EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

Project fear mainly lies it would seem. No doubt the innies will be pissed off with this bit of news.
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Amsterdamage wrote:

Project fear mainly lies it would seem. No doubt the innies will be pissed off with this bit of news.
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Not pissed off at all. As predicted if you look back through the thread. It shows how good the economy is by remaining in the EU.

Expect some "turbulence" if Boris stands on a Brexit manifesto and expect the worst when Article 50 is due.

Lets be real here. Nothing is happening at the moment (though that could change depending on what Boris says today), we are still in the EU and at this time there is no real intention to leave.

Boris gets in, we negotiate with the EU, officially leave but actually effectively stay, pay more and get less.
My forecast.

seadog wrote:

Boris gets in, we negotiate with the EU, officially leave but actually effectively stay, pay more and get less.
My forecast.

Johnson said yesterday, I think, that he wanted full, free access to the single market and that will mean that we have to allow free movement of labour between us and the EU.

Being a classicist he'll know exactly what a Pyrrhic victory is and it looks like he's about to enjoy experiencing one.

seadog wrote:

Boris gets in, we negotiate with the EU, officially leave but actually effectively stay, pay more and get less.
My forecast.

What I reckon too. We won't get a better deal than what we've got now as no one within the EU is in any mood to pander to us.

Breaking: Gove to stand as next Tory leader and, ergo, PM.

Could it be that the Gove/Johnson dream team doesn't trust each other as far as they could throw each other? Sounds like it: "I have come to the conclusion that I must stop Boris" (I paraphrase). I wonder why he thinks that?

Vote Boris to stay in the EU?

I look forward to exercising my democratic right, eventually, to choose who leads us - what could be less democratic than having a Prime Minister imposed upon us by shadowy figures we don't even know the names of?

"Johnson", of course, is a US slang term for a penis.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I look forward to exercising my democratic right, eventually, to choose who leads us - what could be less democratic than having a Prime Minister imposed upon us by shadowy figures we don't even know the names of?

Are you talking about Gordon Brown ?

seadog wrote:

Boris gets in, we negotiate with the EU, officially leave but actually effectively stay, pay more and get less.
My forecast.

That's a good call Seadog, would have been the perfect Westminster stitch up, leaving us "at the bottom" to pay the price, and still leave the benefit st/minimum wage demographic simmering anger unanswered, but somewhat kettled. Could still happen, but now Gove has declared, everything changes. You've all just got to see the "leaked" peresonal e-mail yesterday to Gove ( mistakenly addressed   )from Gove's own wife, who is a columnist for the Mail, telling him to be a man and stand up to Boris. It's an absolute classic hoot. It's been leaked to the guardian but I'm sure some on here could hold their nose while reading it. Bojo ditches Cameron, Gove ditches Bojo. Caligula will be next. And they say politics is boring.

Gove shorely can't win, but he may well split Bojo's vote, pleasing a few people for the future, and give it to May. The other beneficiary could be the dark horse, the man in a hurry, the homophobic Crabb, who in my opinion would do a deal with the devil if it got him what he wants. Not sure about Fox, he strikes me as the kingmaker sort. What a bunch. As Kermit once said, I'm glad I'm Green.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I look forward to exercising my democratic right, eventually, to choose who leads us - what could be less democratic than having a Prime Minister imposed upon us by shadowy figures we don't even know the names of?

Are you talking about Gordon Brown ?

Might as well be.

That was Brown's biggest mistake (he didn't cause the crash): he should, having replaced Blair, have called a general election immediately to endorse aand legitimise his leadership. He did not. The public never forgave him and then the global crash gave the opposition a stick to beat him with. It was a dreadful blunder and, clearly, an affront to democracy whatever our constitution might allow.

Just as a few thousand unnamed Tories choosing from a shortlist of two compiled by 300 or so MPs is.

There's a point to be made here about unelected faceless bureacrats/Tory party members and a democratic deficit at the heart of an entire process that de-legitimises everything it does and attempts to do but it doesn't much matter any more.

Add Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom to those standing to be a leader that we won't be choosing.

Thanks for that Fwank. Having just looked up the rules for the tory leadership thing, all these candidates get whittled down to two by the MPs, but unusually in one fell swoop this time, due to time constraints. That confuses things and makes it awfully difficult to call.
Only then does it go to the party members, where, by the way, there is dispute as to how long members must have been members whenever the contest is due to a leader resigning, such as Cameron. But of course, he hasn't resigned yet, or has he ? Is it their own article 50, their own hanging chad ? Has the membership qualification thing been cleared up online somewhere ?, or are we going to see a tory "Corbynista" uptake or even an establishment stuffing of voices ?
What a horrible minefield.

I read somwhere that you need to be a member for 3 months before becoming eligible to vote.

"We need the backing of Dacre & Murdoch..."

TAKE BACK CONTROL!

