EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

Charlie Wood wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Another pointless chart from Frannie. How many from each country are living outside their country but still in the EU. I know I'm not.

Google is your friend too.

Look it up.

I've got far better things to do with my time, I was just pointing out another of your misleading stats. You'd have done well working for the Remain campaign. (In the wider world, not just on here).

Maybe you should make an effort to better inform yourself (just saying like!).

Anyhow, 2 minutes of my life just for you Charlie.

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Sigh, I'm reluctant to get drawn in to your scab picking John but you should know that my opinions and decision over which way to vote in the recent referendum were not and would not have been influenced by any "research" I may or may not have conducted in the last few months, they have been formed over the last 30 years, particularly in the last 10 years when my industry (including ALL our European colleagues) fought hard to defeat an EU Commission Directive in the European Parliament (a pretty rare event I should think). That was not an end to it though, a few years later the new Commissioner responsible tried again and was defeated again and now it's back on the table (deliberately held back until after the Referendum though). A perfect example of democracy not in action and the mindset of the Commission.

I was and am fully aware of the short/medium term economic consequences of a leave vote, it impacts me particularly negatively but a price I personally prepared to pay for this country to regain it's primacy in the law making process. The future is unknown now but I have no reason to believe, in the fullness of time, the UK cannot thrive and prosper as a Sovereign nation. I'm also sure that your status and all those like you will not change. We can all live and work in pretty much every country in the world...if we can meet that countries requirements. My son teaches in Australia, a difficult process but ultimately obtainable, allowing him to fulfill his dream. I have retired to South Africa and am now a  permanent resident of that country, I had to prove my financial independence to achieve that aim. In both cases I don't consider there's anything unreasonable about that.

Fair enough Charlie, we are all entitled to our opinions. At least you have actually explained why.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Charlie Wood wrote:

Another pointless chart from Frannie. How many from each country are living outside their country but still in the EU. I know I'm not.

Google is your friend too.

Look it up.

I've got far better things to do with my time, I was just pointing out another of your misleading stats. You'd have done well working for the Remain campaign. (In the wider world, not just on here).

I'm puzzled: How are these statistics misleading?

I'm afraid your disingenuous innocence doesn't wash with me. You know fine well your intention in posting an EU stat would give the impression at a casual glance that those figures showed the totals that lived in other EU countries.

If you look at all the options available to the (new) UK PM right now, they are either politically unviable or economically disastrous.

Nobody has any real answers and nobody knows what will happen post Brexit.

This, IMO explains why Brexit has not happened yet - if it happens at all!

I do not mind losing a vote but what I do object to is that 36% of the electorate are able to potentially ruin the UK by voting in a referendum based on lies and fear (both sides)!

For me, that is not democracy in action!

It is democracy in action because only 34% voted to remain.

That means the remain camp lost in a democratic vote.

The turnout was 72% of those people who were eligible to vote.

That means 28% of those people who were eligible to vote were unable to do so, like my Wife and my Father (both leavers) or they could not be bothered to do so.

It has been said that this vote will effect the young more that us oldies but only 36% of 18 to 24 year olds voted.

That means 64% of 18 to 24 year olds who were eligible to vote were unable to do so or they could not be bothered.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

It is democracy in action because only 34% voted to remain.

That means the remain camp lost in a democratic vote.

The turnout was 72% of those people who were eligible to vote.

That means 28% of those people who were eligible to vote were unable to do so, like my Wife and my Father (both leavers) or they could not be bothered to do so.

It has been said that this vote will effect the young more that us oldies but only 36% of 18 to 24 year olds voted.

That means 64% of 18 to 24 year olds who were eligible to vote were unable to do so or they could not be bothered.

Wouldn't waste your time mate, might as well go and tell the goldfish. Didn't hear a peep from the bloke before the referendum about how undemocratic it was when remain was favourite to win, which tells its own story. The bleatings of a sore loser, fed up to the back teeth with his sad nonsense in all truth. If the boot was on the other foot and leave had lost, the scenario on here would probably have been on the lines of a couple of "hope for everyone's sake that the right decision was made" posts and that would have been it, get on with it no matter how much you disagreed with the outcome. Almost sorry that leave won, this site would have been better for it if nothing else.

Greenskin wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

It is democracy in action because only 34% voted to remain.

