Well there is nothing stopping the HHP Development now

Tgwu wrote:

When is the meeting?

Second week of this month was claimed in the AFT section. Must be imminent........ next week !

Cannot put a comment on the Herald web site about this story

Tgwu wrote:

Cannot put a comment on the Herald web site about this story

Those prestitutes are part of the cabal - won't want anything rocking the boat!!  

So when did Argyle/Brent/Akkeron know that there wasn't a chance in hell of getting the school built at Home Park? How long ago did the Board know that there was a multi million pound hole in the budget to build the grandstand?

I wonder at what point they will decide to be open and transparent about this setback and about what will fill the void.

Looks to me like they need a Plan B.

Plan B should be

build a decent grandstand fit for a football club that can be extended if reequired in the future and yes can hold corporate dicks and their functions in too
A decent ice arena fit for purpose

Hell i will even allow a shop/cafe to go there too

any other plan will fail

Cholwell...........  

I think the "What next" question is worth asking at this time. It is certainly more targeted to Argyle debate than, My city is better than yours, however much a distraction it has been:)

It is clear we at no time have received the requisite 70% of confirmations to be able to proceed with re development of Home Park and HHP sites. The news that the school will no longer feature at Home Park only diminishes the chances of hitting targets. The 3 month suspension of migration of ST holders to other parts of the ground only adds fuel to the belief that re development is not imminent.

It is always possible that the Board and their agents have made progress in attempting to lure other occupants/investors that have yet to be made public.

But, however it is panning out I do think we deserve some clarification and some honest talk to be consistent with the ideals promised at the start of the Brent era. Perhaps the plain speaking required will come at the 1st fans forum, but it would be helpful to know when and where that is planned as early as possible.

I think he's been reading my posts because that's pretty much word-for-word what I have been saying for months and months.

We need to start preparing for the post-HHP post-Brent world.

Immediately.

Starting with the balloon payment which I have been worrying about pretty much ever since I became aware of it about 2 years ago.

There's no traction at all in the "No Plan B" argument. It's risible, errant nonsense only a nincompoop would believe and only a charlatan would suggest.

Not having a Plan B would be at least as incompetent or negligent as Stapleton & Co were as the club ran up unsustainable levels of debt.

Here's an open letter to the club:

Quote :

Dear Argyle,

Please, please, please stop treating us like feckin idiots because we won't fall for it and it makes you look real bad.

Yours faithfully,

SFD.

Plan B? Administration to get rid of PAFC but keeping hold of the HHP land to claw his money back one way or the other.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Plan B? Administration to get rid of PAFC but keeping hold of the HHP land to claw his money back one way or the other.

This guy looks to be tied up in problems all over his empire - the scenario our club gets trampled in the stampede would never surprise me!! Might have to change his name to Houdini if he gets out of this lot without a scrape!!

So. HHP - as many of us have known from the start, because it's a terrible plan - is in (hopefully terminal) trouble. That means the ice rink won't happen any time soon. That means the ice rink at the Pavilions can't close any time soon. And that means work on the Pavilions can't start any time soon.

Nine months to go til the local (and general) elections. Time for certain local leaders to give some serious thought as to why they've given so much of OUR money away to somebody with no record whatsoever in this area - and what they're going to do about it. And time for all of us who have a vote in Plymouth to keep ramping up the pressure.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Plan B? Administration to get rid of PAFC but keeping hold of the HHP land to claw his money back one way or the other.

It's funny but I mentioned this on the farm when pointing out Brent's asset stripping, I was told my comments were libellous.
I wonder when I'll get my apology?

There can't be much to claw back. The stadium has already been sold off, the 1.22 acres is yet to be signed over to him so he can't sell that and all Brent has is the parcel of land out the back.

Even his planning permission relies on the owner of Home Park, currently JB himself, of course, agreeing to cooperate by allowing demolition of the grandstand so potentially that's worth diddly too.

Quote :

Starnes went to a fans’ forum held by the North Devon Greens in Bideford last Tuesday.  As has become usual at such events, he was asked for an update on the proposed new grandstand at Home Park.  
However, there are still no timelines for the much-delayed project – which is part of a wider redevelopment plan for Higher Home Park.  Argyle owner and chairman James Brent’s Akkeron Group are behind the proposals.  
Starnes said: “We are continuing to work the issues. I think we are on a pathway now which should bring us to the right result, but I’m not really in a position to elaborate on that at the moment.”  
He added: “The grandstand really straddles the club and Akkeron, as the developer, so I don’t spend so much time on it.  “The issues with the development are largely being carried out by James Brent and his team.  “I get involved where decisions have to be made that directly effect the club.  “Yes, there are meetings, and there is a bit of work that has to be done on a weekly basis but it doesn’t absorb a huge amount of my time because it’s being dealt with by others.”

From today's Herald.

Not getting caught out talking about 70% take up tipping point any more. Far more woolly.

Looks like a good pass of the buck there from our Martyn.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

There can't be much to claw back. The stadium has already been sold off, the 1.22 acres is yet to be signed over to him so he can't sell that and all Brent has is the parcel of land out the back.