IT'S ABOUT DEMOCRACY!

Why are Tory candidates always suited and booted, but labour candidates just plain scruffy barstewards?

Anyway. I'm off to Lidl to stock-up on beer for tonight. Thursdays is always film or Sky+ catch-up night, although I may pause formalities to watch QT. That should be interesting.

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I wonder who Murdoch will appoint?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

seadog wrote:

Boris gets in, we negotiate with the EU, officially leave but actually effectively stay, pay more and get less.
My forecast.

Johnson said yesterday, I think, that he wanted full, free access to the single market and that will mean that we have to allow free movement of labour between us and the EU.

Being a classicist he'll know exactly what a Pyrrhic victory is and it looks like he's about to enjoy experiencing one.

And getting even more Pyrrhic by the moment.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I read somwhere that you need to be a member for 3 months before becoming eligible to vote.

"We need the backing of Dacre & Murdoch..."

TAKE BACK CONTROL!

IT'S ABOUT DEMOCRACY!

But that 3 month rule is up in the air and not clear if the leadership is called due to a leader resignation, as opposed to a no confidence vote. Maybe nothing, but it's a clever and probably deliberate loophole, if required.
It appears Gove's wife's e-mail was initially leaked to Murdoch, not the guardian, and was not personal but incorrectly addressed to his "support team". Nevertheless it's extremely funny. poor old Boris is going to get trashed by Murdoch.

So, the runners and riders for the next prime minister so far are:-
Brexiteers...

Johnson
Gove
Fox
Leadsom

Remainers..

May
Crabb

The new PM will be chosen by early September was it the 7th? Meaning that no one can join the Tories now and be able to cast a vote for leader. You're not already a Tory are you Franzi?
Anybody that thinks well ever be included in any decision making after the 23rd of June is seriously deluded.
The main point coming from this is the desperate manoeuvring from journos trying to push their forecast of doom or bright new future, truth is no one knows as we will step into the unknown. We always knew the Tories were an untrustworthy bunch and nothing would surprise me.
I think we will end up with a trade deal but not 100% access to market and not 100% free movement but with controlled migration, we need migration to some extent and I don't think there are many sensible people that would object. The main thing is we would be out of Brussels and any threat of future collapse of the already teetering EU will affect us less.

Lord Biro wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I read somwhere that you need to be a member for 3 months before becoming eligible to vote.

"We need the backing of Dacre & Murdoch..."

TAKE BACK CONTROL!

IT'S ABOUT DEMOCRACY!

But that 3 month rule is up in the air and not clear if the leadership is called due to a leader resignation, as opposed to a no confidence vote. Maybe nothing, but it's a clever and probably deliberate loophole, if required.
It appears Gove's wife's e-mail was initially leaked to Murdoch, not the guardian, and was not personal but incorrectly addressed to his "support team". Nevertheless it's extremely funny. poor old Boris is going to get trashed by Murdoch.

So, the runners and riders for the next prime minister so far are:-
Brexiteers...

Johnson
Gove
Fox
Leadsom

Remainers..

May
Crabb

The only one who isn't a bullingdon boy is May (I may be wrong we were told Major was a building site labourer lol) and as an outer I'm not sure of her promise to put an outer in charge of outing, Minister for outing? Has a certain ring to it. Personally I still think the old school will get their luvvy Bojo and I'm pretty sure I was the first to moot the out but still in scenario, can't trust any of the feckers. Remember when our old mate Blair had to hold the ban the fox hunt vote and he really wanted to keep hunting under licence, we went for an all out ban and hunts are still hunting. PMs have a canny knack of gettting their own way even when they are seen not to. Don't you just love democracy?

Is Johnson still a confirmed candidate?

I'm losing track to be honest.

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Amsterdamage wrote:

I'm pretty sure I was the first to moot the out but still in scenario:lol!:

To be honest, it has never been hard to fathom if push came to shove, and one of the reasons I saw no point in voting.
We will have to exit as an exercise in democracy, but the only thing that could bring about negotiating a tariff free European market, with a realistic ability to stop immigration as many would want, is for the EU to have a pack of cards moment in the next 2 years. Or, of course, Crash Part 2.
French and German populist opinion is the key to that, with Spain up next.  But even then, how can any of us have a free market for goods, services, and capital, without a free movement of labour ?

Of course, the lack of democracy charge is quickly answered by:-

Well, we respect the peoples' vote, and we have duly exited the EU. The people did not individually vote on individual policies within that main bone of contention. In fact, most people on both sides have voiced disquiet at how unfair and full of lies the debate was on both sides. Thank you for coming. Go back to your constituencies and prepare for work tomorrow.

What is the point of believing anything any of them ever says?

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I know "lying politicians" is something of a cliché but, seriously, why would you even give them the benefit of the doubt?

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Boris bottles it.

So, Boris has done a runner. I guess he didn't want to drimk from the poisoned chalice!