Andy Symons & John Petrie (aka "Leaders of the Opposition")

... and bears and big foot are still sh***ing in the woods!

The day that the "S" in PASB stopped standing for "Scrutiny" and was replaced by "Supporters" was the day that any meaningful role that body had in holding to account this or any future owner of the club ended.

At that very point it stopped being a meaningful step to do things differently or to blaze a trail for a new and more responsible model of club ownership and became instead a branding exercise designed as a sop to a vocal minority.

Sometimes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's just a bloke with a kazoo in his mouth.

But its also about care in the community and getting fans into the ground. A couple of tasks that I was unaware were part of PASB remit until todays piece (peace) on the official site.

Gareth, as an aside, how did you find your time on The Trust board? You seem to be the subject of some robust challlenges.

i'm still waiting for the trust to comment on this saga. Is there a statement coming?

Dougie wrote:

Gareth, as an aside, how did you find your time on The Trust board? You seem to be the subject of some robust challlenges.

It goes with the territory, doesn't it?

How did I find my time? I have my regrets, let's put it that way. I made plenty of mistakes in a fairly short time on the board, mainly because I had no time to do it. Looking back on it, we needed to move quicker to outline a different identity after Chris and others left en masse. We should have taken a business planning approach that set some targets for what we wanted to achieve in terms of things like renewals and new members. And we became too bogged down in soap opera stuff (nearly all of it not of our doing) rather than focusing on drilling down from day 1 on making sure the club kept its promises.

I found being on the board a great experience. I don't know many other Argyle fans and it was good to meet new ones. We were a mix of completely different characters with different ways of doing things and different histories as fans. That was bound to cause teething problems but I feel very strongly that, given more time to become familiar with eachother in a less febrile environment we would have made it work. Sadly that wasn't the case.

What people don't necessarily realise is how much time it took up. People like Richard Bright and John Demellweek gave up countless evenings dealing with a membership system that was stitched together on hope and a communications system that wasn't worth the bandwidth. I've not a bad word to say about any of my colleagues on that board. I felt that the decisions we took were more often than not the result of debate (often argument) and that I as a board member had a stake in those decisions. I didn't necessarily feel that in the time before the election.

Having said that, my experience has made me think again about the future of supporter ownership because some of the stuff that happened really wasn't pleasant. But ultimately I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I sat in a meeting across the table from James Brent and told him what I thought of football clubs that employ Peter Ridsdale (although apparently that hasn't gone down well with certain people).

I'm pleased that I met so many people at the Trust gazebo (and I'd ask those who profess to fully support the Trust how many times they went down there).

But I also learnt that we can't put faith in a small group of people to do something. A lot of people are content to sit back and let others represent them, but every single Trust member needs to feel able to put their point across.

I'm glad I asked and thank you for answering. Interesting read.

I sometime forget or don't think about what people are giving up to get involved. I'm glad there was a broad spectrum of views and i think thats healthy if people can be treated with respect when taking a contrary view.

Dougie wrote:

I'm glad I asked and thank you for answering. Interesting read.

I sometime forget or don't think about what people are giving up to get involved. I'm glad there was a broad spectrum of views and i think thats healthy if people can be treated with respect when taking a contrary view.

Tell Pasoti that The club is still controlled by people who have been shown to be less than straight. Pasoti has allowed this behaviour and the media only report what the club wants them to report.

The self promoting control freaks have not left the building and the mistrust will continue and escalate further, should our league position not improve by the season's end. If we do survive, they will continue with their devious activities. It's what they do.

All the bluster and papering over of cracks which will now happen for a few weeks , will count for nothing, if those responsible for the divisions are not put back in their boxes and the lids firmly shut.
It is in their nature to know best and control, by any means available.

True Tring. Very True.

Dougie wrote:

True Tring. Very True.

Brent may well see the club ultimately being community led so that he can ride off into the Caribbean with his wedge but he seems to be unaware, or doesn't care, what kind of people are leaders/ controllers. A fatal flaw imo.

