The Grandstand to be open for the start of the season?

"The wonderful new Grandstand"

I think the Trust is only ever going to grow in size unless they start pressurising the club on the bigger issues like the scale and future implications of the new mini-stand.
If the mimi-stand development is as dead in the water as what most of us seem to think it is,then the trust should be putting more direct pressure to get some answers.
Most of us couldn't give a damn about niff naff and trivia or 'charidee' events.
The lack of transparency is getting worse with every passing day.

There is one big question that needs to be asked - There never was a Plan B. Following the Council report on 17th June there is now clearly no Plan A. With his Pension Pot boosted by £1.3 million since his arrival in Plymouth, will the Chairman commit to paying the balance of the Football Creditor Debt in October 2016 and keep the football club alive past that date?

I am not sure who that question should be aimed at Brent or Tudor Evans, or both!

GOB wrote:

I am not sure who that question should be aimed at Brent or Tudor Evans, or both!

GOB - Not even I would dare suggest that Tudor's pension pot has increased since JB has been in town!

The thought never crossed my mind Damon, we will have to put it down to a misunderstanding.

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zyph wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Tring...I'm perfectly willing to listen to constructive arguments and pointers about alternative courses of action. In fact I'm not only willing to listen, I actually welcome it. The idea that we're somehow jostling for position or have an end goal of a few freebies and photoshoots however, is just so far from the mark. It's not that we never get it wrong, but if we are not being as loudly critical as you perhaps would like it certainly is not in the hope of gaining kudos from the club ownership.

Greensam..........Just keep doing your best in the time you can give to it.......You all have to earn a living in the meanwhile......don't let the critics grind you down .

AFT member No202.

  Well put, could not have expressed it any better. Keep up the good work Sam some of us appreciate it.

GreenSam wrote:

I've just been updated this evening that there has in fact been a new date arranged for the latest meeting with Tudor Evans. Let's hope this one all goes as planned.

When is that, Please?  ..and if it doesn't happen, what is your plan then?

And please don't say to re-arrange it?

Fcol. The wet fart that was the PASB has only just moved out of the AFT's way. I'm not sure what you're after so soon Tring? Or Rickler also for that matter. The AFT need to be careful that the club doesn't complete disengage with them, it will serve no purpose. They're walking a tightrope as far as I can see. On one hand there's guy like you arguing that they need to be more aggressive and radical. Then there's others who are criticising the AFT as seemingly too aggressive and against the club   

spowell92 wrote:

Fcol. The wet fart that was the PASB has only just moved out of the AFT's way. I'm not sure what you're after so soon Tring? Or Rickler also for that matter. The AFT need to be careful that the club doesn't complete disengage with them, it will serve no purpose. They're walking a tightrope as far as I can see. On one hand there's guy like you arguing that they need to be more aggressive and radical. Then there's others who are criticising the AFT as seemingly too aggressive and against the club   

If they ask the questions and get fobbed off, what is their purpose ?

The club and the council will only fully engage with them if they pose a threat. The only way they will pose a threat is if they spell out their concerns and unanswered questions to the wider fanbase and get more people shouting, joining, protesting.

The Trust has already been sent to the naughty step once by Brent, so it either behaves or is sent there again. Is that what you're saying ?

I tell you what I am after...

An answer to what the AFT are going to do when Tudor fobs them off - either by cancelling the meeting yet again or not giving them satisfactory answers.

Is that too much to ask of the AFT leaders?

So if the AFT is fobbed off what do you think the next step should be?

I expect the media could be involved, but if you read the local press you will know that bad publicity doesn't seem to bother this council very much?

A leaflet drop and "rounding up of the troops" that would probably attract half a dozen spotty 12 years olds to a demo in the car park?

Apart from that I'm out of ideas so it's over to you Rickler and Tring, what would you do, hold a webcam debate and tell the world how right you have been and that Andy wants a comfy seat and and name all the ones that you don't like and 'have a thing about' as wanting to feather their own beds?

GOB wrote:

So if the AFT is fobbed off what do you think the next step should be?

I expect the media could be involved, but if you read the local press you will know that bad publicity doesn't seem to bother this council very much?

A leaflet drop and "rounding up of the troops" that would probably attract half a dozen spotty 12 years olds to a demo in the car park?

Apart from that I'm out of ideas so it's over to you Rickler and Tring, what would you do, hold a webcam debate and tell the world how right you have been and that Andy wants a comfy seat and and name all the ones that you don't like and 'have a thing about'  as wanting to feather their own beds?

As a starting point, use the fanzine and any other media channels to clearly point out the grave concerns and lack of transparency on all the major issues that could blight the club's present and future . Once the club then banishes the Trust, up the ante and set up outside the ground/ away matches with the latest headlines and developments ['We like your money but not your questions' They will not silence the fans !' 'Answers Please !' Whose club is it anyway ?' What about the land ?' Why box us in ?' etc etc]  ....... a weekly or fortnightly 'mini fanzine' on a single sheet. If the wider fanbase are not alarmed/ roused and do not buy in, at least the Trust will have tried and can return to the buckets........... if that's their thing.
And we can all give up completely and find better things to be concerned about.The Aviva faithful will have the club they deserve. Geddon.

That is in effect what you said last week, GOB.

The club and the council have got the AFT eating out of their palms.
PCC/Evans are postponing meeting after meeting because he/they are playing a delaying game.
Even if the HHP plans are floundering at the moment they know that the longer they can keep the Trust at arms length increases the chance of the Mini-stand becoming a reality,and if that happens it is good night Vienna.
The Trust should be fighting this with every last breath in its body.
Do or die time.

