The Grandstand to be open for the start of the season?

The BL deal is a no brainer - Brent Towers inc is a dogs dinner, no friggin contest!!

Tgwu wrote:

British Land plans £42m Plymouth leisure complex

Bring it on

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That's pretty impressive!

Tgwu wrote:

British Land plans £42m Plymouth leisure complex

Bring it on

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It looks like a great project that will really benefit plymouth. The hhp plans, truly are third rate in comparison.

Has Brent to pay the 106 money up front or is paid after the development is finished? Over to you Graham


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I really cannot see a future where two of these types of developments will take place in Plymouth

Evans, who is supposedly an aligned with Brent is giving this project the green light in the knowledge that it will probably kick Brent's plans up the creek and with it possibly the future of PAFC. Then the Civic Centre which has less chance of being a hotel than I have of becoming the owner of pasoti and a Millbay project that has had less work carried out than the re-floating of the Titanic. WTF?

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

With our record of missed opportunities and no top flight history, the public will not naturally 'buy in' and stay in for Championship football alone. As has been pointed out with facts and figures on many occasions, our potential and historical fanbase mirrors that of clubs like Swansea and Hull. The difference is that they went for it with smart new stadia. We don't need to move from one of the best appointed grounds in the land but when ready and with the right leadership, we need to be able to develop it with the necessary 'wow factor', not build it small and box it in for generations.
That really would be the end.

ps GOB said,' I'm afraid there's been far to many opportunities missed by the AFT to get the public on its side and to tell the stinking story and so much more could have been done.   

Made your mind up yet GOB . Get the public onside. Tell the stinking story. Or what ?

Tgwu wrote:

Has Brent to pay the 106 money up front or is paid after the development is finished?  Over to you Graham


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Attached is the s106 for HHP. All the obligations and timescales are set out from page 11 onwards. Some obligations have to be met before the commencement of the development. Others relate to completion prior to occupation. The document also contains the planning conditions which have to be discharged before the development can commence.

All these costs are relative small beer to signing a contract or contracts that commit to spending £57m or thereabouts.

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spowell92 wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

It's refreshing that someone like Spowelly can see the bigger picture and realise what an unmitigated disaster these plans would be for the aspirations of Argyle fans of his generation.

As for xisles assertion that the grandstand plans are proportionate - well that is a proper LAUGH OUT LOUD statement. Proportionate to what? The Horseshoe opposite?  Really?

If you take the available space on the current south stand side including of course the corner areas, then the exact area opposite in the horseshoe would encompass all of the Lyndhurst plus the Spion Kop and Zoo Corner - an area currently housing 7,600 seats. X'ys hero JB proposes putting just 4,800 seats in a fecking so-called GRANDSTAND opposite!

I'm sorry, but for me ( and most other rational thinking folk) a proportionate Grandstand to an area opposite housing 7600 seats ISN'T a feckin joke of a Grandstand housing 4800 seats!

Proportionate my feckin arse.

And on the flip side, if the insinuation is that the stand is proportionate to what we can afford, then the points I raised previously are an even bigger pointer as to why we'd be killing our future hopes and dreams by even thinking of doing it in the first place.

Apologies from going off topic from the AFT bitch Fest that this thread seems to have turned to.

I stumbled across this video from Man City's YouTube page revealing their plans for an extension their stadium:


I know they're multi-billionaire funded, but I did find the difference between that and what we we presented quite funny.
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We're a doodle on a dirty napkin compared to them and the Premier League these days *sigh

Graham Clark wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

Has Brent to pay the 106 money up front or is paid after the development is finished?  Over to you Graham


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Attached is the s106 for HHP. All the obligations and timescales are set out from page 11 onwards. Some obligations have to be met before the commencement of the development. Others relate to completion prior to occupation. The document also contains the planning conditions which have to be discharged before the development can commence.

All these costs are relative small beer to signing a contract or contracts that commit to spending £57m or thereabouts.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There are some contentious issues in the Planning Obligations including Seagrave Road junction and loss of trees.
Do these have to go through any sort of public consultation before being signed off?

spowell92 wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

Blimey well said.


Brent out !

Tringreen wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

With our record of missed opportunities and no top flight history, the public will not naturally 'buy in' and stay in for Championship football alone. As has been pointed out with facts and figures on many occasions, our potential and historical fanbase mirrors that of clubs like Swansea and Hull. The difference is that they went for it with smart new stadia. We don't need to move from one of the best appointed grounds in the land but when ready and with the right leadership, we need to be able to develop it with the necessary 'wow factor', not build it small and box it in for generations.
That really would be the end.

ps GOB said,' I'm afraid there's been far to many opportunities missed by the AFT to get the public on its side and to tell the stinking story and so much more could have been done.   

Made your mind up yet GOB . Get the public onside. Tell the stinking story. Or what ?

Oh I completely stand by that comment Tring but that comment didn't relate to this thread or the grandstand of which I am happy with the way the AFT has conducted itself. However, as for my comment that you have quoted, it could well be that the AFT will indeed tell the stinking story and that it is merely choosing its own time and place, who knows. But this isn't the thread for discussing that so I am not sure why you have a desire to mention it on here other than to distort the context and we both know the users of ATD have more than enough grey matter to see straight through that and that's a pity because it's a topic the needs to be discussed and a topic that I am far from happy about.

Elias wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

Blimey well said.


Brent out !

Seconded. If we can't build a decent stand then let's not bother. If you painted it up a bit and filled it with fans all cheering on a promotion chasing side it will still be awesome. Half fill it with a load of old codgers wondering when if ever Blizzard is going to actually connect to an Argyle player with one of his passes and you start noticing that it hasn't been painted for ten years. The last time I sat there last year I counted four dead pigeons under the seats near us, not only has it not been looked after its not even properly clean! Is Brent going to do "an Oldway on it" and let it rot so something must be done?

