Man United - End of an era?

Mata, a reserve and 'only good going forward'?! Lordy. He's World Class and I'm surprised he's stayed in England. That's a very good signing indeed.

World class? Define that. He is hardly Messi or Ronaldo - or even, a Spanish regular.

I guess there are a load of different ways you could come to a conclusion about whether a player is 'world class' or not. Spain are World Cup winners so if you're talking literally, you'd have to say that all of the first 11 are World Class. For me, you could quite easily extend that tag to a few of the ones that don't make the  first 11 regularly (Mata?) such is their depth of quality.

Then if you look at the Premier League - thought of by many as the best league in the world - how many of us wouldn't have Juan Mata in an All-Star Premier League 11?

World class. Top draw. Diff'rent gravy.  He's all those, for me.

Czarcasm wrote:

how many of us wouldn't have Juan Mata in an All-Star Premier League 11?

Well me for one and I guess Jose Mourinho for another.

He is better than decent but not outstanding, if all you plastic Mancs think his inclusion will be some sort of panacea then I suspect you are in for a disappointment. I also feel he is not the perfect fit with RVP and Shrek, both of whom are back in training, Shirley United have a surfeit of fluffy ball players, what they really need is someone to anchor the pack imho, exactly the job Moo doesn't think he can do.

Panic buy.

Czarcasm wrote:

I guess there are a load of different ways you could come to a conclusion about whether a player is 'world class' or not. Spain are World Cup winners so if you're talking literally, you'd have to say that all of the first 11 are World Class. For me, you could quite easily extend that tag to a few of the ones that don't make the  first 11 regularly (Mata?) such is their depth of quality.

Then if you look at the Premier League - thought of by many as the best league in the world - how many of us wouldn't have Juan Mata in an All-Star Premier League 11?

World class. Top draw. Diff'rent gravy.  He's all those, for me.

He is a very physically slight player with great technique, very good all round at going forward but a master at none.

There are much better wingers, creators and attacking mids about than Mata - better at shooting,  scoring, the through ball, crossing etc. One example being Ozil.

Infact in an Arsenal midfield with options like Ozil, Cazorla, Wilshere, Ramsey, Flamini - Mata wouldn't even guarantee a start.

A world class player starts the important games every time for club and country, and is the envy of other clubs in the league and further afield.

Ozil, Kompany, Yaya Toure, Suarez, Van Persie, Rooney, Aguero, Cabaye. Just about the only real world class players in the Premier League. I'd sooner include Vidic and Hart than Mata in all honesty - two players considered vital by their managers, but not at top form for some time.

Mata stood out as a creator in the Chelsea team and had a few good seasons, but it has been in a very poor Chelsea team.

It's a bizarre signing for me, with Kagawa an extremely similar player for an identical position available. A gritty centre mid, that was what he needed. When Cardiff have a better player in Gary Medel than Manchester United have in theitlr entire centre midfield, it shows the dearth of centre mid options currently.

Games are won in the centre of the park on the credentials of those two or three string pullers - and Manchester United will continue to flounder until they beef up.

But whether they play regularly for their national team depends on the quality of the squad shorely. When you have an embarrassment of riches in midfield like Spain, not strolling in to that team is no disgrace.

And I know price tags don't necessarily give an exact pointer to a players capability, but the fact PSG rated Cabaye at 14m, while Newcastle wanted 20, this gives an indication of his standing. There's some strange interest in players at the minute. Billionaires Monaco are interested in Tom Ince, so PSG signing Cabaye raises slightly less of an eyebrow.

Czarcasm wrote:

But whether they play regularly for their national team depends on the quality of the squad shorely. When you have an embarrassment of riches in midfield like Spain, not strolling in to that team is no disgrace.

And I know price tags don't necessarily give an exact pointer to a players capability, but the fact PSG rated Cabaye at 14m, while Newcastle wanted 20, this gives an indication of his standing. There's some strange interest in players at the minute. Billionaires Monaco are interested in Tom Ince, so PSG signing Cabaye raises slightly less of an eyebrow.

It's no disgrace but it serves as a reminder of what world class really is - Andres Iniesta, proven footballer on the world stage season after season for both club and country.

As for Cabaye, I am shellshocked Newcastle are settling for £20m as it seems a poor offer.

