What aspects of the proposed development do you object to?

On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the thing you find most important, what parts of the development plans do you feel most strongly about?

For me as a non-resident I would find it difficult to argue against it on environmental issues as it hardly affects me, so my main worries are the proposed capacity which I rate as a 9.

I also find it hard to believe that the capacity will be easily expanded in future, and even Chris Webb, Ian Newell and the Akkeron team don't seem to have a answer when pressed as to how the capacity will be extended in years to come so this is also a 9 for me.

I'm also confused about the retail units included in the plans and how they are going to bring any income to the club, and I am very sceptical about the figures James Brent is plucking out of the air with regards to extra income this should generate for the club, so the future sustainability of the club gets an 8 from me.

The access road is another issue where there is some confusion. People with far more knowledge of this kind of thing than me have flagged up concerns about where it is going etc. and then we have Chris Webb plucking out of thin air the fact that the road can be moved in future so that the capacity can be extended. This again has been really vague and because the Akkeron team don't all seem to be telling the same story I have to conclude that they are currently hiding something about the access road which won't be universally popular when announced. So I give this an 8 because I have a horrible feeling that the plans as they stand would mean a logicistical nightmare on match days.

Other than these points I suppose I'm not ecstatic about the stand being dwarfed by other elements, but if some of the other concerns I have were dealt with/answered by Akkeron then I wouldn't be too hung up on this. I also feel as though there has been deliberate misinformation about other elements contained in the plans, such as the school and the dentists, but again these aren't the biggest things to have to put up with if my other concerns were dealt with.

I can't be a hypocrite and say that I love the park, don't want any trees uprooted etc. etc. because I do think there has to be some disruption to the existing parkland in order for us to get the grandstand. That might not be a popular view but it's me being honest.

What are everyone else's main concerns? And what are you prepared to put up with in order to get what you want? I'm curious to know whether everyone is completely anti the whole development, as certain people seem to be suggesting, or if the plans wouldn't need to be tweaked that much in order to keep people happy.

No cinema - that is leisure not sport
No dentist or school - it's a park
No easy ability to expand the capacity (or none that I've seen)
The development is too hemmed in
Too much traffic

Dont agree with the cinema and shopping mall, prepared to put up with a hotel,  ice rink is part of the sporting complex.  Like the zoo before them will probally all fall into disuse,

Dont need another cinema
Dont need another hotel
Dont need another dentist
Dont need another school

Brent says all of the above will create jobs,Certainly construction wise in the short term, that might well be true but it sure as hell will kill the other like-minded trades/organisations in the City in the long term,in that respect how the bloody hell can it be good for Plymouth???!!!
The Vue, ABC etc all battling for punters, when they are on the bones of their arse as it is, and i havnt even started with the hotels, yet alone a 7 ..YES SEVEN storey hotel dwarfing HP.
Wake me up when this nightmare is over

A lot of people on here and elsewhere are making a big thing about the access to the proposed car park,which is rather pie in the sky.The proposed car park will obviously be pay and display,so what Janner is going to pay to park there when there is a perfectly good car park in the life centre which is free,and another perfectly good car park that is the park and ride car park, which again is absolutely free.Plus there are numerous side streets dotted around HP which are again perfectly free and have been used since time and memorial by Argyle fans.Some people are just clutching at straws in their attempts to disrail the proposed development.Too much traffic.Haha.

My main gripe is the whole design has not taken into account the people who will actually use  it...

The 'channel' as it is aptly described in the plans - the alley - as some of us have taken to calling it, is a disaster in the making.

The bottleneck at the shop/ticket/turnstile area will block the movement of (away?) fans down its route and curtail anyone wanting to use the retail area.  No doubt it will have to be marshaled constantly by police and stewards etc.

The area should have been a piazza/village square for people to relax in.  If you have to move the Ice skating rink, then do so - better out of HHP completely, but if not...  Cottage field is brown mud patch of cancer within the Green Lung that could do with operating on.  A piazza with trees and shrubbery will produce far more oxygen than a mud patch and get used far more too.

I doubt that if you stand in the rememberance garden you will even be able to see Home Park.  Quite a large difference to actually having been buried there. It does make a nice garden outside Brents hotel though.