That means the remain camp lost in a democratic vote.

The turnout was 72% of those people who were eligible to vote.

That means 28% of those people who were eligible to vote were unable to do so, like my Wife and my Father (both leavers) or they could not be bothered to do so.

It has been said that this vote will effect the young more that us oldies but only 36% of 18 to 24 year olds voted.

That means 64% of 18 to 24 year olds who were eligible to vote were unable to do so or they could not be bothered.

Wouldn't waste your time mate, might as well go and tell the goldfish. Didn't hear a peep from the bloke before the referendum about how undemocratic it was when remain was favourite to win, which tells its own story. The bleatings of a sore loser, fed up to the back teeth with his sad nonsense in all truth. If the boot was on the other foot and leave had lost, the scenario on here would probably have been on the lines of a couple of "hope for everyone's sake that the right decision was made" posts and that would have been it, get on with it no matter how much you disagreed with the outcome. Almost sorry that leave won, this site would have been better for it if nothing else.

I'm quite aware that more people voted to Leave than voted to remain and accept that.

The fact that it was based on lies doesn't seem to worry you.

Let's just agree to disagree and see what happens.

I bet that you will be more disappointed with the overall outcome when all is finally resolved than I will be.

But it comes across as you don't accept it or you wouldn't say things like...

Quote :

For me, that is not democracy in action!

The remain camp were pretty quick on the lies, the bullying and personal abuse of people like Johnson and farage when things started to go the leave camp's way.

I have never been a big fan of Johnson but the abuse he took from some remain people was disgusting and the fact he didn't stoop to their level says a lot about the man.

As for seeing what happens I think it will be the eu which will cause the most problems during our exit.

Article 50 has to be enacted yet. And with a Pro EU Theresa May heading for conservative leadership that's going to get pushed under the carpet..

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Greenskin wrote:

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

It is democracy in action because only 34% voted to remain.

That means the remain camp lost in a democratic vote.

The turnout was 72% of those people who were eligible to vote.

That means 28% of those people who were eligible to vote were unable to do so, like my Wife and my Father (both leavers) or they could not be bothered to do so.

It has been said that this vote will effect the young more that us oldies but only 36% of 18 to 24 year olds voted.

That means 64% of 18 to 24 year olds who were eligible to vote were unable to do so or they could not be bothered.

Wouldn't waste your time mate, might as well go and tell the goldfish. Didn't hear a peep from the bloke before the referendum about how undemocratic it was when remain was favourite to win, which tells its own story. The bleatings of a sore loser, fed up to the back teeth with his sad nonsense in all truth. If the boot was on the other foot and leave had lost, the scenario on here would probably have been on the lines of a couple of "hope for everyone's sake that the right decision was made" posts and that would have been it, get on with it no matter how much you disagreed with the outcome. Almost sorry that leave won, this site would have been better for it if nothing else.

I'm quite aware that more people voted to Leave than voted to remain and accept that.

The fact that it was based on lies doesn't seem to worry you.

Let's just agree to disagree and see what happens.

I bet that you will be more disappointed with the overall outcome when all is finally resolved than I will be.

Most General Election manifesto's in the main turn out to be fiction with the electorate being fed a load of bollocks which a majority fall for and we all have to put up with it, like it or not.

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Quite right too.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

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Quite right too.

But why did the goverment MPs mostly abstain????

The right thing to do, and I am sure that the EU will also be called to commit with urgency to giving UK nationals currently living in the EU the right to remain.

What I thought interesting was the "approximately 3m Euro nationals living in the UK" in comparison to the 5.4m British citizens living in the EU.

Outgoers nearly double incomers in number - so much for being swamped!

Factor in that about half of our immigration comes from non-EU countries and could be stopped in its entirety instantly (were it possible to control as easily as some would suggest) whether we are in the EU or not.

It also goes to show how narrow and fundamentally misleading the debate on immigration has been.

I don't know why the Tories abstained. I think the 2 votes were from the ministers who had to be there and the rank-and-file Tories didn't so much abstain as not turn up at all.

ooh Er Missus!

Leadsom sounds "Trump like".

"Opening her Conservative leadership speech, Andrea Leadsom says: "I truly believe we can be the greatest nation on earth."

