Disqualification threat to England and Russia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213
150 well trained Russian thugs being blamed for trouble. Too many people jump to conclusions, immediately there was trouble cue loads of slagging of English fans. From what I've seen it was hoolies attacking drunken non violent fans, I've haven't seen any big group of our casuals involved.

The slagging of English behaviour has been in response to the usual disgusting scenes for a couple of days BEFORE the game. That obviously doesn't count in your eyes. The Russian people have also been slagged for their behaviout. too, and are far more organised. Of course your "casuals" aren't going to take on thugs who are basically para militaries, with a para military attitude.

Please don't make out that people here have only commented on one side of the coin. look at the threads. You're doing another Sr Frank hatchet job, deliberately misrepresenting peoples comments. You have a flag issue and it's flapping in front of your eyes. How about a wider perspective.

Some people seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between being drunk, shouting distasteful obscenities and reacting to extreme provocation, in comparison to instigating well-rehearsed organised attacks.

Lord Biro wrote:

The slagging of English behaviour has been in response to the usual disgusting scenes for a couple of days BEFORE the game. That obviously doesn't count in your eyes. The Russian people have also been slagged for their behaviout. too, and are far more organised. Of course your "casuals" aren't going to take on thugs who are basically para militaries, with a para military attitude.

Please don't make out that people here have only commented on one side of the coin. look at the threads. You're doing another Sr Frank hatchet job, deliberately misrepresenting peoples comments. You have a flag issue and it's flapping in front of your eyes. How about a wider perspective.

Yah, yah foreshore, you support the Manager and I am a "flag waver!" Don't go bandying around thinly veiled snipes at me and mine and I'll be more respectful of you. As for pissed up English fans deserving to be beaten into a coma with iron bars by highly organised Russian thugs, are you for real?
Gotta go off to make my flag up saying "For Boris, Nigey and St. George!" I'm off to Lille.

Czarcasm wrote:

Some people seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between being drunk, shouting distasteful obscenities and reacting to extreme provocation, in comparison to instigating well-rehearsed organised attacks.

Plenty of difference but one does not excuse the other. Whilst the Russian attacks looked more sinister and terrifying, there is little doubt that there were plenty of English involved in the same old tired posturing, right-wing chanting and generally loutish behaviour.

I'd say the main difference is that the latter is more preventable - cut off the alcohol supply in the local bars/supermarkets for 48 hours around a game. The English behaviour is booze-fuelled. The kind of thing we saw from the Russians was planned.

Lord Biro wrote:

The slagging of English behaviour has been in response to the usual disgusting scenes for a couple of days BEFORE the game. That obviously doesn't count in your eyes. The Russian people have also been slagged for their behaviout. too, and are far more organised. Of course your "casuals" aren't going to take on thugs who are basically para militaries, with a para military attitude.

Please don't make out that people here have only commented on one side of the coin. look at the threads. You're doing another Sr Frank hatchet job, deliberately misrepresenting peoples comments. You have a flag issue and it's flapping in front of your eyes. How about a wider perspective.

Most of our known hooligans can't near the place, when their passport gets scanned they will get section 21.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Some people seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between being drunk, shouting distasteful obscenities and reacting to extreme provocation, in comparison to instigating well-rehearsed organised attacks.

Plenty of difference but one does not excuse the other. Whilst the Russian attacks looked more sinister and terrifying, there is little doubt that there were plenty of English involved in the same old tired posturing, right-wing chanting and generally loutish behaviour.

I'd say the main difference is that the latter is more preventable - cut off the alcohol supply in the local bars/supermarkets for 48 hours around a game. The English behaviour is booze-fuelled. The kind of thing we saw from the Russians was planned.

Feck me this from a football fan who I know goes drinking before games? How many English fans are guilty of actual disorder? They are the ones that should be pulled by the police and dealt with. The truth is that the majority of English fans have done feck all else than what you and Dick Trick do throughout the whole season. Talk about knee jerk, you'd think this was a rugger forum with some of the comments.

