The EU referendum rolls on and on.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

You shmucks are so stupid about Europe.

If the West weren't so arrogant when the 'wall' crumbled then we wouldn't be in this position.

What gave us the right to entice the satellite countries of the Soviet Union to come on over.

Talk about rubbing your nose in it. Is it any wonder Putin is hitting back. Crimea's back where it belongs and East Ukraine will follow.

For me, bigger states means bigger wars. As in Nuclear.

You Corbynistas and Cameroons are so dumb.


Comon Rolly to really insult me you must decide what I am, I can't be a Red, A Corbynista and a Cameroon all at the same time, typical tory not getting his own way.

Dare to be critical of Corbyn (who I happen to like) and you must be a Tory.

Cameron is a con man (you don't say!) who doesn't represent me at all.

I detest the middle way but it's where we are, like it or not.

What's a Red? Communism is almost dead and Russia is as capitalist as the USA.

Not only that, they're also racist, homophobic and xenophobic.

Corruption, contradiction and hypocrisy rule everywhere.

I'm surprised that anybody could seriously consider the Cameron/Osborne axis to be at all centrist. They are following policies that would make Maggie blush. Not very long ago they'd've been considered hard right - and still should be.

Which suggests that the UK's politics has shifted miles and miles to the right.

Then again lots of people think Tony Blair was a lefty...

Which kind of underlines the point.

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

It would be interesting to hear what ATD members, who live outside of the UK, have to say about this referendum and what the media coverage in the country they live in is saying, especially those in EU countries.

I follow a lot of it, they are generally pretty disinterested as they do get little coverage in their local media, they think it is all bluster and will die down after a Remain vote which follows a few concessions of little worth.

In general Europeans seem to want us to stay in but would not be overly bothered if we left, bit like us and the Sweaties.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I'm surprised that anybody could seriously consider the Cameron/Osborne axis to be at all centrist. They are following policies that would make Maggie blush. Not very long ago they'd've been considered hard right - and still should be.

Which suggests that the UK's politics has shifted miles and miles to the right.

Then again lots of people think Tony Blair was a lefty...

Which kind of underlines the point.

C/O talk a game but their policies are seeing a continuation of Benefits Britain, lucky for you Gargs, while the debt rises ever higher, i would say they were wholly centrist, that's where the votes are, they just look a little righty because Jihad Jez and Provo John are such Trots.

The debt gets ever bigger because Osborne is a useless economist - a complete disaster. He's missed every target he has set himself and every prediction has been hogwash. It's hard to grasp exactly how poor he has been.

Useless economist? The equivalent to Egg and Bacon.

They're all useless.

Mind you Gordon wasn't. He'd just move the target if he missed it.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

You shmucks are so stupid about Europe.

If the West weren't so arrogant when the 'wall' crumbled then we wouldn't be in this position.

What gave us the right to entice the satellite countries of the Soviet Union to come on over.

Talk about rubbing your nose in it. Is it any wonder Putin is hitting back. Crimea's back where it belongs and East Ukraine will follow.

For me, bigger states means bigger wars. As in Nuclear.

You Corbynistas and Cameroons are so dumb.

Actually Rollo, I agree with most of that. Absolute madness to think you can just waltz up to the Russian border without consequence. Don't these people ever learn. There's a train of thought the neo cons in the US think they have a 30 year window to take out their main rivals, but who knows.
I doubt Corbyn thinks it was a great idea either to spread so far East. Corbynistas are a broad church, so broad in fact, I'm a green. It's not just who owns the resources that interests me, it's what resources you utilise.
I'm inclined to pull out of Europe due to the German strong arming of the Greeks, just so their banks wouldn't lose any money. Not happy with Westminster either. They're all capitalist oinks.  Happily, some of us can still vote with our feet. They haven't taken all freedoms away yet. Their technology spying concerns me greatly.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The debt gets ever bigger because Osborne is a useless economist - a complete disaster. He's missed every target he has set himself and every prediction has been hogwash. It's hard to grasp exactly how poor he has been.

