The Richard Burton V Richard Blight grudge match showdown originally posted in the wrong forum by spolly

I do not agree with you at all Sam, I think he would suck up to a majority view point or, the 'more in power' viewpoint. Nether-the-less, he like everyone else is permitted to comment on here as I am.

WTF?

Turned in this morning after nights having simply landed a friendly jab overnight (do smileys mean something different over 'ere?) and I wake up to some sort of obituary from being 'hounded'.

If that was a 'hounding' then I missed it, more like a couple of yapping yorkies greeting an unexpected house guest, lots of noise and hostility but no threat whatsoever. I'm a big boy and this is a big boys board, my storm trooper friend, if a little cheeky, is right, it's all water off a ducks back.

So I'm sorry to disappoint but rumours of my demise are premature. Now I'm going to have a nice hearty fry-up but when I'm done, seeing as there's an unfeasible amount of knicker twisting and misinformation bandied about here in my name I'll endeavour to put things in order.

Now, red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all?

I agree with you on that Smiffy, nobody on this site is a threat.

cya in a bit   

X Isle wrote:

WTF?

Turned in this morning after nights having simply landed a friendly jab overnight (do smileys mean something different over 'ere?) and I wake up to some sort of obituary from being 'hounded'.

If that was a 'hounding' then I missed it, more like a couple of yapping yorkies greeting an unexpected house guest, lots of noise and hostility but no threat whatsoever. I'm a big boy and this is a big boys board, my storm trooper friend, if a little cheeky, is right, it's all water off a ducks back.

So I'm sorry to disappoint but rumours of my demise are premature. Now I'm going to have a nice hearty fry-up but when I'm done, seeing as there's an unfeasible amount of knicker twisting and misinformation bandied about here in my name I'll endeavour to put things in order.

Now, red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all?

Jesus wept, have you no class!
It's tomato sauce 

X Isle wrote:

WTF?

Turned in this morning after nights having simply landed a friendly jab overnight (do smileys mean something different over 'ere?) and I wake up to some sort of obituary from being 'hounded'.

If that was a 'hounding' then I missed it, more like a couple of yapping yorkies greeting an unexpected house guest, lots of noise and hostility but no threat whatsoever. I'm a big boy and this is a big boys board, my storm trooper friend, if a little cheeky, is right, it's all water off a ducks back.

So I'm sorry to disappoint but rumours of my demise are premature. Now I'm going to have a nice hearty fry-up but when I'm done, seeing as there's an unfeasible amount of knicker twisting and misinformation bandied about here in my name I'll endeavour to put things in order.

Now, red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all?

You and Lord Tis would make a lovely couple.   

So another cry of bullying comes to nothing.   

If he put tomato sauce on a fry up then he deserves a feckin hounding. HP.

Iggy wrote:

So another cry of bullying comes to nothing.   

It did amuse me when muted that Spolly had 'found his ATD feet'.   

Finding PAFC Forums all of a sudden, and giving forthright views when you have no idea of the Forum history over the road for the last 15 years, and here for the last 3, can make an opinion markedly less than 'considered'.

As for Smiffy, I usually picture a scene of being in a pub with him spouting his usual sanctimonious crap and wondering how many minutes he'd last before being put on his arse. Single figures I recks, foreshore.

The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table.

Right, here goes. Fair warning to Winter and others who feel they can't handle 'wordsmithery' or anything longer than 140 characters of banality, it'll no doubt be a long one. If it helps I'll title the various grenades thrown my way so you can select your own to watch it sail out the ground off the sweet spot of my bat.........

Banned from PASOTI

Absolutley no idea where that came from. I've taken a self imposed break because it was becoming boring and nonsensical. I'm a firm believer in not doing something if it affords you no enjoyment and have done this many times over the years. It's never as a result of being 'hounded out' or defeated in battle (you know me well enough to know I've no tendency to back away from a fight). So no cyber flouce either, just boredom and beffudlement at some of the posters on there. I realised I needed a break when I found myself reading people rip into our top scorer whilst beating the league leaders to break into the play-offs. We all support Argyle right?