The road design...  Say no more...

The whole plan of curtailing movement at certain times....

The stand and its amenities are biased toward Brent and not the club... 

...and no light house?

greensleeves wrote:

A lot of people on here and elsewhere are making a big thing about the access to the proposed car park,which is rather pie in the sky.The proposed car park will obviously be pay and display,so what Janner is going to pay to park there when there is a perfectly good car park in the life centre which is free,and another perfectly good car park that is the park and ride car park, which again is absolutely free.Plus there are numerous side streets dotted around HP which are again perfectly free and have been used since time and memorial by Argyle fans.Some people are just clutching at straws in their attempts to disrail the proposed development.Too much traffic.Haha.

Jest bleddy get it built  

Cottage field is to have its pitches upgraded as part of the park overhaul. Whether this is a Brent sweetener or funded elsewhere I don't know but it's on the plans.

greensleeves wrote:

A lot of people on here and elsewhere are making a big thing about the access to the proposed car park,which is rather pie in the sky.The proposed car park will obviously be pay and display,so what Janner is going to pay to park there when there is a perfectly good car park in the life centre which is free,and another perfectly good car park that is the park and ride car park, which again is absolutely free.Plus there are numerous side streets dotted around HP which are again perfectly free and have been used since time and memorial by Argyle fans.Some people are just clutching at straws in their attempts to disrail the proposed development.Too much traffic.Haha.

But surely there are going to be thousands of extra visitors now to the area as well as the thousands of supporters?

There are only so many side streets these extra visitors can use, and the life-centre car park will be filled up by the early birds.

I've seen lots of comments about Outland Rd already being extremely busy so with the world class sporting centre facilities on offer as well I think you're dismissing a valid concern that many people have. And I'm not looking to de-rail anything. I want the grandstand to be the focus of the whole development and not just something squeezed in wherever it will fit.

Greensleeves clearly doesn't live in Peverell.   As a resident of one of the so-called side streets, parking is already a mare.  The housing is mostly terraced, and at least half of residents seem to have 2 cars, not to mention camper vans and trailers which are parked for days on end.    Many users of the Life Centre come from outside the city and the car park is rarely less than three quarters full.  And what happens when cinema goers, people with toothache, shoppers and skaters fill up the park and ride car park?  So discussing parking issues is hardly clutching at straws - and no I don't want the whole development derailed.

I agree with Rickler about the potential security issues on matchdays - Home Park is fairly simple to police compared to other inner city stadiums - the changes will affect that dramatically.

Secondly for me, it's the bizarre mix of retail/cinema/food outlets in what is and should be, a sporting 'campus'. It is neither fitting of the area or the theme that exists - a 'World Class' sporting area.

Thirdly, it's the added traffic to a relatively confined road network.

Fourthly, I do not feel that it will provide a legacy for the football club.

As a former resident of Ponsonby Road,Milehouse, I know that there is plenty of off street parking all around HP,a fact which is well known to most Argyle fans.Plus the park and ride offers a massive FREE car park which I have never seen so close to a football ground in all my travels around the country supporting Argyle.It will be more than able to cope with the additional parking facilities that the new development will require.Although designated a park and ride car park its rarely more than half full with park and riders.A scheme that is not really a success as with Coypool which is again barely used.But I digress.The cinema down Coxside way has a small car park but that manages,as does the current ice rink at the pavillions which hasn't a car park at all.So why all of a sudden parking and access will suddenly become a problem I dont know.Just as a PS... if the residents put up with hell when Argyle barely get 6000,then they must have been at their wits end when Argyle were averaging 16000 in the CCC.As I say some people are looking for excuses.

greensleeves wrote:

As a former resident of Ponsonby Road,Milehouse, I know that there is plenty of off street parking all around HP,a fact which is well known to most Argyle fans.Plus the park and ride offers a massive FREE car park which I have never seen so close to a football ground in all my travels around the country supporting Argyle.It will be more than able to cope with the additional parking facilities that the new development will require.Although designated a park and ride car park its rarely more than half full with park and riders.A scheme that is not really a success as with Coypool which is again barely used.But I digress.The cinema down Coxside way has a small car park but that manages,as does the current ice rink at the pavillions which hasn't a car park at all.So why all of a sudden parking and access will suddenly become a problem I dont know.Just as a PS... if the residents put up with hell when Argyle barely get 6000,then they must have been at their wits end when Argyle were averaging 16000 in the CCC.As I say some people are looking for excuses.

