Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Lord Tisdale wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Finally made up my mind, OUT,  if you are a Westcountryman keep the French and Spanish fishermen out of our waters. Can also have a sensible milk marketing policy.

That is good PP, now are you prepared to get out there and campaign?

Cant I am disabled.

Flat_Track_Bully wrote:

I'm torn but it's probably out for me as well. In theory the EU is a good idea, but in practice it is undemocratic, bureaucratic and increasingly in the thrall of corporate vampires (read about the horrendous TTIP/ISDS thing). Of course you could say the same about our own government, but at least we have some hope of one day removing those f**kers.

Cameron's 'negotiations' are a smoke screen. The 'red tape' he is cutting is largely to stop regulation of his buddies in the financial services sector (remind me what happened recently that might have generate a need to regulate banks)? The stuff about migrant workers isn't going to solve the issues that large scale migration has caused and won't even reduce the welfare costs of immigration much anyway (which is pretty minimal in the large scale of things anyway).

The majority of the media,political class and business hierarchy will be pushing for an in vote. They had a narrow escape for the Scottish referendum and I reckon they won't be as lucky this time. Expect it to get dirty if the Out vote stays ahead in the polls.

Precisely Bully. At least our own charlatans can be held to account by us, faceless, anonymous Eurocrats can't.

Up to a point, the question we are asked is "which of these three lying cnuts would you prefer to rip you off for the next five years?" A bit like how would you like to die? Not really a good answer out there.

Can't argue with that but at least we get the 'satisfaction' of knowing who we're being shafted by.

So, if you are all so interested in the EU, how corrupt and nasty it is, then petition your Euro MP.

How many of you can (without looking it up - be honest) name your Euro MP????

I haven't met one person over here who knows who our local Euro MP is (me included).

The reason the EU politicians etc get an easy ride is because not enough people are really that interested.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, if you are all so interested in the EU, how corrupt and nasty it is, then petition your Euro MP.

How many of you can (without looking it up - be honest) name your Euro MP????

I haven't met one person over here who knows who our local Euro MP is (me included).

The reason the EU politicians etc get an easy ride is because not enough people are really that interested.

That's about the size of it.

pepsipete wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Finally made up my mind, OUT,  if you are a Westcountryman keep the French and Spanish fishermen out of our waters. Can also have a sensible milk marketing policy.

That is good PP, now are you prepared to get out there and campaign?

Cant I am disabled.

Please don't take any of what I am about to say personally it doesn't refer to yourself particularly but to your generation.

And it is about time you shut the feck up.

This country's demographic profile has seen the baby boomers, in particular, and the generations that came before, slightly less so, grab every advantage for themselves. They have enjoyed free education, a free NHS, free higher education, higher education grants, a reliable retirement age, tax relief on their mortgages and access to a host of benefits over the last 60 years or so and now they enjoy a state pension paid at a level that we'll probably never see bettered.

All the way along they have voted for themselves and that which benefits them and they have delivered unto the nation a succession of governments, of either hue, which have drifted ever further to the right as they have sought to maintain and improve the advantages they have always enjoyed. What matters is them and them alone.

Well that's not true. What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage but how many of the advantages taken as read by yourselves will they enjoy?

There's a retirement age that stretches away to infinity for starters. No tax relief on their mortgages but that doesn't matter because you haven't built enough housing for them ever to be able to afford a mortgage and crippling debts due to student loans and education fees make that unlikely before they even begin. We have an NHS that is being sold out from under our feet and nobody seems to be realising that it is happening or, perhaps more accurately, they are fully aware but another 1p on out income tax to pay for it? feck right off. That's what you can do.

And none of that, the nitty gritty stuff (health, housing, education, retirement) that defines what it really means to be a citizen of this realm has been dictated to us by EU, EC, EEC, ECHR or any of the rest of it. It has been gleefully voted for by the baby boomers who have done very nicely and now want to pull the ladder up behind them.

And it is these very same people who will be least effected by leaving the EU partly because they have a nice little nest egg to protect them, a decent pension and somewhere nice to live that are going to vote Out in their droves, completely against the wishes of the younger generations coming along behind them many of whom will NEVER have a vote on this at all (and you'd've had two, remember - you always get the most of everything in every way!).

If you are over the age of, say, 55 (it'll take at least 10 years before we actually leave even if we vote that way) then your race has been run. Do the decent thing and don't vote at all because leaving the EU is dependent upon your votes. Nobody else wants it. And you'll all be dead soon and you'll never have to face the consequences like today's teenagers will and they've been shafted enough as it is. They are now your grandchildren and great grandchildren. Don't forget that and stop feckin 'em over. You've done more than enough already. You've done very nicely for yourselves. Now please stop. Let someone else have a go.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, if you are all so interested in the EU, how corrupt and nasty it is, then petition your Euro MP.