Even his planning permission relies on the owner of Home Park, currently JB himself, of course, agreeing to cooperate by allowing demolition of the grandstand so potentially that's worth diddly too.

In October 2011 the independent District Valuer valued the stadium at £2.4m based on professional valuation standards. HHP was valued at £425,000 at the same time and on the same basis. The football club as lessee, not owner, have the right to acquire the freehold of the stadium for 12 times the annual rent paid as at October 2016.

The October 2011 valuation for HHP was based on an the uses approved in the Central Park AAP. HHP now has the benefit of very significant commercial uses and floor space that probably exceeded the aspiration of the AAP.

So what has James Brent done to enhance the value of the club and HHP for his holding company in advance of ballon payment due in October 2016 but known since October 2011. HHP in valuation terms is worth much more with a planning permission establishing a scale of commercial development that the Council would permit. His Ultimate parent company now has 'no material debt' (unlike pre February 2014 when it was £35m plus).

As far as the value of intangibles such as players we now have most of our best players on 2 year contracts. The value of the squad now is significantly enhanced compared to a year ago.

Saltrock is trading significantly better and is increasing profits. The residue of his hotel group are trading well too with no material debt.

So James Brent as owner of our football club is in a much stronger financial position than even seven months ago. For me the only question remains is whether as part of his agreement with the Football League in October 2016 it included a guarantee that he would make full payment of the Football Creditor debt by that date as a balloon payment.

It, would appear now, with HHP or no HHP he is in a stronger position to fulfil that agreement than he has been in the past with the ability now to borrow the amount to settle the balloon payment secured against the assets of his now materially debt free and financially enhanced holding company.

Now for the Abbey Stadium with enhanced confidence

The white Rabbit is closed and moving ready for the bus station £42m redevelopment

Graham Clark wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

There can't be much to claw back. The stadium has already been sold off, the 1.22 acres is yet to be signed over to him so he can't sell that and all Brent has is the parcel of land out the back.

Even his planning permission relies on the owner of Home Park, currently JB himself, of course, agreeing to cooperate by allowing demolition of the grandstand so potentially that's worth diddly too.

In October 2011 the independent District Valuer valued the stadium at £2.4m based on professional valuation standards. HHP was valued at £425,000 at the same time and on the same basis. The football club as lessee, not owner, have the right to acquire the freehold of the stadium for 12 times the annual rent paid as at October 2016.

The October 2011 valuation for HHP was based on an the uses approved in the Central Park AAP. HHP now has the benefit of very significant commercial uses and floor space that probably exceeded the aspiration of the AAP.

So what has James Brent done to enhance the value of the club and HHP for his holding company in advance of ballon payment due in October 2016 but known since October 2011. HHP in valuation terms is worth much more with a planning permission establishing a scale of commercial development that the Council would permit. His Ultimate parent company now has 'no material debt' (unlike pre February 2014 when it was £35m plus).

As far as the value of intangibles such as players we now have most of our best players on 2 year contracts. The value of the squad now is significantly enhanced compared to a year ago.

Saltrock is trading significantly better and is increasing profits. The residue of his hotel group are trading well too with no material debt.

So James Brent as owner of our football club is in a much stronger financial position than even seven months ago. For me the only question remains is whether as part of his agreement with the Football League in October 2016 it included a guarantee that he would make full payment of the Football Creditor debt by that date as a balloon payment.

It, would appear now, with HHP or no HHP he is in a stronger position to fulfil that agreement than he has been in the past with the ability now to borrow the amount to settle the balloon payment secured against the assets of his now materially debt free and financially enhanced holding company.

Now for the Abbey Stadium with enhanced confidence

Thanks Graham,

All well and good.  On paper James Brent looks stronger.  In reality, he seems to be struggling to get the deal done.  And even if it does get done?  It seems it will get 'done' at close to a 70% threshold?  Does that also mean only 70% of expected profit when and if a profit comes?  Because that 70% isn't going to cut the mustard when it comes to blowing off the balloon payment!

My second question...  You mentioned "The football club as lessee, not owner, have the right to acquire the freehold of the stadium for 12 times the annual rent paid.."

Does that mean the stadium cannot be separated from the club? Or can the club (Brent?) immediately sell it to whoever it wants to (himself or someone else)?

And what happens if Brent just can't get anything going?  Can we ever get the Argyle club assets (property) he has appropriated for himself back?

Rickler wrote:

Graham Clark wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

There can't be much to claw back. The stadium has already been sold off, the 1.22 acres is yet to be signed over to him so he can't sell that and all Brent has is the parcel of land out the back.

Even his planning permission relies on the owner of Home Park, currently JB himself, of course, agreeing to cooperate by allowing demolition of the grandstand so potentially that's worth diddly too.

In October 2011 the independent District Valuer valued the stadium at £2.4m based on professional valuation standards. HHP was valued at £425,000 at the same time and on the same basis. The football club as lessee, not owner, have the right to acquire the freehold of the stadium for 12 times the annual rent paid as at October 2016.

The October 2011 valuation for HHP was based on an the uses approved in the Central Park AAP. HHP now has the benefit of very significant commercial uses and floor space that probably exceeded the aspiration of the AAP.

