EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

Consumer spending and private borrowing are not taxes - stealthy or otherwise.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Consumer spending by rising house prices and PRIVATE borrowing. Didn't think I needed to be that obvious.

Stealth taxes included National Insurance contributions being taxed at 10% of your yearly profits. This on top of normal income tax.
However he kept tax thresholds low so that the less well off would start paying tax on their earnings.
Council taxes rose 70% during his time as chancellor.
Nothing was quite as it seemed with Brown. A truly dreadful chancellor.

But not, as evidenced already, one who overspent, crashed the economy or borrowed half as much as George Osborne.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Consumer spending and private borrowing are not taxes - stealthy or otherwise.

Never said they were.

I stand by everything I've posted.

You can fool yourself if you want but you won't fool me.

"Fool" is not a word I would have chosen.

I don't expect to convince you of anything because you simply deny the facts, substitute opinion and those opinions are incredibly misguided and usually have no basis in fact.

All I can do is knock holes, surprisingly easily, in what you've been saying by introducing actual facts, dates, numbers and so on in the hope that somebody else is convinced by what actually quantifiably and definitely happened as opposed to your preferred dogmatic interpretation.

I live in the probably vain hope that fact and careful analysis will eventually triumph over preconception and willful ignorance because if it doesn't we're all done for.

Les Miserable wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Very interesting indeed Frank, I love that, thank you.

Hates a fact does Les Mis

Been on the sauce again Hugh?

Please go on I'm intrigued.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I don't expect to convince you of anything because you simply deny the facts, substitute opinion and those opinions are incredibly misguided and usually have no basis in fact.

All I can do is knock holes, surprisingly easily, in what you've been saying by introducing actual facts.

The trouble with you is that your pie charts etc, only tell half a story.

Your posts about the debt levels not being as high as in previous years (failing to mention that these were war years) is a case in point.

You then act all indignant when it's pointed out. It's the wriggle room you always give yourself.

I just read some news on the BBC red button thing that is suggesting UK banks are ill-prepared for a financial shock which could be worse than that of 2008.

Les Miserable wrote:

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Now translate that same piece to "Tories commit to huge increase in public spending" and run it through your bullshit detector.

Mine is bleeping away like a dockyard Geiger Counter.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

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Now translate that same piece to "Tories commit to huge increase in public spending" and run it through your bullshit detector.

Mine is bleeping away like a dockyard Geiger Counter.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it would seem.

The leave campaign promised an extra £350 million a week which was abandoned before we even reached midday.

It's a post Brexit spending promise and nobody knows when then that will be yet. If at all.

The current plan appears to be meaningless slogans such as "Brexit mean Brexit" and hope that people pay more attention to other news such as Labour destroying itself to notice that we arent doing anything towards leaving the EU. There are however plenty that think we've already left.

You only have to look at Brent's Grandstand to see how easy it is to pacify people, nobody not least Brent believes there will be a new grandstand and no one other is really that bothered.

I actually think Theresa May will do OK, or at least compared to the gross incompetence of the last lot. i was pleased when she cancelled the shockingly poor deal with the Chinese To build Hinckley C and given that she's a shoe in to win in 2020, she won't be able to kick awkward problems like the referendum into the next parliament or activating article 50

From The Times:

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So you're now reduced to posting a screenshot of, well actually I ain't sure. Is it a letter or is it from the papers opinion column or is it a piece written by a journalist.

Either way it's the Times, which backed the remain side.

Farage was one of the very few MEPs that led a party. It might just be he had more important things to attend to. Like winning the referendum.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

So you're now reduced to posting a screenshot of, well actually I ain't sure. Is it a letter or is it from the papers opinion column or is it a piece written by a journalist.

Either way it's the Times, which backed the remain side.

Farage was one of the very few MEPs that led a party. It might just be he had more important things to attend to. Like winning the referendum.