How many of you can (without looking it up - be honest) name your Euro MP????

I haven't met one person over here who knows who our local Euro MP is (me included).

The reason the EU politicians etc get an easy ride is because not enough people are really that interested.

Our own prime minister got feck all in the way of concessions so how do you propose a two bit MEP could achieve changes ?
As democracies go it's pretty much on a par with pasoti.

No mention that I've seen of the prospect of Turkey & it's 80m population of a very different culture to ours becoming part of the EU in the near future as well as several brassic former eastern bloc & Yugslavian countries joining. That alone should be a reason to vote "Leave" aside from all the corruption & federalism. etc.

The EU has cost the UK thousands of jobs over the years, the fishing industry has been utterly decimated, farmers undercut with cheap subsidised EU imports, Bombardier jobs lost when a UK train contract went the the Krauts, Transit factory in Southampton closed when the EU paid Ford to set up in Turkey to boost it's economy. UK steel production made non-competitive due to EU "green taxes"

Iv'e not heard a single good reason to vote, "remain". "Better the devil you know" seems to be the best they can come up with.

Out!

The whole EU project is doomed anyway.

The referrendum this summer will be against a backdrop of a European migrant crisis on a scale we can't possibly imagine, even after last year. That'll sway a few waverers to vote leave.

FY 310 wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

So, if you are all so interested in the EU, how corrupt and nasty it is, then petition your Euro MP.

How many of you can (without looking it up - be honest) name your Euro MP????

I haven't met one person over here who knows who our local Euro MP is (me included).

The reason the EU politicians etc get an easy ride is because not enough people are really that interested.

Our own prime minister got feck all in the way of concessions so how do you propose a two bit MEP could achieve changes ?
As democracies go it's pretty much on a par with pasoti.

No mention that I've seen of the prospect of Turkey & it's 80m population of a very different culture to ours becoming part of the EU in the near future as well as several brassic former eastern bloc & Yugslavian countries joining. That alone should be a reason to vote "Leave" aside from all the corruption & federalism. etc.

The EU has cost the UK thousands of jobs over the years, the fishing industry has been utterly decimated, farmers undercut with cheap subsidised EU imports, Bombardier jobs lost when a UK train contract went the the Krauts, Transit factory in Southampton closed when the EU paid Ford to set up in Turkey to boost it's economy. UK steel production made non-competitive due to EU "green taxes"  

Iv'e not heard a single good reason to vote, "remain".  "Better the devil you know" seems to be the best they can come up with.    

And I've not heard a single good argument to get out of the EU except "it might be better"!

The EU hasn't "fecked the UK up", we've done that ourselves over the years!

As for Turkey joining, that's just words! If Turkey ever join, then that WILL be the end of the EU.

Most people over here are not happy with the EU and would like to see some change. They are not stupid enough to leave in a hissy fit though.

We all know the EU is not perfect and needs to change. Cameron has at least made an effort and other EU members will follow.

The EU is also made the scapegoat to cover up the inadequacies of our own illustrious leaders.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Finally made up my mind, OUT,  if you are a Westcountryman keep the French and Spanish fishermen out of our waters. Can also have a sensible milk marketing policy.

That is good PP, now are you prepared to get out there and campaign?

Cant I am disabled.

Please don't take any of what I am about to say personally it doesn't refer to yourself particularly but to your generation.

And it is about time you shut the feck up.

This country's demographic profile has seen the baby boomers, in particular, and the generations that came before, slightly less so, grab every advantage for themselves. They have enjoyed free education, a free NHS, free higher education, higher education grants, a reliable retirement age, tax relief on their mortgages and access to a host of benefits over the last 60 years or so and now they enjoy a state pension paid at a level that we'll probably never see bettered.

All the way along they have voted for themselves and that which benefits them and they have delivered unto the nation a succession of governments, of either hue, which have drifted ever further to the right as they have sought to maintain and improve the advantages they have always enjoyed. What matters is them and them alone.

Well that's not true. What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage but how many of the advantages taken as read by yourselves will they enjoy?

There's a retirement age that stretches away to infinity for starters. No tax relief on their mortgages but that doesn't matter because you haven't built enough housing for them ever to be able to afford a mortgage and crippling debts due to student loans and education fees make that unlikely before they even begin. We have an NHS that is being sold out from under our feet and nobody seems to be realising that it is happening or, perhaps more accurately, they are fully aware but another 1p on out income tax to pay for it? feck right off. That's what you can do.

