Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Les Miserable wrote:

Famous as fcuk.........how many Syrian refugees have been welcomed to the land of the free?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Over to Rickler on that one.

Contary to the opinion of some I don't know everything.

2,290 since the war began.
Of which 1925 were admitted last year.

The cap total on refugees from all countries this year is 85,000 but at least 10,000 of those admitted will be Syrians.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

zyph wrote:

lets get out before 75 million Turkish moslems arrive to undermine any wealth that the EU might have.....they are a poor country and will suck the life out of the EU.

Are you for real?

Give me strength!!

This is a fact....Turkey will one day be part of the EU.....although 97% of it is in ASIA.

They have a population of 75 million......a poor country....a moslem country.....if we stay in the EU in June we will not have another chance of opting out......at present the EU has 500 million people.....add 75 million moslems from Turkey and they become 15% of the total....The EU already has 27 countries.......the majority of them are poor and taking more out than ever they could give back.....add Turkey to that and you would find that the millions of £'s we give each day to the bottomless pit that is called the EU would significantly increase.......also you would find that Turks coming to the UK would make those that have come from Poland, Romania, Bulgaria look like a mere trickle.

It's you who need to wake up and be real to what will happen.....there is also three or four more poor eastern european countries queuing up to join as well.

Zyph, Turkey will never be in the EU. They know they won't ever join and think it's laughable we are even considering it.

Lets hope that your right Frank.....but as the eastern border of NATO I feel they have influence and have a leverage that could change minds.

At present these countries are in negotiations with the EU at different levels at present.

1.....Albania.....applied for full membership APR 2009......confirmed as candidate JUNE 2014.

2.....Macedonia.....applied for full membership MAR 2004......confirmed as candidate DEC 2005.

3.....Montenegro.....applied for full membership DEC 2008.....confirmed as candidate DEC 2010.

4.....Serbia.....applied for full membership DEC 2009.....confirmed as candidate MAR 2012.

......all these countries at different levels of negotiation with the EU.

5.....Turkey.....applied for full membership APR 1987.....confirmed as candidate DEC 1999.

.......negotiating since OCT 2005.....could well happen if Russia continue to show Empire building tendancies.

Not just my opinion Frank.

Les Miserable wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Quote :

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
   With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
   Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
   A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
   Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
   Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
   Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
   The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

   "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
   With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
   Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
   The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
   Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
   I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This is inscribed onto the Statue Of Liberty. The highlighted bit is the famous bit. It perfectly describes the Syrian refugees.

Famous as fcuk.........how many Syrian refugees have been welcomed to the land of the free?

The USA has it's bald eagle talons digging into countries all over the world....overwhelming influence and power drags the rest of western civilization along in it's wake......hence the mess that is the middle east.......don't quote what's on the Statue of Liberty......it's all a sham.

I've probably said this a few times, but I'll say it again....

The Syrians most desperately in need of help aren't the ones on the boats Frank would like to grant open house to. The ones on the boats are the cream at the top of the Syrian milk bottle. The ones who are strong. But most of all, they are the ones with the wherewithal and most importantly, the cash, to try and buy themselves out of a desperate situation in their homeland.

These are the very people that Syria will eventually desperately need to rebuild their infrastructure and their Country.

The ones who need help the most are the poor souls trapped in Homs, Aleppo and other cities who don't have any chance of even thinking of paying a trafficker.

The out campaign (which i support) may have suffered a real blow, it looks like Bellend Johnson the Mayor of London, will be voting to leave.

Rickler wrote:

MVL...

What would be your guess as to how many refugee's will enter the EEC in the next ten years?

Ok, I don't want to hijack the thread but this is a hot topic over here and is related to the whole EU question here as well.

I suppose it depends on how long the war lasts.

The only "refugees" should be from Syria. Syria has a population of around 23 million. They won't all come.

A lot of the Syrians aren't a problem. Most intend to go home as soon as it is safe to do so. The fact that most of the "refugees" are lone men (many of who have left their families behind!) is a big concern. A lot of them though believe that once they get here they can bring the whole family (gran and all) over.

The bigger problem are those from other countries (especially north Africa) pretending to be Syrian and only coming for what they can get. They have no respect for anyone.

Many of them have been told (and are demanding) that they will get a house, money and a car from Germany.

