"The Way Forward" Previously Chris Webb/Greenman joke thread

knecht wrote:

My love affair with pasoti began to deteriorate because of how they treated individuals who went against the grain. Peggy springs to mind. Most importantly the piss-taking of Penz over there was pathetic. Their crimes? One's was she was a woman who dared not to know her place. The other's was he was "flamboyant" in his persistent & vociferous challenges. I thought "That's not right" and it contributing to the end of my trust in how pasoti was run. That's why I'm so-called "defending" hairy now. If a site doesn't allow mavericks, what's the point of "democratic" in the title? That's why I have jumped in on this one.

And, just for the record, I'm not actually defending hairy - like Peggy & Penz he is perfectly capable of standing his own ground. I don't like talking personalities but it seems relevant in this case - about a third of the time I think he's interesting & fun, about a third of the time his frequent attempts to provoke a reaction pisses me off, about a third of the time I rush past what he posts. That's roughly what I do with many on here. I suspect that's what many do with me. But it's not about hairy. I believe I'm actually defending this site and not wanting it to go down the pasoti mod route.

When I was a mod early on I came in for shed-loads of personal abuse from, in particular, two posters on here. I was told in the mod-room as well as via a number of PMs that I should do something about it. As it (mostly) didn't bother me I didn't do anything. I was wrong. I think what I didn't do directly contributed to the deterioration into abuse on here. I should have done something not for my sake but for the site's sake. That's one reason I think what the current mods are doing is so good. Their attempt to restore a bit more order is absolutely the right thing to do. I think they're a good team - all of them. There is none of them that I wouldn't vote for.

But that has to be even-handed. Just because you don't like someone that shouldn't mean that you focus on them alone. The constitution states "The moderators will all be expected to contribute to the day to day running of the forum and to moderate the boards calmly,fairly and without personal bias". He certainly makes the job harder for mods but that's part of the job. He certainly challenges posters and why not? As long as it is done within the "ATD ethos of free speech within the law and common decency". I don't see that hairy is breaking that. Pain in the neck maybe but that goes for various on here.

If anyone thinks that hairy is out to provoke them, I usually find that if someone is clearly out to provoke me that the best way of dealing with it is not to be provoked.

I agree with what GOB, Sir Frank & Tring say above.

To use Peggy and Penz as examples of how hairy is being wronged on ATD, is pretty insulting to both of the former, knecht. Abuse dished out to them on Pasoti was plain wrong. But to compare that to someone like hairy, with his history, is laughable.

It beats the hell out of me how someone who seems to have such a massive chip on his shoulder about ATD, it's moderators, its posting policies, and a shed load of its posters, continues to want to post here. Surely there must be something you like about a site that makes you want to stay and post? The only think I can think of that hairy likes about ATD, is YOU knecht!

But then everybody likes knecht!

Just ignore Hairy, I do.

Iggy wrote:

I agree with everything that you say Gob but what winds me up is Hairy playing the victim - when he is just as bad as those who are doing unforgivable wrong against him- and true to form when a shitstorm blows up he disappears.
I would genuinely like to know what Hairys' beef is.

I had to go to work - sorry.

Also, I sent you a pm of 'my beef' and you replied - you certainly understood what my 'beef' was when you replied on April 27th.

This thread isn't related to that 'beef' - it's the fact that people are ridiculing a person (a real life person) and that person cannot respond on here as they're banned. ATD claims to have some form of moral superiority yet here's a thread of classless bullying garbage. Truth hurts doesn't it.

I don't fly off the handle in every thread - it's threads like these that get under my skin - they're plain nasty. That's not trolling, that's calling someone out (or a group out) - not trolling at all.

Czarcasm wrote:

...........
It beats the hell out of me how someone who seems to have such a massive chip on his shoulder about ATD, it's moderators, its posting policies, and a shed load of its posters, continues to want to post here. Surely there must be something you like about a site that makes you want to stay and post? .......

Fair question and it's one I've asked of others whose every post was to say how crap ATD is. It's a bit like walking into the lawn tennis at Wimbledon & demanding why they're not playing football. I don't think he's of that ilk but maybe hairy could answer that one himself.

It's threads like this that annoy me. If people want to post stuff like this, that's fine, but don't start with the 'troll' rubbish if you're called out on it. What do threads like these achieve? It's the usual suspects back slapping each other while they insult and rip the piss out of someone who cannot reply.

hairy j wrote:

It's threads like this that annoy me. If people want to post stuff like this, that's fine, but don't start with the 'troll' rubbish if you're called out on it. What do threads like these achieve? It's the usual suspects back slapping each other while they insult and rip the piss out of someone who cannot reply.