If the last year is anything to go by, the nest of vipers will only multiply as more wannabes come to the trough. There is already an elite control group who must be obeyed, or the wrath of the Pasoti multis will fall upon those who dare to hold differing viewpoints.
Is it to be the current mishmash of janner mafia supported by the likes of Nikkk,the GT's running about their tent, Sue shaking buckets etc. or is there to be properly democratically elected officers and a Fans Trust in control ?

Did I not also read something earlier about, 'What the individual pasb members could contribute/ bring to the table ?' It all seems very loose and unstructured, with no obvious chain of command which inevitably leads to power struggles and chaos, as we are now witnessing.

It's all very, 'Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the greatest fan of all ?' A recipe for continued disaster. Don't suppose it will matter too much in the BSP as most people will be so fed up they'll let those for whom it is their reason for existing, get on with it and the club will spend many years down among the dead men............but they'll still be happy.

Tringreen wrote:

Dougie wrote:

True Tring. Very True.

Brent may well see the club ultimately being community led so that he can ride off into the Caribbean with his wedge but he seems to be unaware, or doesn't care, what kind of people are leaders/ controllers. A fatal flaw imo.

If the last year is anything to go by, the nest of vipers will only multiply as more wannabes come to the trough. There is already an elite control group who must be obeyed, or the wrath of the Pasoti multis will fall upon those who dare to hold differing viewpoints.
Is it to be the current mishmash of janner mafia supported by the likes of Nikkk,the GT's running about their tent, Sue shaking buckets etc. or is there to be properly democratically elected officers and a Fans Trust in control ?

Did I not also read something earlier about, 'What the individual pasb members could contribute/ bring to the table ?' It all seems very loose and unstructured, with no obvious chain of command which inevitably leads to power struggles and chaos, as we are now witnessing.

It's all very, 'Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the greatest fan of all ?' A recipe for continued disaster. Don't suppose it will matter too much in the BSP as most people will be so fed up they'll let those for whom it is their reason for existing, get on with it and the club will spend many years down among the dead men............but they'll still be happy.

So true...as always

Gareth Nicholson wrote:

Dougie wrote:

Gareth, as an aside, how did you find your time on The Trust board? You seem to be the subject of some robust challlenges.

It goes with the territory, doesn't it?

How did I find my time? I have my regrets, let's put it that way. I made plenty of mistakes in a fairly short time on the board, mainly because I had no time to do it. Looking back on it, we needed to move quicker to outline a different identity after Chris and others left en masse. We should have taken a business planning approach that set some targets for what we wanted to achieve in terms of things like renewals and new members. And we became too bogged down in soap opera stuff (nearly all of it not of our doing) rather than focusing on drilling down from day 1 on making sure the club kept its promises.

I found being on the board a great experience. I don't know many other Argyle fans and it was good to meet new ones. We were a mix of completely different characters with different ways of doing things and different histories as fans. That was bound to cause teething problems but I feel very strongly that, given more time to become familiar with eachother in a less febrile environment we would have made it work. Sadly that wasn't the case.

What people don't necessarily realise is how much time it took up. People like Richard Bright and John Demellweek gave up countless evenings dealing with a membership system that was stitched together on hope and a communications system that wasn't worth the bandwidth. I've not a bad word to say about any of my colleagues on that board. I felt that the decisions we took were more often than not the result of debate (often argument) and that I as a board member had a stake in those decisions. I didn't necessarily feel that in the time before the election.

Having said that, my experience has made me think again about the future of supporter ownership because some of the stuff that happened really wasn't pleasant. But ultimately I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I sat in a meeting across the table from James Brent and told him what I thought of football clubs that employ Peter Ridsdale (although apparently that hasn't gone down well with certain people).

I'm pleased that I met so many people at the Trust gazebo (and I'd ask those who profess to fully support the Trust how many times they went down there).

But I also learnt that we can't put faith in a small group of people to do something. A lot of people are content to sit back and let others represent them, but every single Trust member needs to feel able to put their point across.

Gareth, I would recommend you don't give up hope of supporter ownership or indeed your own future re-involvement. You appear to be similar to those who have successfully run the City Trust. Unfortunately, there will always be those who put their own self advancement ahead of the Club they support. They may be more vocal at the moment, but good will always triumph. Good luck with the future.

