The EU referendum rolls on and on.

You mean you don't read the guardian?

Don't read any papers Les an insult to the intelligence on the whole and the Mail is one of my more despised ones but there you go. I get all my news online or televisually. The Beeb is professionally presented but more and more biased and influenced then most people realise I find watching that and Russia today then go down the middle to find the real news is the way forward. Al Jazeera is good online for world news, Channel four news is the best telly wise. I thought the guardian was more bleeding heart liberal than left wing tbh but then I'm not an expert. As for the red tops they epitomise what is wrong with "the news." "curvy Louise from Barnsley thinks that we should stay in Europe because..." Franny will shit when he reads that.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

The polls do appear to be wildly wrong(again), most people I've spoken to on the subject want out.

Which Conservative club do you drink in?

Blown your cover?

The issues are to complex for the average person to understand. Parliament is dodging its responsibility by holding a referendum. It is all to do with avoiding a split in the Conservative party.

Don't worry your pretty little head about it Pete. If the government thought there was any chance whatsoever of losing the referendum, it wouldn't hold it. An exercise in nation bonding, apart from a few irate little englanders.
It's not complex. in or out, couldn't be simpler. The real decision was taken when the uk stayed out of the Euro, although that tory goon Lamont ? made a right expensive mess of it with his ERM that was a licence to print money. Who said the Tories are competent with the economy ? Crazy posh school simpletons.

Hugh Watt wrote:

So we should leave the EU because we have a trade deficiit which is now a national embarrassment?

Our exports to the EU were around 45% of total exports, hows that for fundametals? Not hard is it?

You really are a complete Cock, Turds.

If a Freighter leaves the Uk with a cargo of JCB's and drops anchor in Rotterdam harbour, all the JCB's are listed as exports to the EU even if they only unload 5 or 6 and the rest go elsewhere in the world. That's how they fiddle things.

Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU in a letter to a friend 30th April 1952).

"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually lead to federation."

The whole EU business stinks and I want out of it. Vote OUT

You don't have to be racist to support UKIP but it definitely helps.

I don't really get the passion for nationalism at all. I quite enjoy having a team to support in the World Cup, 6 Nations, Olympics and so on but that's about it.

I can quite easily live with being a European just as I can happily live with with being British, English and Plymothian. I'm no less Plymothian because I am English so why should I be less British if I am a European?

I'm not even sure that I feel any pride in any of those things for their own sake. I'm certainly grateful. I'm very lucky to have been born where I was and all the advantages that have followed as a result are, at the very least, extremely welcome but I am very aware that I've done next to nothing to earn them and I don't deserve them any more than anybody in any other country does.

Essentially people the world over all want the same things: food to eat, water to drink, somewhere comfortable to live and to be treated fairly according to my merits and I feel supportive of others who feel the same why whatever their nationality.

I suppose over all the Big Picture, for me, is that division is a bad thing and unity is a good thing and, practically, the very concept of nationhood, which very obviously predicates itself on division, and borders and all that goes with them is being overtaken by modernity in the shape of the jet engine, internet and corporate globalism. Fight for those things all you like but it's a losing, if not already lost, battle as pointless as any other exercise in futility.

I quite like the idea of no borders, a common currency, freedom of movement and common regulations. They all make life much simpler and much fairer. The system we currently have itself is clearly lacking in many areas but that isn't any reason to scrap it altogether. We should all be working as one to improve it. Instead of which we seem hell bent on making ourselves as unpopular as we can which is a very strange negotiating tactic and one doomed ultimately to failure.

As an aside, I struggle to watch RT for any length of time. The occasional excellent documentary doesn't really make up for the other 22hrs of Kremlin propaganda, for me. The beeb is flawed, but the fact that it regularly still annoys the government of the day shows that it has some teeth at least. RT seems intent on insisting the West is wrong (even when they're right) whilst avoiding being sacked and/or gulaged by that nice Mr Putin.

Although some of its newsreaders are very easy on the eye... (maybe that should be in the sexist thread?)

Anyway. Europe: good. European Commission: bad. Probably vote to stay in and hope the next government drive through reform (presumably while £50 notes fall from the sky, and I awaken to find that my wife looks the spit of Abby Martin.)

Your nirvana would necessitate either a large rifle or a large tub of Vaseline to get your daily bread. Sadly a lot of the rest of Europe or the rest of the world want what you have and they don't like sharing. The only way to get what you want is to make everybody happy with their standard of living and life in their own country. We have a good standard of living but we are too small to accomadate everybody that wants to come here. How would we accomadate say ten million people in the next five years? We have Derriford on emergency stations and a housing shortage already not to mention food banks becoming the norm. If you had your way we would end up with an overpopulated country with collapsed public services, more people living in migrant camps (but over here) more poverty and even famine, how much of your standard of living are you prepared to sacrifice? Sounds like a lot more than I do that's foreshore.

MikeWN wrote:

As an aside, I struggle to watch RT for any length of time. The occasional excellent documentary doesn't really make up for the other 22hrs of Kremlin propaganda, for me. The beeb is flawed, but the fact that it regularly still annoys the government of the day shows that it has some teeth at least. RT seems intent on insisting the West is wrong (even when they're right) whilst avoiding being sacked and/or gulaged by that nice Mr Putin.

Although some of its newsreaders are very easy on the eye... (maybe that should be in the sexist thread?)

Anyway. Europe: good. European Commission: bad. Probably vote to stay in and hope the next government drive through reform (presumably while £50 notes fall from the sky, and I awaken to find that my wife looks the spit of Abby Martin.)  