A lot of the "refugees" need medical attention on arrival. There is very little respect for women (even to those in authority trying to process them - some refuse to answer questions from a woman). There have been gang rapes in the "refugee" areas as well as various "rival" factions fighting each other.

There was a stabbing here a couple of weeks ago in one of the centres. Then there was the problem in Cologne (and as we have now found out a lot of other towns and cities too) on New Years Eve.

Whilst at first, the "refugees" were welcome, it's not the case so much anymore. Yes, there is a general sympathy for the geniune cases but also fears linked to crime, terrorism and general behavioural/cultural/integration issues. Especially with Shengen, allowing people once inside the EU to travel just about anywhere they want to (but not The UK).

Looking at the whole of the EU, The UK is not participating on the quota or relocation schemes. Sweden and Denmark are having a rethink. A lot of the eastern European countries are against taking too many (if any) "refugees". Talking to people here, the general concensus is turning towards "enough is enough".

This is an issue for the whole of The EU, not just The UK!

It's a mess and Germany is really struggling!.

It is a concern but I don't see it as a reason to leave The EU. Any influx to The UK will come as a result of the UK politicians, not the EU!

Before you ask.... my sources for the above are my conversations with local people, local newspapers and people who have worked processing the "refugees" or are working with them now.

I sometimes think of SFD as some sort of Chamberlain/Foot figure.

He has a simple view of humanity and that they all have nice thoughts.

Has history taught him nothing? Does he not know the Trojan Horse fable?

There will be a fair amount of refugees wishing to impart their religion on our society and their will is greater than our will is to stop them.

If Europe wants to take them in then fine, let them.

We, courtesy of the Channel, can be more choosy.

I see nothing wrong in being different and also see it being vital that we regain a democratic hold over our own lifestyle.

Apologies for being middle aged, white and male. Guilty as charged.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

The fact that most of the "refugees" are lone men (many of who have left their families behind!) is a big concern. A lot of them though believe that once they get here they can bring the whole family (gran and all) over.

The bigger problem are those from other countries (especially north Africa) pretending to be Syrian and only coming for what they can get. They have no respect for anyone.

Many of them have been told (and are demanding) that they will get a house, money and a car from Germany.

A lot of the "refugees" need medical attention on arrival. There is very little respect for women (even to those in authority trying to process them - some refuse to answer questions from a woman). There have been gang rapes in the "refugee" areas as well as various "rival" factions fighting each other.

There was a stabbing here a couple of weeks ago in one of the centres. Then there was the problem in Cologne (and as we have now found out a lot of other towns and cities too) on New Years Eve.

Whilst at first, the "refugees" were welcome, it's not the case so much anymore. Yes, there is a general sympathy for the geniune cases but also fears linked to crime, terrorism and general behavioural/cultural/integration issues. Especially with Shengen, allowing people once inside the EU to travel just about anywhere they want to (but not The UK).

Looking at the whole of the EU, The UK is not participating on the quota or relocation schemes. Sweden and Denmark are having a rethink. A lot of the eastern European countries are against taking too many (if any) "refugees". Talking to people here, the general concensus is turning towards "enough is enough".

This is an issue for the whole of The EU, not just The UK!

It's a mess and Germany is really struggling!.

It is a concern but I don't see it as a reason to leave The EU. Any influx to The UK will come as a result of the UK politicians, not the EU!

Before you ask.... my sources for the above are my conversations with local people, local newspapers and people who have worked processing the "refugees" or are working with them now.

Perhaps Sir Francis Merkel should extricate himself from the cosy surroundings of Buckland Abbey and spend some time in the fatherland on 'work experience'.

Czarcasm wrote:

I've probably said this a few times, but I'll say it again....

The Syrians most desperately in need of help aren't the ones on the boats Frank would like to grant open house to. The ones on the boats are the cream at the top of the Syrian milk bottle. The ones who are strong. But most of all, they are the ones with the wherewithal and most importantly, the cash, to try and buy themselves out of a desperate situation in their homeland.

These are the very people that Syria will eventually desperately need to rebuild their infrastructure and their Country.

The ones who need help the most are the poor souls trapped in Homs, Aleppo and other cities who don't have any chance of even thinking of paying a trafficker.