In what could be seen as a jibe at Chancellor George Osborne, she says "prosperity should be our goal, not austerity", adding that she wants to spread prosperity to every corner of the country.

She says she wants higher pay for the many, and a country where anyone who aims high "can achieve their dreams".

"Let's banish the pessimists," she adds."


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WTF!!!!  The "hooray" at the end!!!

These people are running the country!!!

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I don't recall her voting with any regularity, or indeed even once, against any of Osborne's austerity measures.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What I thought interesting was the "approximately 3m Euro nationals living in the UK" in comparison to the 5.4m British citizens living in the EU.

Outgoers nearly double incomers in number - so much for being swamped!

Factor in that about half of our immigration comes from non-EU countries and could be stopped in its entirety instantly (were it possible to control as easily as some would suggest) whether we are in the EU or not.

It also goes to show how narrow and fundamentally misleading the debate on immigration has been.

I don't know why the Tories abstained. I think the 2 votes were from the ministers who had to be there and the rank-and-file Tories didn't so much abstain as not turn up at all.

I don't know about 50% of our immigration is from outside the EU so I accept your right, however the significant difference is the control measures that immigrants outside the EU have to traverse to get into this country and to be able claim any arising benefits, whereas EU citizens don't.

Pisses me off when all the likes of us exiters want is to control immigration not stop it and classing us as racist because of that says more about the arrogance of those who brand us that way

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What I thought interesting was the "approximately 3m Euro nationals living in the UK" in comparison to the 5.4m British citizens living in the EU.

Outgoers nearly double incomers in number - so much for being swamped!

Factor in that about half of our immigration comes from non-EU countries and could be stopped in its entirety instantly (were it possible to control as easily as some would suggest) whether we are in the EU or not.

It also goes to show how narrow and fundamentally misleading the debate on immigration has been.

If it were only that simple.

This was touched on a few months back.

The population density of the EU averages 320 citizens to each square mile.
The population density of the UK averages 680 people to each square mile.

There is absolutely no comparison in terms of infrastructure.

Yet another uncomfortable truth you ignore.

Here's an article about the (lack of) Tory MPs yesterday.

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“Any decision to pre-empt our future negotiations would risk undermining our ability to secure those arrangements and protect the interests of EU nationals and British nationals alike and to get the best outcomes for both.”

Here's a list of population densities.

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Britain lies behind Belgium, Holland, Monaco, San Marino, the Vatican and Gibraltar.

Gibraltar voted over-whelmingly to stay in the EU.

I also note in passing that about half of the EU countries will be above an average.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What I thought interesting was the "approximately 3m Euro nationals living in the UK" in comparison to the 5.4m British citizens living in the EU.

Outgoers nearly double incomers in number - so much for being swamped!

Factor in that about half of our immigration comes from non-EU countries and could be stopped in its entirety instantly (were it possible to control as easily as some would suggest) whether we are in the EU or not.

It also goes to show how narrow and fundamentally misleading the debate on immigration has been.

I don't know why the Tories abstained. I think the 2 votes were from the ministers who had to be there and the rank-and-file Tories didn't so much abstain as not turn up at all.

Why on earth are you still peddling these figures :-

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This being the relevant passage :-

"During the campaign, there were no suggestions from the Leave campaign that there would be mass deportations of the 3 million EU nationals living in the UK.
There is unlikely to be any change to their status while negotiations on Brexit are under way and it is generally expected that they will be able to stay after the UK leaves the EU.
The same is true of the estimated 1.2 million UK nationals living elsewhere in the EU."

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's a list of population densities.

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Britain lies behind Belgium, Holland, Monaco, San Marino, the Vatican and Gibraltar.

Gibraltar voted over-whelmingly to stay in the EU.

I also note in passing that about half of the EU countries will be above an average.

I fail to see what you're on about.

As you well know I was pointing the discrepancy in population density between the UK and the EU.

Most Brits will live in France and Spain.

Space not exactly at a premium there is it.

Likewise much of the UK.

Are you a non driver by chance? Cos you sound like one.

Where do you suggest we add more rail track? Are you aware of the number of tunnels and bridges per mile compared to European countries?

Where are all the houses to be built?

Go and find the stats to back your thoughts.

Might be a good idea to start with the Beano and work your way up to the Dandy.