And none of that, the nitty gritty stuff (health, housing, education, retirement) that defines what it really means to be a citizen of this realm has been dictated to us by EU, EC, EEC, ECHR or any of the rest of it. It has been gleefully voted for by the baby boomers who have done very nicely and now want to pull the ladder up behind them.

And it is these very same people who will be least effected by leaving the EU partly because they have a nice little nest egg to protect them, a decent pension and somewhere nice to live that are going to vote Out in their droves, completely against the wishes of the younger generations coming along behind them many of whom will NEVER have a vote on this at all (and you'd've had two, remember - you always get the most of everything in every way!).

If you are over the age of, say, 55 (it'll take at least 10 years before we actually leave even if we vote that way) then your race has been run. Do the decent thing and don't vote at all because leaving the EU is dependent upon your votes. Nobody else wants it. And you'll all be dead soon and you'll never have to face the consequences like today's teenagers will and they've been shafted enough as it is. They are now your grandchildren and great grandchildren. Don't forget that and stop feckin 'em over. You've done more than enough already. You've done very nicely for yourselves. Now please stop. Let someone else have a go.

"It's about time you shut the feck up"

What a complete load of rubbish. You almost makes it look like the younger generations are incapable of doing anything for themselves - maybe they are? Well tough shit then..


PS. How's it going with the Syrians living at your house?

How many Syrian refugees are in the UK?

The UK has opted out of the quota system. And The UK and Denmark are not participating in the relocation scheme.

Next argument please....


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Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

How many Syrian refugees are in the UK?

Not enough, according to Frankie boy...

Rickler wrote:

You almost makes it look like the younger generations are incapable of doing anything for themselves - maybe they are? Well tough shit then..

And there, ladies and gentlemen, you have the comment that proves my point.

Thanks, Rickler. Couldn't have put it any better myself as a summary of the problem.

It doesn't prove your point at all. The fact you think it does, is the real problem.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Finally made up my mind, OUT,  if you are a Westcountryman keep the French and Spanish fishermen out of our waters. Can also have a sensible milk marketing policy.

That is good PP, now are you prepared to get out there and campaign?

Cant I am disabled.

Please don't take any of what I am about to say personally it doesn't refer to yourself particularly but to your generation.

And it is about time you shut the feck up.

This country's demographic profile has seen the baby boomers, in particular, and the generations that came before, slightly less so, grab every advantage for themselves. They have enjoyed free education, a free NHS, free higher education, higher education grants, a reliable retirement age, tax relief on their mortgages and access to a host of benefits over the last 60 years or so and now they enjoy a state pension paid at a level that we'll probably never see bettered.

All the way along they have voted for themselves and that which benefits them and they have delivered unto the nation a succession of governments, of either hue, which have drifted ever further to the right as they have sought to maintain and improve the advantages they have always enjoyed. What matters is them and them alone.

Well that's not true. What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage but how many of the advantages taken as read by yourselves will they enjoy?

There's a retirement age that stretches away to infinity for starters. No tax relief on their mortgages but that doesn't matter because you haven't built enough housing for them ever to be able to afford a mortgage and crippling debts due to student loans and education fees make that unlikely before they even begin. We have an NHS that is being sold out from under our feet and nobody seems to be realising that it is happening or, perhaps more accurately, they are fully aware but another 1p on out income tax to pay for it? feck right off. That's what you can do.

And none of that, the nitty gritty stuff (health, housing, education, retirement) that defines what it really means to be a citizen of this realm has been dictated to us by EU, EC, EEC, ECHR or any of the rest of it. It has been gleefully voted for by the baby boomers who have done very nicely and now want to pull the ladder up behind them.

And it is these very same people who will be least effected by leaving the EU partly because they have a nice little nest egg to protect them, a decent pension and somewhere nice to live that are going to vote Out in their droves, completely against the wishes of the younger generations coming along behind them many of whom will NEVER have a vote on this at all (and you'd've had two, remember - you always get the most of everything in every way!).

If you are over the age of, say, 55 (it'll take at least 10 years before we actually leave even if we vote that way) then your race has been run. Do the decent thing and don't vote at all because leaving the EU is dependent upon your votes. Nobody else wants it. And you'll all be dead soon and you'll never have to face the consequences like today's teenagers will and they've been shafted enough as it is. They are now your grandchildren and great grandchildren. Don't forget that and stop feckin 'em over. You've done more than enough already. You've done very nicely for yourselves. Now please stop. Let someone else have a go.

Why not go the whole hog and stop over 55's from voting and introduce playground ballot boxes as well? Diabolical post,who the feck exactly do you think you are,the all-seeing eye?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage

You sound like some Tory think tank advocating generation wars. Next you'll be saying the under 16 Argyle fans paying diddly are more important than the current adult fans. I have never understood that logic. At what point does a favoured young human become a sacrificial old human.  Do you have a thing about fully fledged adults ?