All of that may be true but it is irrelevant. We are where we are. The immediate crisis for us sits on the seas of the Med and in Southern Europe and is no less a problem just because there is a worse crisis somewhere else. Those people won't just vanish because they might be needed in Aleppo one day or because you think they should have stayed in Homs. They are either here already or on their way and are nearly here.

Nobody seems to be keen on answering The Boat Question, though, do they?

If anybody has a reasonable explanation as to why I'd like to hear it.

Here it is again for those who missed it.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's a simple question:

You are in a boat. It is out on the oggin somewhere. Unexpectedly you see somebody, somebody whose background or reasons for being there you are completely unaware of, struggling in the water. Do you pull them into your boat or just leave them to drown?

Latest reports estimate at least 5,000 islamist jihadis have arrived in the EU among the 'refugees'. With Greece effectively just waving migrants through I'd say it's probably a lot more than that. The jihadis arent the only problem as, more generally, the scale of migration into the EU is expected to be very singificantly higher this year than last so the problems involving hordes of single males from third world muslim countries of the sort we have seen in Germany, Sweden etc will also significanly increase. The UK isn't currently part of the quota scheme but Brussels is looking at effectively imposing sanctions on countries who don't currently participate. This cannot end well.

What latest estimates?

Who estimated that?

Where does the figure come from?

How do they know?

Or are we just making stuff up now?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What latest estimates?

Who estimated that?

Where does the figure come from?

How do they know?

I believe it was the head of Interpol, but hey, wtf does he know?

How was that figure arrived at?

Rithmatic, foreshore.

Les Miserable wrote:

Rithmatic, foreshore.

  Yep, no one can argue with maffs. Handed down in tablets of stone. There has never been more truth on our planet since people started counting.

Why would anybody be reluctant to say "I'd pull them into the boat"? Beats the shit out of me.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here it is again for those who missed it.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's a simple question:

You are in a boat. It is out on the oggin somewhere. Unexpectedly you see somebody, somebody whose background or reasons for being there you are completely unaware of, struggling in the water. Do you pull them into your boat or just leave them to drown?

Pull them into the boat of course. What's your point though?

BoJo for Brexit

The fact is that 11.5% of our population last year were not born here (source Wikipedia) it won't be long before we as the people of Britain are being dictated to by a foreign population within our own borders. I find it hard enough to bear that we are being dictated to by the Germans and French but I'm not going to apologise for wanting to actually have a bearing on the destiny of myself and my kids.
As for Frannies question ill answer it, I would undoubtably pull the person from the water who wouldn't but it's a different question to the one that should be asked which is should we just pull down the borders or better still build a big bridge across the channel? This idea that as we have an ageing population we need more people to look after them is absolute bullshit, we need to curb population growth to ease the pressure on dwindling resources.
You are also simplifying the vote question to arrive at the answer you wish to see ie, you are cool multicultural modern man and like every other bleeding heart liberal anyone who disagrees with you is a racist mysogianasitc Tory. The Europe question goes way beyond immigration, the £55m per day cost of belonging, the eu gravy train being used to misappropriate more and more of our wealth. Being involved in a huge superstate which smacks of federalism and a lust for power on a global scale turns me right off. I am confident in our abilities to run our country better than the combined governments of Europe that coincidentally haven't done a very good job in running their own. The disgraceful treatment of the old and poor in Greece whilst the rich still pay no tax and scam more and more wealth off those that can't afford it whilst being saluted by us and the Germans is another reason to want out.
If we at least have control of our own borders we can allow or refuse people access to our shores and wtf shouldn't we? You may be unable to reach a decision on your own but don't think that for one minute I am. I have always run my life myself and want to continue in that vein.

Les Miserable wrote:

BoJo for Brexit

Fascinating. Looks like Boris and his conspirators, and I don't mean Pasoti's Boris, have made their play for Cameron's job. Great stuff if you're into political infighting, and I wonder what other allies in the business world may now come out and support the blonde assassin. I wonder if Cammy wears a stab vest. Great picture on the BBC website. Should get a bit interesting. I do like watching a good competitive game when I don't care who wins the dormitory pillow fight. Lights out.

Certainly gives the out campaign a better chance of winning imo, and as you say, the infighting amongst the Tory party is going to be very interesting. Shit or bust for Dave methinks, lose the referendum and he's a dead man walking.