Oh FFS,

Gob
Mock
POI
Hugh Watt
EJH
Yeah Man
Lawnmowerman

These posters according to you are "the usual suspects"...

Wot no Tring?
Wot no Rickler?

FFS hairy, it's light-hearted piss-take based on Webbs Greenman account. An account used for far more devious means than an everyday piss-take.

You obviously have some sort of man crush on Webb to get so upset about this.

If its not this it's something else, let's be honest this isn't about the Chris Webb thread is it? What cracks me up is that enough people get annoyed with Hairy to cause a fuss and then he's the victim.
As for Knecht I agree mostly with most of what you say but to say that Hairy is being bullied I disagree. How the feck are we meant to stop the arguing at the same time as tolerating it? Fecked if I know?
Basically we either forget all about the new rules to stop the arguing or enforce them I couldn't give a feck either way but please could everybody let us know which way they want to play it?

I'd like to know what do I tell posters who complain to me about Hairy via PM's? Sorry - we just have to tolerate him - there's feck all I can do.

We have posters on here saying we should just ignore him, let it go, his (Hairy's) posts are posted in the very democratic nature that ATD alludes to etc etc. Many complaints don't see it that way and would like something done.

Do I continually make excuses for Hairy? Do I continually reply to the complainants that I will 'have a word', 'warn him', 'repeatedly warn him? I guarantee I'll be saying the same thing next month, and the month after and so on it goes.

Fecked if we do, fecked if we don't is how I feel at the moment. I can't believe for one moment that one poster is able to be so divisive and that there are actual apologists amongst us that decree we should just 'ignore'.

Anyway - As Iggy say's. Either way. The members of ATD need let us know how they want it to play out.

I'm done with the whole subject. I'll say no more on it.


Merry Xmas.

I'm not playing the victim either. Where have I said, blah blah, it's not fair?

Seriously Iggy, if Mr Obvious was wearing his Plain As The Nose On Your Face hat and was screaming in slow, resonant tones THIS IS STATING THE OBVIOUS, you'd still claim that you didn't understand. I even sent you a pm about the previous thing you didn't understand and you seemed to understand but niw you don't.

Webb/Newell - you even namechecked Newell in that pm and it wasn't even close to being in context. It's plain weird.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So does anyone have any idea how to resolve this situation? Even if things calm down today it will surely only be a matter of weeks or days before it kicks off again?

It won't be resolved, Frank. Hairy will always know more than anybody else about the internet, about forums, about trolling, about why nobody should ever say a word against Webb, and probably about everything else there is to know. So much more, in fact, that every so often he'll prove how much more he knows by posting something really over the top - some nasty porn references, say, or a picture of a disabled person. Somebody will have a go at him for posting whatever it is, and he'll respond with something nasty and probably quite personal. If he really pushes it he'll get a short suspension, from which he'll return all butter wouldn't melt. All will be quiet for a while, but eventually the need to prove just how much more he knows will take over again.

Meanwhile, some of us will bite, some of us will ignore him, and some of us will decide not to spend so much time on here. The battle, in my opinion, was lost some time ago.

hairy j wrote:

Iggy wrote:

I agree with everything that you say Gob but what winds me up is Hairy playing the victim - when he is just as bad as those who are doing unforgivable wrong against him-  and true to form when a shitstorm blows up he disappears.
I would genuinely like to know what Hairys' beef is.

I had to go to work - sorry.

Also, I sent you a pm of 'my beef' and you replied - you certainly understood what my 'beef' was when you replied on April 27th.

This thread isn't related to that 'beef' - it's the fact that people are ridiculing a person (a real life person) and that person cannot respond on here as they're banned. ATD claims to have some form of moral superiority yet here's a thread of classless bullying garbage. Truth hurts doesn't it.

I don't fly off the handle in every thread - it's threads like these that get under my skin - they're plain nasty. That's not trolling, that's calling someone out (or a group out) - not trolling at all.

why is he banned ? hairy you act like a buffoon sometimes but even youre not banned so what he did must be pretty bad !

Elias wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Iggy wrote:

I agree with everything that you say Gob but what winds me up is Hairy playing the victim - when he is just as bad as those who are doing unforgivable wrong against him-  and true to form when a shitstorm blows up he disappears.
I would genuinely like to know what Hairys' beef is.

I had to go to work - sorry.

Also, I sent you a pm of 'my beef' and you replied - you certainly understood what my 'beef' was when you replied on April 27th.

This thread isn't related to that 'beef' - it's the fact that people are ridiculing a person (a real life person) and that person cannot respond on here as they're banned. ATD claims to have some form of moral superiority yet here's a thread of classless bullying garbage. Truth hurts doesn't it.