Oh Franny, you are such a one eyed tw@, the Chancellor is a politician, this is not and has never been a requirement to have a knowledge of economics.

Pop quiz, who is the odd man out, Mervyn King, Alistair Darling, Terry Wogan, Gordon Brown?

And of course the answer is Terry Wogan, he was the only one of the four with a regonised qualification in banking.

The debt continues to rise because of the huge hole dug by the ineptitude of 13 years of a Labour administration and the world banking collapse which the same Labour Government decided we the taxpayer should pay for.

The rate of rise has fallen every year under George O, be grateful numbnuts.

Sky News poll:

43% leave...31% remain...26% undecided.

Polls these days are so corrupted. Designed to help put pressure on EU leaders to give Cameron tuppence more. Cheers Rupert, business as usual.

The pollsters are not so much corrupted as misled.

More voters than ever enter the polling booth still not convinced who to put their cross against.

What they say and what they do aren't necessarily the same.

There's not that much difference between the two main parties.

Whether they're both to the Left or Right is unimportant.

It's who holds the middle ground that wins.

At least Corbyn will widen the gap which will make the next election polls more accurate.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The debt gets ever bigger because Osborne is a useless economist - a complete disaster. He's missed every target he has set himself and every prediction has been hogwash. It's hard to grasp exactly how poor he has been.

Oh Franny, you are such a one eyed tw@, the Chancellor is a politician, this is not and has never been a requirement to have a knowledge of economics.

Pop quiz, who is the odd man out, Mervyn King, Alistair Darling, Terry Wogan, Gordon Brown?

And of course the answer is Terry Wogan, he was the only one of the four with a regonised qualification in banking.

The debt continues to rise because of the huge hole dug by the ineptitude of 13 years of a Labour administration and the world banking collapse which the same Labour Government decided we the taxpayer should pay for.

The rate of rise has fallen every year under George O, be grateful numbnuts.

the debt continues to rise because borrowing is now so cheap there's sense in adding new debt to service old debt and George Osborne has borrowed more new money than every labour government combined. But in the current drive to slash the state to ensure that the huge corporations control every aspect of our lives, the overriding narrative is that we must pay down our debts.

Unless you are super rich, I don't see how anyone can support this.

Hugh Midde wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

So we should leave the EU because we have a trade deficiit which is now a national embarrassment?

Our exports to the EU were around 45% of total exports, hows that for fundametals? Not hard is it?

You really are a complete Cock, Turds.

Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU in a letter to a friend 30th April 1952).

"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening.

This time I'm for out.

Initially I voted to stay in because at the time, like the majority of people, I thought the 'Common Market' was a chummy club where we sold things to each other at preferential rates. Few had the slightest inkling of the Monnet letter and his plans (still ongoing) for something entirely different. That barista Harold Wilson knew about 'ever closer union' but preferred to keep it from the public domain.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

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^just for info^

Somewhat bemused by the pointless grandstanding going on as Cameron works really hard to get a consensus with the other Euro leaders. It gives him a chance to look really serious in news bulletins and his macho factor is enhanced by the up all night schtick but it is all a sham, isn't it?

Whatever he successfully negotiates it won't be enough for those minded to vote out and he'll trumpet a great victory as everybody else thinks "is that it?" If he doesn't successfully negotiate then he has nowhere to go, does he? He'll have to resign, surely? He probably won't though.

This has been all about trying to placate the mad wing of the Tory party from the outset but they have the scent of blood in their nostrils and the blood lust won't subside until the deed is done and the matter is settled. But whatever the outcome of either this weekend or the referendum it won't be.

Cameron has diced with death all the way through this issue. He's offered no leadership at all as he's squirmed this way and that to save his own skin. He's just plankton on the political sea of life. A truly mediocre politician joined at the hip to an incompetent chancellor leading a party that largely despises them both.