Distasteful obscentities.... that's a new one Czarky
Funny how many with a nationalist tendency ( not directed at anyone in particular ), when casting their expert take on, say, violence at political demonstrations and the police role, have quite a different take on it. It's all one eyed stuff.

It's the same old football flag waving and having a ruck in France, with the added impetus of a nationalist referendum. If you keep on doing it, eventually you'll come up against a Keneth Noye, or a Sevastapol. Sadly, a referendum which I fully support the idea of having, has opened up a can of worms and old habits that had disappeared largely from England national games. It seems to have given  some of the wrong sort the idea they have now have a bit of political backing, just as the Russians believe, and probably do.

One thing about the alcohol ban. The French are being rather contradictory there, as they even forced the teetotal Disney to give up on his idea of an alcohol free Paris Disneyland. Nobody went there until they relented and started selling wine with their food  

I have never been a believer of alcohol causing all the football hooliganism. The grandstand at Argyle, likeat most football grounds, has always sold tons of the stuff right through the decades and troubles, with no real problems ever.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Some people seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between being drunk, shouting distasteful obscenities and reacting to extreme provocation, in comparison to instigating well-rehearsed organised attacks.

Plenty of difference but one does not excuse the other. Whilst the Russian attacks looked more sinister and terrifying, there is little doubt that there were plenty of English involved in the same old tired posturing, right-wing chanting and generally loutish behaviour.

I'd say the main difference is that the latter is more preventable - cut off the alcohol supply in the local bars/supermarkets for 48 hours around a game. The English behaviour is booze-fuelled. The kind of thing we saw from the Russians was planned.

Feck me this from a football fan who I know goes drinking before games? How many English fans are guilty of actual disorder? They are the ones that should be pulled by the police and dealt with. The truth is that the majority of English fans have done feck all else than what you and Dick Trick do throughout the whole season. Talk about knee jerk, you'd think this was a rugger forum with some of the comments.

You make my point for me - thanks. Yes, I get pissed before games, have done for years and it's part of the enjoyment....but I've never thrown a punch at anyone, lobbed a bottle at the police, or throw a chair (badly) in the general direction of someone. I've also never seen anything like that behaviour anywhere, at any football match - so I'm either drinking in the right places and/or it is something peculiar to England games.

I guess it comes down to where you draw the line. I think it's OK to have a few beers, be a bit boisterous, sing a few songs but when that goes over into - for example - offensive chanting, climbing street signs and generally winding up the locals, it's gone too far.

I agree that most of the English fans would have just been enjoying themselves within respectable boundaries but still too often for a significant minority it turns into something else.

Ruskies disqualified but disqualification suspended, last chance saloon or it's fuckoffski.

Some of the videos being posted by Russian thugs on social media are about as bad as it can get, bar blatently stabbing someone to death. Sky News have started showing some watered down ones where they are running through the Squares en masse attacking anyone in their path. Lots of innocent bystanders unconscious on the floor.

Pissed up English fans posturing and shouting offensive shit is a million miles from the Russian behaviour.

Les Miserable wrote:

Ruskies disqualified but disqualification suspended, last chance saloon or it's fuckoffski.

Great idea to host the World Cup there. Well done FIFA!

Correct me if I wrong but am sure 2-3 weeks ago it was announced to derision a 24 hour no booze ban was supposed to be operative before and after games.....??? Its clear the Ruskies should take "more" of the blame but the extensive footage I have watched has equally shown the usual tattoed fat bald England supporters gesturing shirtless and throwing bottles

I am always reluctant to assign blame for these things because unless you were there then you just don't know what happened.

For starters how many England fans were in Marseille? It looked like 30,000+ in the stadium but that's a guess. I'd assume the same number again without tickets. That's 60,000 people. How many caused a problem... 1000? (Another guess) That's a very small minority as a percentage.

So we're not talking about all England fans but some England fans - a relatively few some at that.