The Beeb is as biased as the RT news without a doubt, as for gov critical do me favour, I wouldn't be surprised to find Kussenburg posting dogshit through Corbyns letterbox. As for European reform lol. No such thing, why would the rest of Europe allow it? The whips will be getting worn out at the moment I wonder if we will see a revolt?

Les Miserable wrote:

The polls do appear to be wildly wrong(again), most people I've spoken to on the subject want out.

Well there you go, the first poll since Pig Porking Dave gave us the word:- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A solid 9 point lead for the Leavers.

Gorgeous Dave appears to have his work cut out

pepsipete wrote:

The issues are to complex for the average person to understand.  Parliament is dodging its responsibility by holding a referendum.  It is all to do with avoiding a split in the Conservative party.

I hate the way people diss the public like this, the average person is perfectly capable of working out that he is being bent over for for a pooper probing.

It is also surprising that you ascribe MPs with greater intelligence or better judgement than the average Joe, in my experience our esteemed leaders tend to make the wrong decisions for all the wrong reasons.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

You don't have to be racist to support UKIP but it definitely helps.

What a tired and innately stupid comment, no surprise mind.

Les Miserable wrote:

Gorgeous Dave appears to have his work cut out

He certainly does, I suspect it may be beyond him.

I would put money on the vote being to stay in. People are generally conservative (small c) and don't like change.

I'm with SFD, one world, one love....geddon.

I noticed another poll this morning highlighted by Nick Robinson in his blog which details the difference between people based on qualifications.

Of those with degrees 78% want to remain in Europe compared to just 35% of those with no qualifications at all. Crusty old feckers were also more likely to want to leave the EU.

Step forward all you thick old codgers

Turkey's voting for Christmas?

You're not suggesting that every ponytailed wanker with a second in mejia studies is smarter than moi are you? Typical remark from a slightly educated wanker I would presume. There are a couple of holes in your argument, there are plenty of people like me with no degree (I do have quals but I left school as soon as I could with just basics and rest are work based c&g ect.) also the ratio of degree quals to no quals is not split anything like 70 30 in favour of the degree quals. It works better as an example of how easily led uni educated people are as opposed to how much better uni eds "see" things. It also reinforces those prejudices that uni eds are more worthy of the spoils of the world as opposed to the thickoes like me (who incidentally was placed in the top three per cent in an entrance exam to get free scholarship to fee paying school). Not a dig at you personally Dick but the generally oozing of superiority from the alumni.
If you want someone to talk about something then call in a uni person, if you need something doing call me or Suffs cos whilst you lot are all waffling we'd fix the problem with our superior common sense.

As for the vote I'd be surprised if it didn't go Daves way, he has the press in his pocket, he will stifle any meaningful debate then infer that it might cost the selfless British public an income tax rise if we leave. The British public love all theat low tax bullshit even tho they pay more and more tax all the time be it VAT, fuel duty, poll tax, stamp duty or cutting services that they already pay for then take more money from somewhere else to pay for it again.
It will be the same old story, if you leave Europe then bad things will happen, old Joe Public will fall for it hook line and sinker, unforch I think Pete has the measure of Joe more than Tis does.

I agree with all that 'amster. Schools, and universities, are mainly there to mould future workers into the way of the establishment,  to be steeped in currently politically acceptable "fact" and critique. It's the critique and supposed debate that cements the thought that those facts really must be the truth. Anyone who disagrees with the learned dons, and worse still, the corporate barons that then go on to employ these people, are summarily dismissed to the outer reaches of social acceptance, accompanied with a very nasty tattoo on their CV.
I'm not sure the "common sense" non degree bucket and shovel brigade are much better though. Look at Nool as an example. He would say he gets things done, yet I wouldn't describe him as bright. And he'd also love to tattoo your life's season ticket.

On the whole, I think we all, to some degree, over state our intelligence as a species. We really are just flocks of birds, but do a lot of debating before we take off, as to whether we could evolve more efficient wings. Now and again a kite or hawk picks one of us off, or an armed extremist farmer blasts us out of the sky, and that's that.

Dick Trickle wrote:

I noticed another poll this morning highlighted by Nick Robinson in his blog which details the difference between people based on qualifications.

Of those with degrees 78% want to remain in Europe compared to just 35% of those with no qualifications at all. Crusty old feckers were also more likely to want to leave the EU.

Step forward all you thick old codgers

That's a pretty dumb observation, back in the day one in ten used to go to university, now it's half the kids, the value of a degree is totally devalued unless you get a first in a proper subject from a decent uni like Exeter, the standard 2/2 in getting drunk and abusing animals from Plimuff Poly is hardly a mark of intelligence.

I employ loads of university grads, mainly girlies admittedly, lovely girls without exception but I would fancy my cat to understand a complex political question better.

Typical that it is a lefty tosser throwing flawed analysis around.

Amsterdamage wrote:

As for the vote I'd be surprised if it didn't go Daves way, he has the press in his pocket,

Do think so Hammy?

You are right about degrees, I employed literally hundreds of them over the years but generally found that non qualified kids were at least as bright but also applied themselves far better in a working environment.

Dave and the meeja is up in the air for me, he took a real slating from all the biggies over the negotiations, a lot of the editors and owners are proper right wing fascists with a penchant for disliking Johnny Foreigner, their blood might be stronger than their wallets.

Wait until nearer the time and well see how in fear of the pm the press are, mi5 will be digging dirt, skeletons in closets will be dusted off, stuff will be remembered and whips bought to bear I think the biggest threat to this process will come from the Tories themselves if they are allowed to. It will take a couple of big hitters to go against him but they will have to watch their backs forever after. It will be an interesting spectacle foreshore.

When the likes of Blair, Mandelson, Cameron, Obama & Goldman Sachs are saying we'd be better off in the EU it makes my decision on which way to vote an awful lot easier.