I know most of you will say it is not needed but I would politely suggest your Trust Board Members meet with some of the City Trust members to talk through the problems and get some easy wins. Yes, I know argyle are different to City in size etc, but sometimes those you would not thought of as friends would help you more than those who simply support the same team.

Actually members of Exeter's Trust have been of help to Argyle's more than once. Indeed I had several email conversations with Exeter members about the problems we were having with our email system. The people I spoke to were more than helpful and explained what Exeter use, which is a bespoke system developed with help from Exeter University and ( if memory serves ) a local IT company.

To follow on from Gareth's post. Myself, John Demellweek and Sally Snow had the membership system running very well but he is correct in saying we did have problems with the communications ( email system ). He is also correct in saying it did take up an awful lot of our time, especially to set it up and get it running initially. My wife estimated that the 2 years I was involved with the Trust, it took up in the region of 2000 hours of my time. Hence the main reason for standing down. It's a job that suits semi retired or retired people.

Good luck to Sally Snow and Bob Wright as they continue that work.

One thing I love about this site is the way Exeter fans are welcome and on the whole post with an intelligence not usually associated with that place

Seriously though, what is the problem with chatting to other fans from other clubs? I saw a few choice comments over on Pasoti to jabba earlier and it's usually the case that they're not welcome on there. Newell and Webb tweet constantly about Exeter as if they have anything to gloat about, but it also comes across as ever so slightly obsessive, as if they think that's how it should be.

Add Newell's 10,000 plus posts on exeweb which were hardly complimentary and it is such a narrow-minded old fashioned view which I find really strange.

Tcm can't see why city fans are welcome on here either, so what would these people do on holiday if they bumped into a city fan? Would they glass them and post photos on Twitter?

Just an observation of another difference between the two sites.

Greenjock wrote:

One thing I love about this site is the way Exeter fans are welcome and on the whole post with an intelligence not usually associated with that place

Seriously though, what is the problem with chatting to other fans from other clubs? I saw a few choice comments over on Pasoti to jabba earlier and it's usually the case that they're not welcome on there. Newell and Webb tweet constantly about Exeter as if they have anything to gloat about, but it also comes across as ever so slightly obsessive, as if they think that's how it should be.

Add Newell's 10,000 plus posts on exeweb which were hardly complimentary and it is such a narrow-minded old fashioned view which I find really strange.

Tcm can't see why city fans are welcome on here either, so what would these people do on holiday if they bumped into a city fan? Would they glass them and post photos on Twitter?

Just an observation of another difference between the two sites.

Nool and his dwindling band of dead heads think all atd posters are exeter trolls because we don't worship st speccy, and most of us think nool and webb are prize pricks.

I really don't mind the fact that we get ECFC fans on here it's not as if I have to actually touch one (steady down I'm joking) we get some thought provoking posts from up the road.

Also no issues with the red & white ones, cosmopolitan old site this one. Well done all and stick to your guns, our enemy is within!

Most Argyle fans aren't welcome on pasoti, so Exeter fans have no chance

My degree certificate says University of Exeter on it and I once bought a lampshade from Habitat in Exeter. I'm not sure which is more valuable.

Feel my pain - one of our Service Directors at work is an Exeter fan and his boss (my BIG boss) is a Gashead

Is Habitat still going? You have a degree?!! (pmsl at my own frankly hilare joke mocking your intellect).

I was thinking of a scheme, loosely, called the Devon Inter Club Kinship Scheme (DICKS) where, I dunno, if you have a membership in one De'm club's Trust you could get half-price membership in the others, as a non-voting, non- stake holding member or similar...I'd happily chip a fiver to the ECFC Trust on this basis, and Torkey's too if they ever were to get one (or do they have one already?). Is that a gay idea? Is it workable? Are there any single city fans, aged 12-69 who are looking for a strong chap with DICKS on his mind?

No but, seriously. Not the last bit.

Stronger Trusts backed by increased numbers, with more clout as a collective when it comes to avoiding 10am derby time kickoffs, etc.

My degree certificate says someone else's name on it. I took it along with the silver and other valuables. I thought it would look good on my mantlepiece saying I'm a qualified vet.

We're all War Vets on here.

Oh no, I mean Wor Vets.