I don't fly off the handle in every thread - it's threads like these that get under my skin - they're plain nasty. That's not trolling, that's calling someone out (or a group out) - not trolling at all.

why is he banned ? hairy you act like a buffoon sometimes but even youre not banned so what he did must be pretty bad !

He was banned as there was proof that he had used multiple accounts on here: The Spooner and he was also linked to the Greenman account by three posts (two from Mr President and one from Greenman) made within hours of eachother from the same IP address.

Person Of Interest wrote:

I'd like to know what do I tell posters who complain to me about Hairy via PM's? Sorry - we just have to tolerate him - there's feck all I can do.

We have posters on here saying we should just ignore him, let it go, his (Hairy's) posts are posted in the very democratic nature that ATD alludes to etc etc. Many complaints don't see it that way and would like something done.

Do I continually make excuses for Hairy? Do I continually reply to the complainants that I will 'have a word', 'warn him', 'repeatedly warn him? I guarantee I'll be saying the same thing next month, and the month after and so on it goes.

Fecked if we do, fecked if we don't is how I feel at the moment. I can't believe for one moment that one poster is able to be so divisive and that there are actual apologists amongst us that decree we should just 'ignore'.

Anyway - As Iggy say's. Either way. The members of ATD need let us know how they want it to play out.

I'm done with the whole subject. I'll say no more on it.


Merry Xmas.

It's a bummer.

The chances are that some sort of consensus will be agreed and everybody will heave a sigh of relief then somebody will blatantly transgress according to the "new" code, you mods will action whatever the appropriate agreed sanction in such an instance is, the transgressor just won't accept any of it and you'll be back to square one.

If someone wants desperately to make themselves look like a tit they will and there's nothing to be done to stop them.

Being someone who can only view this via a mobile with constaints on data allowances, at first, hairy was a gif meister for people with proper computers. This for me meant nothing. I have noticed that some of the stuff written by him is a bit 'funny'. In more recent times his behaviour online here has been a little fractious and questionable. I think that he needs to think about his online persona here, because to me 'hairy j' is a little trollish. Tis up to him or her to (sorry only an opinion and to assume and use the male gender) to behave in an acceptable manner, learn how to do that with help from us all or go and do something different instead.

hippo wrote:

Being someone who can only view this via a mobile with constaints on data allowances, at first, hairy was a gif meister for people with proper computers.  This for me meant nothing.   I have noticed that some of the stuff written by him is a bit 'funny'.  In more recent times his behaviour online here has been a little fractious and questionable.  I think that he needs to think about his online persona here, because to me 'hairy j' is a little trollish.  Tis up to him or her to (sorry only an opinion and to assume and use the male gender) to behave in an acceptable manner, learn how to do that with help from us all or go and do something different instead.

I completely agree with you on all of that which is making me feel that Hairy wants to find the 'banned' line and is not the slightest bit concerned if he uses ADT or not, he is playing a game.

Hairy, like his old man, doesn't really like it here and doesn't get it or the people that use it. Maybe he should do what Dad done and leave to make ATD a happier place, I expect that pasoti's need is greater anyway and I would love to see Hairy back on there!   

I know I am on his hit list but I think that ATD would be a worse place for losing him, but and having said that, if the majority think that he is spoiling their use of the site, as seems to be the case, then Hairy should be pushed.

Your problem Hairy is that you are now 100% predictable, why don't you just change your tact a bit? I don't think there are many that would actually want to see you banned but you certainly know how to piss people off and that view is gaining ground!

So what do we do?

Do we ban Hairy again for his Hope Rickler dies thread?

Do we ban Rickler for his die post?

Do we ban Knecht for understanding Hairy?

Do we ban Czar, Gob, Mock, Hugh Watt, EJH and Lawnmowerman for being ‘usual suspects’?

Do we ban some of the Mods because Hairy has a problem with them?

Do we ban all the admin team because they dare to deal with Hairy?

Do we ban Tring because he lives in Cyprus?

Where would it end?

Ban everyone because they post on here?

What is the common factor in most of the shit that happens on here?

Hairy.

Offensive posts, offensive gifs, abusive posts, name calling, emails, threatening PMs, complaints about via PMs and abuse reports (thanks ‘Sensible’!)

All of the above, by Hairy to get a reaction, by Hairy in reaction to others and complaints about Hairy.

You figure!

oh dear

This thread is his cnutish raison d'etre then.

I feel sorry for the Mods who cannot ignore him, Mods who I presume will eventually feck off because of him?