'Crawl back under your PASOTI stone'

I can't I don't exclusively reside there. I follow both sites, always have done. I consider myself independent, my own man.

I only registered here during the AFC Heaney/Ridsdale period when there were far too many posters on PASOTI rolling over or even rolling out the red carpet for my liking. ATD is the natural home for dissenters and I was dissenting. TBH i'd post more here if my mobile could cope better with it. It frustrates the f**k outta me and as I rarely fire up the PC these days it's just easier to use PASOTI. My views are consistent whichever site I use so it makes no odds to me really.

'Wrong horse'

As i've mentioned the AFC H/R period now is a good time to tackle this one head on. I backed the BEST horse.

It might not have been a perfect undefeatable prize stallion with no blemishes. However it was infinitely better than the Blackpool beach donkey on a walking holiday that colluded at Lanhydrock golf club with the knackers yard pony. Better too than the Tory show pony with no pedigree. Neither were open to anyone looking in their mouths while presenting themselves as gift horses.

Post NWO I wanted transparency, openness, honesty and trust, who didn't? With the three amigo pre-ordained carve up we were presented with more smoke and mirrors than a fire in a bedroom furniture showroom. James Brent represented something better and I make absolutely no apologies for wanting him over the alternatives.

You make judgement calls on the facts in front of you and the instincts you have developed over time. To that end I backed the RIGHT horse, because however bad you think things are now, real or imagined (and there's a LOT of imagination on both sites!!) it's infinitely better than it would've been in year three of a Kevin Heaney and Peter Ridsdale tenure.

It's disappointed me that the transparency, openness, honesty and trust hasn't been to the gold standard it could and should have been. Undoubtedly. But am I supposed to impose some form of revisionist retrospective re-imagining of the relative merits of Heaney and Ridsdale?, liquidation even? Am I supposed to conclude that either of those choices were ACTUALLY better than James Brent?

Sorry to disappoint but in a thousand parallel universes i'd make the same judgement, i'd back the BEST horse and that was James Brent.

Now, the assumption is that i'll support the Brent tenure until my last breath. To believe that is to do yourselves, and me, a disservice. If presented with a lifetimes supply of chocolate or a lifetimes supply of sh*t, i'll pick the chocolate thank you very much. If it looks like chocolate, smells like chocolate and tastes like chocolate, it's chocolate. If however over time the deliveries start to look a bit dubious, smell a bit peculiar and start to leave a distinctly bitter 'chugnutty' note in the mouth, then i'll call it as sh*t and stop eating it.

Have we reached that point yet? You say "hell yeah, burn the witch", I say no. Again, if you want me to apologise for disagreeing with the baying mob you'll have a long wait, if you're honest you'd respect me (even!!) less if I did.

Other opinions exist, believe me I know that, but for me, to date, I don't he has failed to deliver anything he promised. He actually made very few promises, raised very few aspirations or expectations. Over expectation is a longstanding bugbear of mine, it touches everything I rile against and this is no exception. People expect promotion every season, they expected a 50,000 seater stadium, they expected Pep Guardiola as manager, Messi and Suarez as Argyle's ' 'M&S' strike force.

To me people thought "oh we're out of administration now, here we go, blank canvass, no debts, big fish-small pool, it'll be a doddle". Is that really the owners fault those expectations are so unrealistic?, he's done nothing to instigate that.

We must always hold everyone at the club to account. As I say i've been disappointed in some of the things that've happened, it's been far from perfect, but i'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Until such time as it's cancelled, and presently it's happening, we'll get a completed ground. It's not going to be the greatest ground but it's better than no ground and better than a sufficient horseshoe and a crumbling anachronism of a main stand. We've got an improving, competitive football team. It's not the greatest team but it's better than no team and better than a perennial also-ran team playing russian roulette with the non-league.