And then there's what actually kicked it all off... If somebody chucks a bottle at somebody else then what is the target likely to do other than chuck one back? And then the police pile in and then a whole chain of events has been set in place, we all see the photos and mobile phone footage and it all plays into the "scumbag England fans kicking off again" narrative which we've all seen, read and are all too familiar with.

And everybody is waiting for it to happen; and some are itching to cause it to happen...

Our fans are a target just about wherever they go. The local dickheads want to chin a Brit hoolie and all they need to do to create dozens of potential hoolies instantly is lob a bottle at them...

The local policing seems to show no common sense or empathy for the situations as they arise (and after the recent Islamic terrorist atrocities they are operating on a hair-trigger anyway) and go steaming in to administer a good ol' short, sharp shock as a warning to all concerned and then it escalates further, the England fans now feel targeted by everybody, because they are, and have to look out for themselves so paranoia abounds.

Mix in to that some hot weather, lots of alcohol, lots of other countries with similarly behaving football fans and then get what amounts to being teams of para-millitaries to use the mayhem as cover and off you go.

Maybe the only way is for games to be played in closed stadia or for the tournaments to be banned altogether because what has happened has been completely predictable.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Some people seem unable (or unwilling) to differentiate between being drunk, shouting distasteful obscenities and reacting to extreme provocation, in comparison to instigating well-rehearsed organised attacks.

Plenty of difference but one does not excuse the other. Whilst the Russian attacks looked more sinister and terrifying, there is little doubt that there were plenty of English involved in the same old tired posturing, right-wing chanting and generally loutish behaviour.

I'd say the main difference is that the latter is more preventable - cut off the alcohol supply in the local bars/supermarkets for 48 hours around a game. The English behaviour is booze-fuelled. The kind of thing we saw from the Russians was planned.

Feck me this from a football fan who I know goes drinking before games? How many English fans are guilty of actual disorder? They are the ones that should be pulled by the police and dealt with. The truth is that the majority of English fans have done feck all else than what you and Dick Trick do throughout the whole season. Talk about knee jerk, you'd think this was a rugger forum with some of the comments.

You make my point for me - thanks. Yes, I get pissed before games, have done for years and it's part of the enjoyment....but I've never thrown a punch at anyone, lobbed a bottle at the police, or throw a chair (badly) in the general direction of someone. I've also never seen anything like that behaviour anywhere, at any football match - so I'm either drinking in the right places and/or it is something peculiar to England games.

I guess it comes down to where you draw the line. I think it's OK to have a few beers, be a bit boisterous, sing a few songs but when that goes over into - for example - offensive chanting, climbing street signs and generally winding up the locals, it's gone too far.

I agree that most of the English fans would have just been enjoying themselves within respectable boundaries but still too often for a significant minority it turns into something else.

How do I make your point for you? I'm not condoning climbing street signs, criminal damage, throwing bottles, punching people, kicking people, I as Franny has done am illustrating that the majority of English fans have done nothing wrong or illegal, zilch, nada, nothing wrong. As for winding up the locals with offensive chanting? Offensive chanting would be referencing Hillsborough, dead players nazis ect. We've all heard it but who the feck but a complete idiot would condone it? I haven't and won't do ever. As for dirty northern bastards it's tongue in cheek and about as far as I'd go on the bad behaviour stakes. The majority of English fans and I wouldn't mind betting it's over 95% of them do no more than you or I and it's hypocritical of you to take the moral high ground.

Amsterdamage....I agree with you about the 95% but it's the 5% to which I refer. I can, do and will continue to take the moral high ground over them...they are pointless human beings.

Innocent Egbunike wrote:

Amsterdamage....I agree with you about the 95% but it's the 5% to which I refer. I can, do and will continue to take the moral high ground over them...they are pointless human beings.

As do I, I don't think you'll find anyone sticking up for them it's the carpet bombing of all fans that's riles me as a fan especially when coming from other fans who like to go and get pissed at the footy.