I've got news for you. That boomer generation have paid for their own pensions throughout their working life. The money is already earned, the wealth already created. In effect, it's called saving. And they've fought for those better conditions and continuing NHS free at the point of delivery.   The next generation aren't supporting them, they will be working to support themselves in their own dotage. And many many of them will get a nice hand me down into the bargain, something most baby boomers never got.
I think those kids need to get their act together quick. They need to get real, and aim for the real enemy, not their grandparents/parents.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage

So, we "oldies" have to also think about the legacy we wish to leave the "youngsters" and think about that when we vote.

I think that you'll find that most of the "youngsters" are far less homo/zeno etc phobic than us "oldies". Freedom to travel and work/study anywhere in Europe is also very popular with them. So, taking the future generations into account, staying in the EU may be the better choice.

Absolutely stay.

Will be fun watching the Daily Mail and Lord Tis explode over the coming months as it becomes clear that we'll be remaining in the EU.

Rickler wrote:

It doesn't prove your point at all. The fact you think it does, is the real problem.

The consolation for all us old gits on here, battling against Sir Francis's unassailable logic is the fact he has a history of backing losing horses

Greenskin wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Finally made up my mind, OUT,  if you are a Westcountryman keep the French and Spanish fishermen out of our waters. Can also have a sensible milk marketing policy.

That is good PP, now are you prepared to get out there and campaign?

Cant I am disabled.

Please don't take any of what I am about to say personally it doesn't refer to yourself particularly but to your generation.

And it is about time you shut the feck up.

This country's demographic profile has seen the baby boomers, in particular, and the generations that came before, slightly less so, grab every advantage for themselves. They have enjoyed free education, a free NHS, free higher education, higher education grants, a reliable retirement age, tax relief on their mortgages and access to a host of benefits over the last 60 years or so and now they enjoy a state pension paid at a level that we'll probably never see bettered.

All the way along they have voted for themselves and that which benefits them and they have delivered unto the nation a succession of governments, of either hue, which have drifted ever further to the right as they have sought to maintain and improve the advantages they have always enjoyed. What matters is them and them alone.

Well that's not true. What matters the most are the generations yet to come; the generations who will do the work, create the wealth and pay the taxes that will support you in your dotage but how many of the advantages taken as read by yourselves will they enjoy?

There's a retirement age that stretches away to infinity for starters. No tax relief on their mortgages but that doesn't matter because you haven't built enough housing for them ever to be able to afford a mortgage and crippling debts due to student loans and education fees make that unlikely before they even begin. We have an NHS that is being sold out from under our feet and nobody seems to be realising that it is happening or, perhaps more accurately, they are fully aware but another 1p on out income tax to pay for it? feck right off. That's what you can do.

And none of that, the nitty gritty stuff (health, housing, education, retirement) that defines what it really means to be a citizen of this realm has been dictated to us by EU, EC, EEC, ECHR or any of the rest of it. It has been gleefully voted for by the baby boomers who have done very nicely and now want to pull the ladder up behind them.

And it is these very same people who will be least effected by leaving the EU partly because they have a nice little nest egg to protect them, a decent pension and somewhere nice to live that are going to vote Out in their droves, completely against the wishes of the younger generations coming along behind them many of whom will NEVER have a vote on this at all (and you'd've had two, remember - you always get the most of everything in every way!).

If you are over the age of, say, 55 (it'll take at least 10 years before we actually leave even if we vote that way) then your race has been run. Do the decent thing and don't vote at all because leaving the EU is dependent upon your votes. Nobody else wants it. And you'll all be dead soon and you'll never have to face the consequences like today's teenagers will and they've been shafted enough as it is. They are now your grandchildren and great grandchildren. Don't forget that and stop feckin 'em over. You've done more than enough already. You've done very nicely for yourselves. Now please stop. Let someone else have a go.

Why not go the whole hog and stop over 55's from voting and introduce playground ballot boxes as well?

Most of the ballot boxes are in schools anyway and I'd certainly advocate lowering the voting age to 16. So yes. Why not?

Charlie Wood wrote:

Rickler wrote:

It doesn't prove your point at all. The fact you think it does, is the real problem.

The consolation for all us old gits on here, battling against Sir Francis's unassailable logic is the fact he has a history of backing losing horses

What's confused me the most, is that whilst I'm now sadly closer to 50 than I am to 40, and I had Franny down as being a fair few years senior to me!

Here's the manifesto.

Someone's been at the Harveys Bristol Cream.