Peggy wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So does anyone have any idea how to resolve this situation? Even if things calm down today it will surely only be a matter of weeks or days before it kicks off again?

It won't be resolved, Frank. Hairy will always know more than anybody else about the internet, about forums, about trolling, about why nobody should ever say a word against Webb, and probably about everything else there is to know. So much more, in fact, that every so often he'll prove how much more he knows by posting something really over the top - some nasty porn references, say, or a picture of a disabled person. Somebody will have a go at him for posting whatever it is, and he'll respond with something nasty and probably quite personal. If he really pushes it he'll get a short suspension, from which he'll return all butter wouldn't melt. All will be quiet for a while, but eventually the need to prove just how much more he knows will take over again.

Meanwhile, some of us will bite, some of us will ignore him, and some of us will decide not to spend so much time on here. The battle, in my opinion, was lost some time ago.

This, absolutely but battles can be lost before final victory is achieved.

ps I for one, have never complained to the mods about anyone.It's their job to make decisions. If they did that, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. If members don't like what decisions they make, the democratic election process will undoubtedly restore the balance.

It just shows how there is so little going on regarding the HHP development at present.

James Brent (yes you can call him that without being one of his minions) must be thankful that Hairy is causing upset for for some of the usual antagonists on here with his points of view (come back sensible all is forgiven).

Just foreward your address Hairy and Mr James Brent or one of his underlings will have a cheque in the post for you.....for taking the heat off of him.   ....  

I am not so sure about that Zyph, I can multi task!   

Tringreen wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So does anyone have any idea how to resolve this situation? Even if things calm down today it will surely only be a matter of weeks or days before it kicks off again?

It won't be resolved, Frank. Hairy will always know more than anybody else about the internet, about forums, about trolling, about why nobody should ever say a word against Webb, and probably about everything else there is to know. So much more, in fact, that every so often he'll prove how much more he knows by posting something really over the top - some nasty porn references, say, or a picture of a disabled person. Somebody will have a go at him for posting whatever it is, and he'll respond with something nasty and probably quite personal. If he really pushes it he'll get a short suspension, from which he'll return all butter wouldn't melt. All will be quiet for a while, but eventually the need to prove just how much more he knows will take over again.

Meanwhile, some of us will bite, some of us will ignore him, and some of us will decide not to spend so much time on here. The battle, in my opinion, was lost some time ago.

This, absolutely but battles can be lost before final victory is achieved.

ps I for one, have never complained to the mods about anyone.It's their job to make decisions. If they did that, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. If members don't like what decisions they make, the democratic election process will undoubtedly restore the balance.

You sound rather smug Trinny about never complaining to the mods about anyone........of course you have caused trouble in other ways .....and you probably haven't realized what you've done.

seadog wrote:

This thread is his cnutish raison d'etre then.

I feel sorry for the Mods who cannot ignore him, Mods who I presume will eventually feck off because of him?

It's your turn next Saltybloke. Don't know how you've got away with it for so long.

zyph wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Peggy wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So does anyone have any idea how to resolve this situation? Even if things calm down today it will surely only be a matter of weeks or days before it kicks off again?

It won't be resolved, Frank. Hairy will always know more than anybody else about the internet, about forums, about trolling, about why nobody should ever say a word against Webb, and probably about everything else there is to know. So much more, in fact, that every so often he'll prove how much more he knows by posting something really over the top - some nasty porn references, say, or a picture of a disabled person. Somebody will have a go at him for posting whatever it is, and he'll respond with something nasty and probably quite personal. If he really pushes it he'll get a short suspension, from which he'll return all butter wouldn't melt. All will be quiet for a while, but eventually the need to prove just how much more he knows will take over again.

Meanwhile, some of us will bite, some of us will ignore him, and some of us will decide not to spend so much time on here. The battle, in my opinion, was lost some time ago.

This, absolutely but battles can be lost before final victory is achieved.

ps I for one, have never complained to the mods about anyone.It's their job to make decisions. If they did that, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. If members don't like what decisions they make, the democratic election process will undoubtedly restore the balance.

You sound rather smug Trinny about never complaining to the mods about anyone........of course you have caused trouble in other ways .....and you probably haven't realized what you've done.

How do you state you've not complained to the Mods in a 'smug' manner?   

FWIW, I've never complained to the Mods either. (Did I write that smugly?)

Tring's chillaxed, Zyph. If he wasn't, then yours would undoubtedly be precisely the type of post that instigates another row.

I think that anybody who was in any doubt about the mods position should be in no doubt now. What I would like to know is do we enforce the rules that we started to try and end the bickering or ignore them and say we tried but it didn't work?
I would really like to see a poll about it.