So, who is carpet bombing all fans then  ? anywhere ?
And by the way, I haven't been pissed at a footy match for 20 years. I found it spoiled my enjoyment of the game.
I like a pint in a pub on occasion though. Shall be imbibing at the mid Summer solstice next week once the sun has risen. Haven't seen much trouble at the stones. Hope that's ok.

This continual relating of alcohol to football thugs is unhelpful. I thought after the alcohol link was thoroughly disproved as the cause of English football fans dying at Hillsborough, we might have moved on from the alcohol thing. This nasty violence and disrespect is  an adenalin tribe male thug thing under flags of convenience.

Feckin flag wavers! You remind me of the Vic and Bob sketch with the snobby food critic with the lightbulb head hovering around the room only powered by his feeling of self importance.

I'll take that as a compliment. At least the light is on.
Debate the very clear point, or don't bother. I'm running out of patience with you. In fact, I've run out of patience with you.

Lord Biro wrote:

I'll take that as a compliment. At least the light is on.
Debate the very clear point, or don't bother. I'm running out of patience with you. In fact, I've run out of patience with you.

Good you gave up the debate with me a long time ago relying on innuendo, smear and pompous digs the last one criticising my kids was the last straw, we are finally singing from the same hymn sheet.

Q: If the Russians riot again who would be responsible for expelling them from the tournament?

A: Villar Llona.

Q: Who he?

A: Interim Head of UEFA.

Q: Any other jobs?

A: Funny you should mention that he is also FIFA's man i/c the 2018 World Cup.

Q: That's in Russia, isn't it?

A: You've got it!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/14/euro-2016-russia-world-cup-2018-football-politics-angel-maria-villar-llona

BREAKING NEWS: Russian 'ultras' attack English and Welsh fans in Lille as 'hyper violent' thugs ignore UEFA threat to ban their country from Euro 2016

VillageGreen wrote:

BREAKING NEWS: Russian 'ultras' attack English and Welsh fans in Lille as 'hyper violent' thugs ignore UEFA threat to ban their country from Euro 2016

Not quite.

The disqualification will only be activated if they cause trouble inside a stadium. Outside they can what they want.

If you were them and intent on causing trouble you'd wait for the third group game result to be known; once they are sure to be eliminated anyway disqualification hardly matters.

A fair number of Russians have been deported and one or two jailed.

Russian Neo-Nazi Alexander Shprygin is one of those deported.


Alexander Shprygin (L) and his football movement are backed by President Vladimir Putin

The far-right leader of the Russian footballer supporters' association is being thrown out of France following violence at the England-Russia Euro 2016 match in Marseille.

Alexander Shprygin is among 20 Russian fans being deported.
They were detained on Tuesday while travelling from Marseille to Lille to watch Russia face Slovakia.

Three other detained Russian fans have been jailed for up to two years over the violence in Marseille.

They are also banned from re-entering France for two years. The men received 12, 18 and 24 months in prison.

The arrests have angered Moscow, which summoned the French ambassador to protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36546183

The head of a leading Russian football supporters' association is among 43 Russian fans detained in France after violence in Marseille during the Euro 2016 championship.

The detention of Alexander Shprygin and his fellow fans has prompted an angry response from the Russian government, which has called in the French ambassador in protest.

Mr Shprygin's All-Russia Supporters Union is backed by the Kremlin. He is reported to hold far-right views and has been photographed giving a Nazi salute.

A hardcore supporter of Dynamo Moscow, he played a key role in the football club's fan movement in the 1990s. He then joined the LDPR, a pro-Kremlin nationalist party, and became an aide to one of its MPs, Igor Lebedev.

Pictures circulating on the internet show Mr Shprygin performing a Nazi salute at a concert given in 2001 by Korrozia Metalla, a heavy metal band also known for its extreme views. Some of its songs are banned in Russia for "inciting ethnic hatred".


Mr Shprygin has been photographed giving a Nazi salute, but later appeared on TV to deny far-right leanings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36539018