So you're saying that Mr Brent's forecast of footfall is a load of old bollocks? Because he is banging the drum for this world class sporting area which will have people flocking to HHP. If this isn't the case then surely there would be alternative sites for the rest of the development and just concentrate on making the grandstand grand.

I'm not particularly against any single aspect in particular over one another. I don't think we should build too much in a park - if I had to settle on one gripe. I just think the weighting of profit: local community & football club is completely out of sync with anything which could be described as 'moral'. I appreciate the need for profit, honestly I do...but at the expense of a football club's dreams, at the expense of parkland, at the expense of the taxpayer, at the expense of free leisure facilities, at the expense of the already neglected West End of town...it just seems a WAY too big a price to pay. 

I actually want the current grandstand gone, desperately; as soon as the terracing was removed it became a symbol of desolation and degradation which still hangs over the club. I'd bloody love it to be done 'right', though.

I quote from the reply I received from PCC:

"I understand that the intention is to segregate the apron around the north and east of the football Stadium into a vehicle access road and a pedestrian area serving the stands. It is not intended that this access road will be used during match days: on those occasions, the vehicular access to the commercial development will be stewarded and routed between the Stadium and the Life Centre, with a left-turn around the south of HHP and then back up into the car park entrance on the east side of the Stadium. These proposals are being considered by the Safety at Grounds Group comprising the Council, Police and other services." I wonder who will pay for those "stewards"?

"The policing of the commercial development during match days will be an issue for the developer and/or private landowner of the HHP site."  I wonder who will pay for this 'policing'?

The traffic issue - particularly at the Segrave Road junction - will certainly be an important issue I have been told both by PCC & one of the local councillors. Whenever I come into Plymouth I either use the George or the Central Park park & ride. In my experience both are very well used. They and the Life Centre car-park are CURRENTLY free. If the development takes off as Mr Brent has predicted the parking and access issues will become much more problematic.

I am less bothered about the capacity issue than the ability to straightforwardly expand when needed in future.

I am bothered about the apparent loss of income from the retail units. I was told by the PCC that there were ongoing negotiations over the money due to the council from this use of its land. They were quite reasonably  unable to comment about any arrangement with the club to receive any income.

I am bothered about a dentist, a school, a large number of restaurants and a cinema in a park!!!!!

The thought occurred to me the other day (someone has already posted it on here) that if, as people have said, we will need to relocate due to burgeoning success at some stage in the future there will be Home Park to dispose of. With a precedent established for developing such facilities in HHP, that leaves it wide open to further development to the further detriment of the park.

Im not against the devlopment on the carpark just the size of the stand and certainly against the roads. but here you go, my rankings

cinema 4/10
ice rink 8/10 
hotel  5/10
school 6/10
retail crap 0/10 makes the whole place look tacky and ruins the whole point of central park being a home for sport and healthy living
the new stand 0/10 unless i see proof it can be extended/expanded in the future i'm not happy with it being built small and kept small no matter how nice it may look.
the new roads 0/10 dangerous, stupid and cutting through greenland it needs changing

greensleeves wrote:

As a former resident of Ponsonby Road,Milehouse, I know that there is plenty of off street parking all around HP,a fact which is well known to most Argyle fans.Plus the park and ride offers a massive FREE car park which I have never seen so close to a football ground in all my travels around the country supporting Argyle.It will be more than able to cope with the additional parking facilities that the new development will require.Although designated a park and ride car park its rarely more than half full with park and riders.A scheme that is not really a success as with Coypool which is again barely used.But I digress.The cinema down Coxside way has a small car park but that manages,as does the current ice rink at the pavillions which hasn't a car park at all.So why all of a sudden parking and access will suddenly become a problem I dont know.Just as a PS... if the residents put up with hell when Argyle barely get 6000,then they must have been at their wits end when Argyle were averaging 16000 in the CCC.As I say some people are looking for excuses.

