very site set up to offer an alternative voice is on the brink of killing itself....

Doesn't appear that way to me dear boy.

You can 'rubbish' alternative opinions all you like but the essential difference is that on ATD they will be heard and not deleted.

In fact , why do you continue to waste your very important and unifying presidential time with us freaks ?

Go back to the fiefdom and preach to the Aviva boys. You're neither convincing or clever enough to prevail on ATD.

Tringreen wrote:

Doesn't appear that way to me dear boy.

You can 'rubbish' alternative opinions all you like but the essential difference is that on ATD they will be heard and not deleted.

In fact , why do you continue to waste your very important and unifying presidential time with us freaks ?

Go back to the fiefdom and preach to the Aviva boys. You're neither convincing or clever enough to prevail on ATD.

Any mild mannered ATD poster has not posted on this thread. They like everyone else can see that its about PPs agenda and nothing else.

I am here for the majority and will continue to be so.

Big difference between rubbishing opinion and correcting lies, Tringy.

I suggest that if you cannot handle being corrected then a break would do you and the majority of Argyle fans good.