It's not perfect but the difference is I don't expect perfection. I anticipate 'lack of ambition' and 'acceptance of mediocrity' responses, to save the bother I'll half volley 'lack of perspective' and 'refusal to accept reality' responses back down the line. T'was ever thus.

Hypocrite

This seems to be your one Gob and I'm genuinely unclear what you mean, feel free to elaborate. If anything i'm probably infuriatingly consistent. I don't see where I "curry favour" either, i'm pretty much universally disliked on whichever site I go to. If I'm trying to "curry favour", it's clearly not working

Hounded out?

No I wasn't, it could have been the intention Spo but I don't think it was as it wasn't a very good. effort. Bless you for caring (if i'm honest i'm under no illusion I was merely a convenient stick to poke ATD with mind) but I can fight my own corner and if I couldn't I wouldn't post anything with an even remotely positive outlook here!

No, you don't get innocent passers-by on ATD Spo. It's clearly signposted on the door what establishment you're entering and if you can't take it, don't give it, walk on by and choose a different place to drink.

I do see your point you are trying to make (to an extent) about the 'democratic' bit of ATD. Shouting down and name-calling isn't the gold standard of democracy and a civil society. However this isn't the UN so no-one can really play Ban Ki Moon. PASOTI is no more tolerant of negativity and ultimately democracy is about being able to give an opinion without hindrance and being able to disargee with an opinion without hindrance. If one see's being told to 'do one' in various shades of flowery colour as being a hindrance then sobeit, I don't.

I of course reserve the right to re-appraise that view when the memo comes round ordering all registered users to adopt the same haircut as the ATD site moderators on pain of death........ although I suspect as we're all gentlemen of a certain vintage we're all no stranger to 'all over' cranial sun cream application anyway  

Supports Crawley/Doesn't go to games/no legitimacy bla

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I've given up challenging the myths on PASOTI, I only need justify myself to myself and there's no case to answer. I'll indulge ATD just the once however as you've clearly been cross-breeding with 'the farm' and have picked up their diseases 

I withdrew my cash, my time and the scratching of my 'footballing itch' from Argyle for a very short timespan when Brendan was teeing Argyle up for his golf buddies Kevin and Peter. At no point was my love and emotional support for Argyle withdrawn. I wasn't going to give a penny to those sh*ts and would sooner have been liquidated and reformed. Crawley were on my doorstep and filled a hole. the cash withheld was more than compensated for by chucking my programme collection and NWO liveried Argyle items sales into the buckets once those three had been seen off.

And how did I do that?, by going to matches of course. Just as many as I have done each season throughout my adult life, just as many as shifts, location and a family to raise allow me to.

Does that allow me a legitimate voice. Damn fekkin right it does. If all fans looked at themselves and said they hadn't withdrawn their usual attendance at some time or another for one reason or another then they'd be looking at a solid gold hypocrite. At least mine was principled and with honourable intent, i've never stopped going because the football was sh*t, and plenty have done that.

That's that one to bed then for ATD too. You can try getting a rise if you wish but you won't, you'll just expose the fact you're the same as 'the farm' (your phrase not mine BTW).

So there you have it. I'm my own man, independent of site affiliation or bias, undeterred by what others think or say to or about me, always have been and always will be. I can't hold a grudge longer than I can hold my breath and can't fathom why others do, ATD/PASOTI, green tint/brown tint, positive/negative to me it's just two sides of the same coin, we're all Argyle supporters we just have a different way of looking at things. None of this has anything to do with yesterdays game of course and I'm somewhat surprised a simple non defeatist post created the need to take it off topic.

*yawn*

Czarcasm wrote:

Iggy wrote:

So another cry of bullying comes to nothing.   

It did amuse me when muted that Spolly had 'found his ATD feet'.   

Finding PAFC Forums all of a sudden, and giving forthright views when you have no idea of the Forum history over the road for the last 15 years, and here for the last 3, can make an opinion markedly less than 'considered'.

Well if someone would write a book on it then perhaps I could catch up. Although I wasn't entirely aware that the forum politics history was relevant in discussing our great football club, it's probably because it isn't.   