Rickler wrote:

GOB wrote:

So if the AFT is fobbed off what do you think the next step should be?

Apart from that I'm out of ideas so it's over to you Rickler and Tring, what would you do, hold a webcam debate and tell the world how right you have been and that Andy wants a comfy seat and and name all the ones that you don't like and 'have a thing about'  as wanting to feather their own beds?

Don't get hysterical Gob...

If you care to look, I have given some views on how to proceed.

What you don't seem to get is...  I don't need to come up with a plan for the AFT.  I am not on the board.  However...  Andy Symons is and does, he put himself forward as leader.  He needs to lead.  

The writing for PAFC is on the wall and the AFT are doing almost nothing to raise the issue.


..and 'having a thing about'?  Have a word with yourself about Tringy.  Your bias defines the word 'personal'.

Only you could define asking the AFT what their plan for rejection is, as 'criticism'.

That's fair enough Rickler. I was simply providing you an opportunity to validate your comments so that they would have been taken more seriously and that you didn't appear as just someone with a nutty personal vendetta that was using the AFT as a tool to settle that personal vendetta. I am sure that everyone will reach their own conclusions though.


Mods, feel free to split my AFT comments from this thread, it's to important a topic to be allowed to be twisted from its context.

Iggy wrote:

Elias wrote:

spowell92 wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

Blimey well said.


Brent out !

Seconded. If we can't build a decent stand then let's not bother. If you painted it up a bit and filled it with fans all cheering on a promotion chasing side it will still be awesome. Half fill it with a load of old codgers wondering when if ever Blizzard is going to actually connect to an Argyle player with one of his passes and you start noticing that it hasn't been painted for ten years. The last time I sat there last year I counted four dead pigeons under the seats near us, not only has it not been looked after its not even properly clean! Is Brent going to do "an Oldway on it" and let it rot so something must be done?

Thirded!

Maybe Brent is doing an 'Oldway' with the Grandstand?

GOB wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

British Land plans £42m Plymouth leisure complex

Bring it on

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's pretty impressive!

Oh, I dunno. Where's the narrow alleyways between buildings, and there must be room to shoe a dentist surgery somewhere. It's not been thought through.

spowell92 wrote:

Apologies from going off topic from the AFT bitch Fest that this thread seems to have turned to.

I stumbled across this video from Man City's YouTube page revealing their plans for an extension their stadium:


I know they're multi-billionaire funded, but I did find the difference between that and what we we presented quite funny.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

We're a doodle on a dirty napkin compared to them and the Premier League these days *sigh

I didn't spot many differences in the two plans!!  

Punchdrunk wrote:

Can anyone dig out that photo that the Herald published the day after the Council decision ? The one with about 15 or so "supporters" stood either side of Brent punching the air in delight !

We need a lolocopter gif !

Now where is Hairy when you need him!

All OAPs except 'buckets Sue' and 'Corporate governance' Jon back where have they gone??

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

GOB wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

British Land plans £42m Plymouth leisure complex

Bring it on

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's pretty impressive!

Oh, I dunno. Where's the narrow alleyways between buildings, and there must be room to shoe a dentist surgery somewhere. It's not been thought through.

I hope someone has looked them in the eye

I like Hugh [you]    

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

GOB wrote:

Tgwu wrote:

British Land plans £42m Plymouth leisure complex

Bring it on

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's pretty impressive!

Oh, I dunno. Where's the narrow alleyways between buildings, and there must be room to shoe a dentist surgery somewhere. It's not been thought through.

...and a lighthouse.

spowell92 wrote:

X Isle wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

No it isn't.

A new grandstand is needed but NOT THAT ONE.

It's a piece of crap and you know it.

It's proportionate and achievable. We aren't a 'sleeping giant' fanbase and we don't have much money. We have a largely apathetic following who walk away quicker than you can say fickle.

People can believe in the myth of the green army being unlimited in size if they wish to, for me it's delusions of grandeur. I stopped believing that when crowds started to dwindle in the championship, watching great football at a good level.

......and I have no interest in picking open that debate YET again either. That's my position and until and unless I see regular lock outs at Home Park in the future it'll remain so. I rather suspect that'll never happen in any of our lifetimes.

Knock the whole grandstand down X'y and let Mr B put up a few more hotel rooms and cinema screens in its place. Forget replacing the grandstand, it's a cost that's holding this man's cash cow back! Just the horseshoe will suffice, it's perfectly achievable for this apathetic fan base. 6,500 regulars in League Two, PAH! Why risk ourselves for the ambition of a sustainable League One club?! I hear it's much cheaper to have a sustainable club in League Two, and dude if money's really tight I hear in the conference some players take up other jobs because their clubs don't pay enough!   

Oh I'm oh so feckin grateful. Nonsense X'y. Where does it stop? You may be an old grump who's happy to see out his days watching the club in whatever form of life, but I'm 21 and your selfish attitude to place us in a mundane existence of limbo between the basement divisions just because you don't like the current facilities doesn't really sit too well with myself. My optimism for the future may be completely feckin idiotic and pointless, but having hopes and dreams of what Argyle may achieve one day is part of the excitement in supporting this club. Cap those dreams and remove those aspirations for the sake of an Ice Rink, hotel and dentists and you've got to ask yourself, what is the feckin point?

That is a really great post! if Brent and the gratefuls have their way home park will just be a bigger version of plainmoor.

We have always been crap because we have never shown any ambition. Building a mini stand that gives us a maximum capacity of 17k does not show any ambition. Its really that simple.