We chased them off the beaches...we sent emails galore...we had our backs to the FOOKIN wall as Herr Guilfoyle lined up his conniving and treacherous U-Boats across the Atlantic, the luftwaffe was dominating the skys but could they bomb the civic centre? NOT on Chris Webb's WATCH.

For you ze var is over

Greenjock wrote:

One thing I love about this site is the way Exeter fans are welcome and on the whole post with an intelligence not usually associated with that place

Seriously though, what is the problem with chatting to other fans from other clubs? I saw a few choice comments over on Pasoti to jabba earlier and it's usually the case that they're not welcome on there. Newell and Webb tweet constantly about Exeter as if they have anything to gloat about, but it also comes across as ever so slightly obsessive, as if they think that's how it should be.

Add Newell's 10,000 plus posts on exeweb which were hardly complimentary and it is such a narrow-minded old fashioned view which I find really strange.

Tcm can't see why city fans are welcome on here either, so what would these people do on holiday if they bumped into a city fan? Would they glass them and post photos on Twitter?

Just an observation of another difference between the two sites.

Spot on Jock.

Newell did Argyle a huge dis-service with his 20 daily posts on Exeweb. It took a long time to get rid of him and the utter contempt all Argyle fans were held in on there. Cerbs posted on there before Pasoti and before ATD saying he supported both Clubs. Webb didn't post I think, although he did text a few City fans (myself included) after being given numbers by Newell when we all finally believed the stories Tring and others told us. ATD I think is how a forum should operate. This is an adult Argyle forum, first and foremost, not a forum for City fans. However, those of us who do post on here rarely overstep the mark and quite frankly if we did I think you would give us a metaphorical slap....if you catch us that is. It is all about respect I think. Whilst I will always want Argyle to lose, I do not want those that post on here to lose.

Any animosity between both sets of fans should be voiced in the ground on a match day, after that...there are more important things to love and hate.

I have got my tickets for the 30th and will be spending the rest of the day and night in Plymouth. My car will be parked hidden away (City sticker taken off) with the only problem expected trying to get to the car after the game...however in a strange way that is exciting and often why you go. The danger is an andenalin rush not to be missed.

Would I go in the Cherry Tree before the game...almost definately (but not with colours), would I go in the Britannia...no way

The Red Star wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

One thing I love about this site is the way Exeter fans are welcome and on the whole post with an intelligence not usually associated with that place

Seriously though, what is the problem with chatting to other fans from other clubs? I saw a few choice comments over on Pasoti to jabba earlier and it's usually the case that they're not welcome on there. Newell and Webb tweet constantly about Exeter as if they have anything to gloat about, but it also comes across as ever so slightly obsessive, as if they think that's how it should be.

Add Newell's 10,000 plus posts on exeweb which were hardly complimentary and it is such a narrow-minded old fashioned view which I find really strange.

Tcm can't see why city fans are welcome on here either, so what would these people do on holiday if they bumped into a city fan? Would they glass them and post photos on Twitter?

Just an observation of another difference between the two sites.

Spot on Jock.

Newell did Argyle a huge dis-service with his 20 daily posts on Exeweb. It took a long time to get rid of him and the utter contempt all Argyle fans were held in on there. Cerbs posted on there before Pasoti and before ATD saying he supported both Clubs. Webb didn't post I think, although he did text a few City fans (myself included) after being given numbers by Newell when we all finally believed the stories Tring and others told us. ATD I think is how a forum should operate. This is an adult Argyle forum, first and foremost, not a forum for City fans. However, those of us who do post on here rarely overstep the mark and quite frankly if we did I think you would give us a metaphorical slap....if you catch us that is. It is all about respect I think. Whilst I will always want Argyle to lose, I do not want those that post on here to lose.

Any animosity between both sets of fans should be voiced in the ground on a match day, after that...there are more important things to love and hate.

I have got my tickets for the 30th and will be spending the rest of the day and night in Plymouth. My car will be parked hidden away (City sticker taken off) with the only problem expected trying to get to the car after the game...however in a strange way that is exciting and often why you go. The danger is an andenalin rush not to be missed.

Would I go in the Cherry Tree before the game...almost definately (but not with colours), would I go in the Britannia...no way

fan fest red star