I also think my "hounding" comment has been taken to literally. I was simply pointing out the irony of the moment.

sanctimonious
ˌsaŋ(k)tɪˈməʊnɪəs/
adjective
derogatory
adjective: sanctimonious

   1.
   making a show of being morally superior to other people.
   "what happened to all the sanctimonious talk about putting his family first?"
   synonyms: self-righteous, holier-than-thou, churchy, pious, pietistic, moralizing, unctuous, smug, superior, priggish, mealy-mouthed, hypocritical,

(that's not for you, Spolly    )

Great thread this. Really enjoying it- X's post perfectly demonstrating why I can't help loving his rants even when I entirely disagree with them.

knecht wrote:

The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table.

That's only true if the old goon/crone or young buck/doe actually have something of value to bring to the table. Who can ever forget Dane and Jethro in the Bible ?
This is a football fan forum  discussing the footy, and it's local politics, hardly the juxtaposition of Narcissus and Goldmund.

X Isle wrote:

Right, here goes. Fair warning to Winter and others who feel they can't handle 'wordsmithery' or anything longer than 140 characters of banality, it'll no doubt be a long one. If it helps I'll title the various grenades thrown my way so you can select your own to watch it sail out the ground off the sweet spot of my bat.........

Banned from PASOTI

Absolutley no idea where that came from. I've taken a self imposed break because it was becoming boring and nonsensical. I'm a firm believer in not doing something if it affords you no enjoyment and have done this many times over the years. It's never as a result of being 'hounded out' or defeated in battle (you know me well enough to know I've no tendency to back away from a fight). So no cyber flouce either, just boredom and beffudlement at some of the posters on there. I realised I needed a break when I found myself reading people rip into our top scorer whilst beating the league leaders to break into the play-offs. We all support Argyle right?

'Crawl back under your PASOTI stone'

I can't I don't exclusively reside there. I follow both sites, always have done. I consider myself independent, my own man.

I only registered here during the AFC Heaney/Ridsdale period when there were far too many posters on PASOTI rolling over or even rolling out the red carpet for my liking. ATD is the natural home for dissenters and I was dissenting. TBH i'd post more here if my mobile could cope better with it. It frustrates the f**k outta me and as I rarely fire up the PC these days it's just easier to use PASOTI. My views are consistent whichever site I use so it makes no odds to me really.

'Wrong horse'  

As i've mentioned the AFC H/R period now is a good time to tackle this one head on. I backed the BEST horse.

It might not have been a perfect undefeatable prize stallion with no blemishes. However it was infinitely better than the Blackpool beach donkey on a walking holiday that colluded at Lanhydrock golf club with the knackers yard pony. Better too than the Tory show pony with no pedigree. Neither were open to anyone looking in their mouths while presenting themselves as gift horses.

Post NWO I wanted transparency, openness, honesty and trust, who didn't? With the three amigo pre-ordained carve up we were presented with more smoke and mirrors than a fire in a bedroom furniture showroom. James Brent represented something better and I make absolutely no apologies for wanting him over the alternatives.

You make judgement calls on the facts in front of you and the instincts you have developed over time. To that end I backed the RIGHT horse, because however bad you think things are now, real or imagined (and there's a LOT of imagination on both sites!!) it's infinitely better than it would've been in year three of a Kevin Heaney and Peter Ridsdale tenure.

It's disappointed me that the transparency, openness, honesty and trust hasn't been to the gold standard it could and should have been. Undoubtedly. But am I supposed to impose some form of revisionist retrospective re-imagining of the relative merits of Heaney and Ridsdale?, liquidation even? Am I supposed to conclude that either of those choices were ACTUALLY better than James Brent?

Sorry to disappoint but in a thousand parallel universes i'd make the same judgement, i'd back the BEST horse and that was James Brent.