So what has James Brent done to enhance the value of the club and HHP for his holding company in advance of ballon payment due in October 2016 but known since October 2011. HHP in valuation terms is worth much more with a planning permission establishing a scale of commercial development that the Council would permit. His Ultimate parent company now has 'no material debt' (unlike pre February 2014 when it was £35m plus).

As far as the value of intangibles such as players we now have most of our best players on 2 year contracts. The value of the squad now is significantly enhanced compared to a year ago.

Saltrock is trading significantly better and is increasing profits. The residue of his hotel group are trading well too with no material debt.

So James Brent as owner of our football club is in a much stronger financial position than even seven months ago. For me the only question remains is whether as part of his agreement with the Football League in October 2016 it included a guarantee that he would make full payment of the Football Creditor debt by that date as a balloon payment.

It, would appear now, with HHP or no HHP he is in a stronger position to fulfil that agreement than he has been in the past with the ability now to borrow the amount to settle the balloon payment secured against the assets of his now materially debt free and financially enhanced holding company.

Now for the Abbey Stadium with enhanced confidence

Thanks Graham,

All well and good.  On paper James Brent looks stronger.  In reality, he seems to be struggling to get the deal done.  And even if it does get done?  It seems it will get 'done' at close to a 70% threshold?  Does that also mean only 70% of expected profit when and if a profit comes?  Because that 70% isn't going to cut the mustard when it comes to blowing off the balloon payment!

My second question...  You mentioned "The football club as lessee, not owner, have the right to acquire the freehold of the stadium for 12 times the annual rent paid.."

Does that mean the stadium cannot be separated from the club? Or can the club (Brent?) immediately sell it to whoever it wants to (himself or someone else)?

And what happens if Brent just can't get anything going?  Can we ever get the Argyle club assets (property) he has appropriated for himself back?

At this time it is difficult to see how HHP can contribute to any payment of the balloon payment given the timescales.

The funding for the grandstand depends upon the lettings of the 14 food / drink/ retail units contained within the scheme four of which are located in the grandstand. According to the letting agents's website only the cinema is shown as a committed letting.

If the freehold of the stadium is acquired in October 2016 the then owner of the football club is free to sell it to whoever he or she wants. That is why I have raised the issue and the Trust have considered pursuing an Asset of Community Value with PCC.

The moment that James Brent severed HHP from the ownership of the football club in March 2012 with no consultation was the day that the long term future of the football club became more vulnerable. Anyone buying the football club would be severely restricted in anything they wanted to do, including building a grandstand, unless they bought the HHP land too or had agreements in place with the owner of HHP for rights of access or even having to purchase additional land to build a grandstand the scale of the original phase 2.

If HHP is not to go ahead then some serious questions on the future of the football club need to be asked. It is not the present owner and the payment of the balloon payment that is the issue but more what a future owner could do.

Well, well, well.... What a co-incidence...

The balloon payment is due October 2016 as is the option for the then owner of PAFC to also buy the stadium, who then can sell it and the club...

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

Looks like we'em tied up like a friggin kipper - also obvious that none of this was possible without the council knowing, poor show all round me thinks!!  

Rickler wrote:

Well, well, well....   What a co-incidence...

The balloon payment is due October 2016 as is the option for the then owner of PAFC to also buy the stadium, who then can sell it and the club...

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

That, indeed, is factual with potentially sinister implications.

The situation has arisen due to all of the exit admin deals being done, more or less, at once: the agreement with the football creditors was made over a 5 year period and the deal with the council with the 5 year buy-back option being among them.

It's hard to disagree with Graham's analysis above - if HHP goes ahead in some form or another any future owner will find stadium improvements nigh on impossible.
It's all rather like a tourniquet being applied to stop heavy bleeding: the patient might survive because of it but if it remains in place eventually his arm will drop off.

Rickler wrote:

Well, well, well....   What a co-incidence...

The balloon payment is due October 2016 as is the option for the then owner of PAFC to also buy the stadium, who then can sell it and the club...

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

In a potential post HHP world supporters just need to be vigilant. James Brent has been smarter than many would give him credit for, quietly building up the value of the football club. The proven opportunity for a significant scale of commercial development on HHP has also enhanced its potential value.

The combination of both, combined with the opportunity to buy the stadium freehold for less than £2m does make the opportunity at Home Park a more attractive one if there is an investor looking at securing such an opportunity.

Rickler wrote:

Well, well, well....   What a co-incidence...

The balloon payment is due October 2016 as is the option for the then owner of PAFC to also buy the stadium, who then can sell it and the club...

The mind boggles with the possibilities...

In a potential post HHP world supporters just need to be vigilant. James Brent has been smarter than many would give him credit for, quietly building up the value of the football club. The proven opportunity for a significant scale of commercial development on HHP has also enhanced its potential value.

The combination of both, combined with the opportunity to buy the stadium freehold for less than £2m does make the opportunity at Home Park a more attractive one if there is an investor looking at securing such an opportunity.

Fingers crossed then, just two more years of under funded football to endure, is it the end in sight, I do hope so, although I will be surprised if we don't get sold to another shark.