It's a shame he didn't attend to what might happen after winning the referendum. Either way his attendance record is dreadful as an MEP for which he draws a salary of £84,000. I use the present tense as he intends to remain until we leave the EU. Ironically. So if his job as party leader really takes up that much of his time, then perhaps he ought to the decent thing and stand down?

BTW Only person has a worse record on voting. That's Brian Crowley from Ireland who is paralysed from the waist down.

Just shows what a pathetic shambles the Euro parliament is...

You don't show up for work and still able to collect money.

No wonder people want to be in it.

From the last Tory manifesto:

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Bloody hell, is this thread still going?

Homeslice wrote:

Bloody hell, is this thread still going?

Oh there's plenty of death left in the horse yet. Expect a good deal more flogging.

Until the country stops faffing about and makes a clear decision on what its doing, which isn't going to happen any time soon, it will rumble on and on. The referendum of it itself isn't constitutionally binding becasue the country doesn't have written constitution like the US.

Now it looks as though the Supreme court will judge as to whether article 50 needs parliamentary assent.

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Regardless of this "the withdrawal process will also involve either repealing or amending the 1972 European Communities Act, which will require debates and votes in both Houses of Parliament. "

So whether we leave or not could depend on whether MP's vote in line with their stated preference (A majority remain) or whether they feel that they need to represent what the country has demanded.

Clutching at straws springs to mind.

If there's one thing that unites all MPs it's that they do not intentionally commit political suicide.

Asking them or in your case pleading with them to go against the majority would be exactly that.

There is no rush. Why do you feel there needs to be?

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Clutching at straws springs to mind.

If there's one thing that unites all MPs it's that they do not intentionally commit political suicide.

Asking them or in your case pleading with them to go against the majority would be exactly that.

There is no rush. Why do you feel there needs to be?

No why should there be any delay? The longer the delay the more obstacles get put in the way.

This is what Cameron said when setting out the terms of the referendum in February

“If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away."

Then he conveniently buggered off so as to avoid having to do what he promised.

In time the whole thing will become chip paper and the vast majority won't really give a toss, which appears to be the plan.

Swept under a convenient carpet, we will never leave.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Clutching at straws springs to mind.

If there's one thing that unites all MPs it's that they do not intentionally commit political suicide.

Asking them or in your case pleading with them to go against the majority would be exactly that.

There is no rush. Why do you feel there needs to be?

Exactly. There will quite obviously be a massive amount  of preparation work going on right now with regard to triggering Article 50.

Slightly odd that the only people that seem to be demanding it be done 'yesterday' are those who voted to remain.

Shorely it is best that it be done 'correctly' rather than 'quickly'?

Czarcasm wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Clutching at straws springs to mind.

If there's one thing that unites all MPs it's that they do not intentionally commit political suicide.

Asking them or in your case pleading with them to go against the majority would be exactly that.

There is no rush. Why do you feel there needs to be?

Exactly. There will quite obviously be a massive amount  of preparation work going on right now with regard to triggering Article 50.

Slightly odd that the only people that seem to be demanding it be done 'yesterday' are those who voted to remain.

Shorely it is best that it be done 'correctly' rather than 'quickly'?

I'm not demanding anything of the sort you're putting words into my mouth, I'm questioning why it hasn't been activated yet when it was clearly promised that it would happen .

What is there to be discussed? The country voted to leave the EU.

As for the huge amount of preparation work, would that be Liam Fox trying to conduct trade talks and getting told to sling his hook.

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Face it there is no plan, because they didn't expect to win. why is why everyone involved in this debacle has vanished all of a sudden.

Which is why we won't leave because this country is utterly unequipped to do so.

I wasn't referring directly to you Hugh. I agree yeah, there wouldn't have been massive ground work put in prior to the referendum. But that's partly because there is no definitive short term time scale that has to be strictly adhered to.

For me it makes total sense to try and do it right, rather than bulldoze it thru. What is the rush ?