Now, the assumption is that i'll support the Brent tenure until my last breath. To believe that is to do yourselves, and me, a disservice. If presented with a lifetimes supply of chocolate or a lifetimes supply of sh*t, i'll pick the chocolate thank you very much. If it looks like chocolate, smells like chocolate and tastes like chocolate, it's chocolate. If however over time the deliveries start to look a bit dubious, smell a bit peculiar and start to leave a distinctly bitter 'chugnutty' note in the mouth, then i'll call it as sh*t and stop eating it.

Have we reached that point yet? You say "hell yeah, burn the witch", I say no. Again, if you want me to apologise for disagreeing with the baying mob you'll have a long wait, if you're honest you'd respect me (even!!) less if I did.

Other opinions exist, believe me I know that, but for me, to date, I don't he has failed to deliver anything he promised. He actually made very few promises, raised very few aspirations or expectations. Over expectation is a longstanding bugbear of mine, it touches everything I rile against and this is no exception. People expect promotion every season, they expected a 50,000 seater stadium, they expected Pep Guardiola as manager, Messi and Suarez as Argyle's ' 'M&S' strike force.

To me people thought "oh we're out of administration now, here we go, blank canvass, no debts, big fish-small pool, it'll be a doddle". Is that really the owners fault those expectations are so unrealistic?, he's done nothing to instigate that.

We must always hold everyone at the club to account. As I say i've been disappointed in some of the things that've happened, it's been far from perfect, but i'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Until such time as it's cancelled, and presently it's happening, we'll get a completed ground. It's not going to be the greatest ground but it's better than no ground and better than a sufficient horseshoe and a crumbling anachronism of a main stand. We've got an improving, competitive football team. It's not the greatest team but it's better than no team and better than a perennial also-ran team playing russian roulette with the non-league.      

It's not perfect but the difference is I don't expect perfection. I anticipate 'lack of ambition' and 'acceptance of mediocrity' responses, to save the bother I'll half volley 'lack of perspective' and 'refusal to accept reality' responses back down the line. T'was ever thus.    

Hypocrite

This seems to be your one Gob and I'm genuinely unclear what you mean, feel free to elaborate. If anything i'm probably infuriatingly consistent. I don't see where I "curry favour" either, i'm pretty much universally disliked on whichever site I go to. If I'm trying to "curry favour", it's clearly not working

Hounded out?

No I wasn't, it could have been the intention Spo but I don't think it was as it wasn't a very good. effort. Bless you for caring (if i'm honest i'm under no illusion I was merely a convenient stick to poke ATD with mind) but I can fight my own corner and if I couldn't I wouldn't post anything with an even remotely positive outlook here!

No, you don't get innocent passers-by on ATD Spo. It's clearly signposted on the door what establishment you're entering and if you can't take it, don't give it, walk on by and choose a different place to drink.

I do see your point you are trying to make (to an extent) about the 'democratic' bit of ATD. Shouting down and name-calling isn't the gold standard of democracy and a civil society. However this isn't the UN so no-one can really play Ban Ki Moon. PASOTI is no more tolerant of negativity and ultimately democracy is about being able to give an opinion without hindrance and being able to disargee with an opinion without hindrance. If one see's being told to 'do one' in various shades of flowery colour as being a hindrance then sobeit, I don't.

I of course reserve the right to re-appraise that view when the memo comes round ordering all registered users to adopt the same haircut as the ATD site moderators on pain of death........ although I suspect as we're all gentlemen of a certain vintage we're all no stranger to 'all over' cranial sun cream application anyway      

Supports Crawley/Doesn't go to games/no legitimacy bla

Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I've given up challenging the myths on PASOTI, I only need justify myself to myself and there's no case to answer. I'll indulge ATD just the once however as you've clearly been cross-breeding with 'the farm' and have picked up their diseases 

I withdrew my cash, my time and the scratching of my 'footballing itch' from Argyle for a very short timespan when Brendan was teeing Argyle up for his golf buddies Kevin and Peter. At no point was my love and emotional support for Argyle withdrawn. I wasn't going to give a penny to those sh*ts and would sooner have been liquidated and reformed. Crawley were on my doorstep and filled a hole. the cash withheld was more than compensated for by chucking my programme collection and NWO liveried Argyle items sales into the buckets once those three had been seen off.