Oh dear. Trying to defend the indefensible

Are PCC Highway's department not playing ball?

If the FREE park & ride will cope, why have JB's professionals persuaded him to include a £10M Pay & Display car park?
Maybe his confidant Tudor will be introducing pay & display to the park & ride and Life Centre car parks

BTW The Vue complex has parking on site for over 600 hundred cars and the Pavillions is directly linked to the Western  Approach car park with 2000 spaces.

There are those parts which I find distasteful - the cinema, the retail, the dentist - but which I would accept as a necessary evil if the plans otherwise benefit the football club in the right way.

I can live with a short-term capacity of under 20k - I don't think we need more until we're ready to be back in the Championship.

The key issue has always been - and remains - the ability to easily expand, thereby ensuring a future prospect of supporting a top flight football club in Central Park.

Knecht has hit on a key issue around this in his post above. By botching this development now and crippling Home Park as a bigger ground now or in the future, there is a danger that a successful future Argyle (something everyone wants, right?) will have to relocate. A logical ramification of this is Home Park being bulldozed or converted into yet more retail or residential space. How would that fit with your manifesto pledges, Tudor?

No to the hotel.
No to the cinema
No to a school
No to a dentists

Yes to an ice rink but much bigger
Yes to a grandstand but much bigger.

I love banging this big old drum of mine! At the risk of sounding like Tring I have been saying ever since Brent rocked up at HP that he is a developer, I warned people that he would asset strip the club and said he was not to be trusted. I feel vindicated. Since the plans have been talked about I have also been warning that something doesn't sit right with me about this whole development. The expansion issues are key, I have experience of the building industry, not on this scale but experience non the less, and I don't believe Brent has any intention of expanding the club now or in the future. I also think that any other owner would struggle as well. I must have mentioned a couple of months ago that IMO the only way to expand in the future would be to move up the a38. Some fans have no problem with this, I do. I used to as kid catch the bus in to watch matches, when I lived in Stoke, Peverell and Mutley Plain we would all walk to the ground stopping and having a few beers on the way, this match day experience would change out of all recognition if we moved, it's not Green it's not good. Once this happened then as other posters have said, what will happen to HP? I dread to think what Brent would think up for it then, it would probably stay shut for five years then have houses put on it.
As for Greensleeves, you say that you live on Ponsonby road and are extolling the parking opportunities presented by that and other roads in the area. Seriously? Have you ever tried to park outside your house on a match day? Peverell barn park end has people parking on yellow lines and across the entrance to the park up to an hour before the game starts. When I lived in Peverlell you couldnt go out on a match day or return until an hour after the match had finished or you wouldn't be able to park again. As for the park and ride car park the capacity has been halved in the last couple of years by having huge spaces between rows of cars. Added to this the extra two million people a day that will be using the world class facilities at HHP where the fook are they all going to park or are you going to shuffle your cars around on your drive to make some more room? I am trying very hard to take you seriously but I find it hard to believe anything that you say now. I don't believe that you live in Milehouse if you believe parking is not an issue.
As for safety, how many accidents have you seen around Seagrave road on a matchday? I have seen several from  there up to the old Farleys building and even on the slip road to Manadon Roundabout, with all these extra millions of visitors I imagine it will be akin to Bangkok in the future.
Also as a supporter with some mobility issues the clubs disability policy has always been to tell everybody how great they are but when I asked to have a separate parking area on match days for disabled supporters I was told to turn up earlier. This is fine if you arent  working or if the weather isn't bad. I have had to turn round and go home before because I havent been able to park close enough to the ground, great way to treat a season ticket holder.
Anyway I digress,
School and dentists,
IMAX cinema,
Hotel.
In that order, none of these should be in the park, and I am surprised the fans are meekly accepting of a school and dentists I the corner of the ground where we could situate another 800 seats quite cheaply, man the feck up asre lickers and think club not rich owner, I really do despair.

You lot getting a free ground, a free pitch and a free ride from your creditors.

Your pub team should be playing in a pub league on a park pitch.

Some of you whingers don't know you are born.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

You lot getting a free ground, a free pitch and a free ride from your creditors.

Your pub team should be playing in a pub league on a park pitch.

Some of you whingers don't know you are born.