Tringreen wrote:

GOB wrote:

So if the AFT is fobbed off what do you think the next step should be?

I expect the media could be involved, but if you read the local press you will know that bad publicity doesn't seem to bother this council very much?

A leaflet drop and "rounding up of the troops" that would probably attract half a dozen spotty 12 years olds to a demo in the car park?

Apart from that I'm out of ideas so it's over to you Rickler and Tring, what would you do, hold a webcam debate and tell the world how right you have been and that Andy wants a comfy seat and and name all the ones that you don't like and 'have a thing about'  as wanting to feather their own beds?

As a starting point, use the fanzine and any other media channels to clearly point out the grave concerns and lack of transparency on all the major issues that could blight the club's present and future . Once the club then banishes the Trust, up the ante and set up outside the ground/ away matches with the latest headlines and developments ['We like your money but not your questions' They will not silence the fans !' 'Answers Please !' Whose club is it anyway ?' What about the land ?' Why box us in ?' etc etc]  ....... a weekly or fortnightly 'mini fanzine' on a single sheet. If the wider fanbase are not alarmed/ roused and do not buy in, at least the Trust will have tried and can return to the buckets........... if that's their thing.
And we can all give up completely and find better things to be concerned about.The Aviva faithful will have the club they deserve. Geddon.

That is in effect what you said last week, GOB.

So then, why are you so critical of something that hasn't even evolved yet, how do you know the AFT are not planning exactly that?

Instead of undermining them daily and if you encouraged them rather then constantly criticizing them day in and day out with literally every single comment and, you dropped the so obvious personal issues that you have, you maybe taken seriously!

As a member I am 100% behind the leadership of the AFT and about 95% happy with the progress made. I would prefer a slightly more veracious approach but that's my way of doing things and I recognize that 'my way' of doing things may not always be the right way or, that others do things their way, it doesn't make them or me wrong, it just mean that they prefer to do things their way and not mine!

Punchdrunk wrote:

The club and the council have got the AFT eating out of their palms.
PCC/Evans are postponing meeting after meeting because he/they are playing a delaying game.
Even if the HHP plans are floundering at the moment they know that the longer they can keep the Trust at arms length increases the chance of the Mini-stand becoming a reality,and if that happens it is good night Vienna.
The Trust should be fighting this with every last breath in its body.
Do or die time.

I'll ask the same question of you Punch. How would you like the AFT to progress this issue?

Punchdrunk wrote:

The club and the council have got the AFT eating out of their palms.
PCC/Evans are postponing meeting after meeting because he/they are playing a delaying game.
Even if the HHP plans are floundering at the moment they know that the longer they can keep the Trust at arms length increases the chance of the Mini-stand becoming a reality,and if that happens it is good night Vienna.
The Trust should be fighting this with every last breath in its body.
Do or die time.

The Stand is not happening.

Like GOB my way would be more vociferous but I know my way is not always the right way and I support Andy and the Board 100% in their efforts.

I would like the agenda to switch - the question is now bigger than the failed mini-stand - Will Brent pay the football creditors debt in October 2016 if the Club doesn't have the cash to do so?

As I've been saying for a couple of days the middle way would be the best option, however that needs to be balanced with the fact that the trust/pasb in fact any questions of note by fans have been fobbed off by Brent for three years now. When does the fact that you aren't getting answers become enough to kick up about?
Sadly I think the soon the trust is on the naughty step the better, being under Brent's wing is more than a little stifling and what's more Brent must love it, hate to say it but he is playing you for fools.

Damon how can you be so sure the mini-stand won't happen?

They're just waiting for the occupancy levels to increase right? and once they reach the target, the diggers will roll in.

Pafcintheplace wrote:

Damon how can you be so sure the mini-stand won't happen?

They're just waiting for the occupancy levels to increase right? and once they reach the target, the diggers will roll in.

You've just answered your own question.

The occupancy level seems to have been stalled at 70% for quite some time now. In fact it's possible that the occupancy level has dropped since that figure was first postulated given that the underground car park can't attract a client and the Imax cinema at HHP seems to have been gazumped by the Bretonside one.

Bit by bit the plan has collapsed under the weight of its own inherent crapness not because I, or any other messageboard poster, doesn't like it but because from the very outset the plan has been so crap that it couldn't even fit into the footprint available for it.

HHP is over. Dead in the water and has been for ages.

And so too is the plan to replace the grandstand as a result.

What we are currently in the midst of is either stubborn, pig-headed, head in the sand (can a pig put its head into the sand?) incompetence (which doesn't strike me as altogether impossible) or a carefully managed exit strategy, if they have figured one out yet, that will allow the prime movers (i.e. Mr & Mrs Brent) to escape with the mininum of egg of their faces whilst everybody else is hung out to dry and made to look really silly (Hi, Ian!) in the process.

How can HHP be over or dead in the water, when all it takes for the occupancy levels to meet the required target?
And when it does, it's back on, except we get a value engineered ministand most likely.

Sorry to be the pessimist but I do worry that there's a very real possibility this boxed cluster**** could still go ahead!

Pafcintheplace wrote:

How can HHP be over or dead in the water, when all it takes for the occupancy levels to meet the required target?
And when it does, it's back on, except we get a value engineered ministand most likely.

Sorry to be the pessimist but I do worry that there's a very real possibility this boxed cluster**** could still go ahead!

Exactly until it is OFFICIALY dead in the water the Trust should be wreaking all out war.

I've decided that the Trust and my good self have one thing in common, apparently.

Nobody takes either of us seriously !   

The politics of Britain is adversarial, so should the Trust/board relationship be. It doesn't mean that you can't communicate, being fobbed off does though.