And how did I do that?, by going to matches of course. Just as many as I have done each season throughout my adult life, just as many as shifts, location and a family to raise allow me to.

Does that allow me a legitimate voice. Damn fekkin right it does. If all fans looked at themselves and said they hadn't withdrawn their usual attendance at some time or another for one reason or another then they'd be looking at a solid gold hypocrite. At least mine was principled and with honourable intent, i've never stopped going because the football was sh*t, and plenty have done that.

That's that one to bed then for ATD too. You can try getting a rise if you wish but you won't, you'll just expose the fact you're the same as 'the farm' (your phrase not mine BTW).

So there you have it. I'm my own man, independent of site affiliation or bias, undeterred by what others think or say to or about me, always have been and always will be. I can't hold a grudge longer than I can hold my breath and can't fathom why others do, ATD/PASOTI, green tint/brown tint, positive/negative to me it's just two sides of the same coin, we're all Argyle supporters we just have a different way of looking at things. None of this has anything to do with yesterdays game of course and I'm somewhat surprised a simple non defeatist post created the need to take it off topic.    

Can you just run through that once more please Smiffy?

Winter Green wrote:

knecht wrote:

The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table.

That's only true if the old goon/crone or young buck/doe actually have something of value to bring to the table. Who can ever forget Dane and Jethro in the Bible ?
This is a football fan forum  discussing the footy, and it's local politics, hardly the juxtaposition of Narcissus and Goldmund.

You know, up until your post, I had always called him 'Narziss'!! I've just googled it ...... I must have read the half-translated version all those years ago.  I still have it on my bookshelves for nostalgic reasons.

PS I think lots of this discussion has next to nothing to do with football and tons to do with personality & politics. I repeat my point that was in response to a suggestion that Master Powell should read his history .... "The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table".

PPS And I really didn't look up whether there was actually a Dane & Jethro in the Bible.   

PPPS in response to Smiffy, I can understand why you did it but I've never really understood why people feel the need to respond to personal attacks - & at such length - it's hardly real life is it?

knecht wrote:

Winter Green wrote:

knecht wrote:

The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table.

That's only true if the old goon/crone or young buck/doe actually have something of value to bring to the table. Who can ever forget Dane and Jethro in the Bible ?
This is a football fan forum  discussing the footy, and it's local politics, hardly the juxtaposition of Narcissus and Goldmund.

You know, up until your post, I had always called him 'Narziss'!! I've just googled it ...... I must have read the half-translated version all those years ago.  I still have it on my bookshelves for nostalgic reasons.

PS I think lots of this discussion has next to nothing to do with football and tons to do with personality & politics. I repeat my point that was in response to a suggestion that Master Powell should read his history .... "The experience & the cynicism of age V the naivete & fresh view of youth. It's a close thing. Both bring something to the table".

I didn't really suggest Spowelly should read his history, knecht. Indeed, it would be virtually impossible for him to access the years of Forum debate, discussion and arguments that have shaped the way peoples entrenched opinions have come to be formed!

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make, and it's pretty straight forward - when you're not aware of what's happened in the past, don't go shouting the odds.

Czarcasm wrote:

......
I didn't really suggest Spowelly should read his history, knecht. Indeed, it would be virtually impossible for him to access the years of Forum debate, discussion and arguments that have shaped the way peoples entrenched opinions have come to be formed!

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make, and it's pretty straight forward - when you're not aware of what's happened in the past, don't go shouting the odds.

OK, sorry - that makes better sense.

Though it does mean that new posters have to sit & learn before they can post anything meaningful and even then the nuances & references will probably be lost on them.

A bit like real life then.

A bit like real life then. There's nothing wrong with listening and learning and, even when you think you've learnt, you'll still need more. Accepting that is part of life too. I'll get my coat

hippo wrote:

A bit like real life then.

Com certeza...