Still whatever is or isn't settled this weekend the fall-out will be fascinating to observe.

Hugh Watt wrote:

the debt continues to rise because borrowing is now so cheap there's sense in adding new debt to service old debt and George Osborne has borrowed more new money than every labour government combined. But in the current drive to slash the state to ensure that the huge corporations control every aspect of our lives, the overriding narrative is that we must pay down our debts.

Unless you are super rich, I don't see how anyone can support this.

Jesus, olympic quality drivel, blaming Ozzy for not being able to stop Labour's runaway tanker in fifty feet is a trait associated with the Jihadi Jez's of this world who would, given the chance, spend us into the black hole of black holes.

Can I recommend Economics for 12 year olds.

Why?

Have you read it? I suspect not. In fact I suspect it doesn't even exist.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

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^just for info^

Interesting, how on earth have they managed to extrapolate a completely unrelated item like the odds from one bookie into a likely result of the referendum.

I watched a 2 horse race from D&E on Sunday while I was trying not to get involved in dissecting the days work over a pint. 2 miles 3 furlongs steeplechase, one horse 5/1, the other 1/8 on. Three guesses which one won?

A year before the General the odds of Cammy getting a madge were huge, everybody was backing a Brain Dead Ed minority with the Sweaties, I would as soon believe the polls as look to a betting exchange for info where political decisions are concerned, Joe Electorate is a funny animal nowadays.

Odds to a percentage is simple arithmetic.

Brexit stay is currently about 2/5. This means the bookies assess 5 chances in 7 (=2+5). 5/7 as a decimal is 0.714 (to 3 sig figs) 0r 71.4%.

Brexit leave is 7/4. This means the bookies assess 4 chances in 11 (=7+4). 4/11 as a decimal is 0.364 (to 3 sig figs) or 36.4%.

Simples.

Obviously the outcomes are mutually exclusive and so should add up to 100% whereas, in fact, they sum to 108%. This is impossible arithmetically - and it is exactly how bookies make their money. If they summed to, say, 92% they lose money. So they don't.

You should try reading numeracy for 12 year olds.

Nice try Dave, however, I feel we've witnessed a sham, not just from our PM but also all the other EU leaders in an attempt to hoodwink the British people into voting remain. Not washing I'm afraid, out.

what actually has been agreed then i havent seen the news today?

Hot air Angry, hot air. A promise from any of those shysters is all but worthless imo. Would you buy a secondhand car off Donald Tusk?

Les Miserable wrote:

Hot air Angry, hot air. A promise from any of those shysters is all but worthless imo. Would you buy a secondhand car off Donald Tusk?

absolutely not.

What do you expect ?
They are all politicians managing peoples thoughts and desires, what doughnuts and newspapers call the REAL world.
Not the best play I've seen. Thought Cameron was wooden, and the plot unbelievable. I had no empathy with any of the characters, and not the slightest interest in the outcome. I exited early through the Akkeron sponsored vomitory, and am still waiting for the new dawn, sponsored by Glaxo SK. Rain and gales again today, I suspect. Odds on.

It's funny that not only did Cameron get a victory but so did the eastern bloc, the French, Germanians ect... Shorely they can't all have won?
The biggest bit of small print that caught my eye was the Belgians (I think) added a clause that this is it, no coming back for more allowances if the referendum doesn't go his way, which personally I think will play a bigger part in all this than anything else, what's the betting that was Cams plan all along.
Another triumphant announcement from Cammy was that we could see more foreign businesses coming to Britain to avoid paying taxes here also, hurrah!
Will the city be appeased with their assurance that they don't have to relocate to Brussles to lend the VWEU money? Doubt it they do what the phuk they like anyway.
The biggest hidden bit of news is what was offered to the poles and Roma to get them to agree to the no handout rule? Protection from Putin foreshore.