However by the summer, out of Mata and Cabaye, one will be a league Champion, with an international side built around him, looking forward to Champions League football next season. The other will be playing for a big club on paper, but a club in decline, with no European campaign to look forward to, and marginal prospects of silverware.

ejh wrote:

Ozil, Kompany, Yaya Toure, Suarez, Van Persie, Rooney, Aguero

In addition to these players, you have Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Iniesta, Pique, Thiago Silva, Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Ribery, Lahm, Falcao, Tevez, Robben, Reus, Neymar, Pirlo (and more besides) all playing on the continent.

I just really don't think Mata belongs in that bracket of 'world class' players.

He had two good seasons, in struggling Chelsea sides, but did not reach the levels of dominance these others have over a season or successive seasons.

City have players like David Silva and Samir Nasri who I wouldn't describe as world class either, Real Madrid have Modric, Chelsea have Oscar, PSG have Lucas. I'm not sure these clubs would even fancy a swap with Mata.


So in terms of a record breaking signing at £37m (the highest Manchester United have ever spent, for a player, lets face it, Chelsea don't even want), is extremely odd. Usually money like that, and records like that are broken for top accomplished players at the top of their game, with managers sobbing as they lose the player that has been carrying them.

Mata just doesn't tick these boxes.

Cabaye is 28 now. His career thus far and his ability as a player have pretty much been reflected in the teams he's played for. A move to PSG is great for him and will undoubtedly line his wallet nicely, but it'll be interesting to see how many times he actually gets on the pitch.

Czarcasm wrote:

Cabaye is 28 now. His career thus far and his ability as a player have pretty much been reflected in the teams he's played for. A move to PSG is great for him and will undoubtedly line his wallet nicely, but it'll be interesting to see how many times he actually gets on the pitch.  

I would have thought so. An extremely creative player, a brilliant passer, but with defensive discipline and an ability to tackle. Alongside Yaya Toure he is one of the top two centre mids in the Premier League; both can play in creative roles, but both can do the grittier engine and defensive work in the big games, accept defensive responsibilities, and still produce man of the match performances.

He will be a key player there I am sure, particularly as he is already a key man in the French national side. And has won a title with Lille. The French footballing world is clearly aware of his talents.

How he ended up at Newcastle in the first place is the bizarre question.

hairy j wrote:

Mata, a reserve and 'only good going forward'?! Lordy. He's World Class and I'm surprised he's stayed in England. That's a very good signing indeed.

He cant track back and defend hence why Mouriniho dropped him and let him go. Attacking play he is a great player an a valuable asset to have if the utd strikers make good on his supply.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Cabaye is 28 now. His career thus far and his ability as a player have pretty much been reflected in the teams he's played for. A move to PSG is great for him and will undoubtedly line his wallet nicely, but it'll be interesting to see how many times he actually gets on the pitch.  

I would have thought so. An extremely creative player, a brilliant passer, but with defensive discipline and an ability to tackle. Alongside Yaya Toure he is one of the top two centre mids in the Premier League; both can play in creative roles, but both can do the grittier engine and defensive work in the big games, accept defensive responsibilities, and still produce man of the match performances.

He will be a key player there I am sure, particularly as he is already a key man in the French national side. And has won a title with Lille. The French footballing world is clearly aware of his talents.

How he ended up at Newcastle in the first place is the bizarre question.

Maybe his temperament's questionable? Seem to remember he pissed off the toon fans after he threatened to go on strike in the summer after Newcastle rejected Wengers £10m bid.

Angry wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Mata, a reserve and 'only good going forward'?! Lordy. He's World Class and I'm surprised he's stayed in England. That's a very good signing indeed.

He cant track back and defend hence why Mouriniho dropped him and let him go. Attacking play he is a great player an a valuable asset to have if the utd strikers make good on his supply.

It might be because he prefers Hazard and Oscar - neither of who track back.

Angry's all-star Premier League XI would feature four Lee Catermoles who all simultaneously 'track back'.

There's a reason Chelsea fans voted Mata their player of the year. Apparently, that was when Chelsea were a 'bad side' though. What a load of tripe.

The legs have gone impressive gentleman was our player of the year once upon a time.
I never saw him have a good game that year. All presentation and dressing room politician on the make, good with his thumbs.

hairy j wrote:

Angry wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Mata, a reserve and 'only good going forward'?! Lordy. He's World Class and I'm surprised he's stayed in England. That's a very good signing indeed.

He cant track back and defend hence why Mouriniho dropped him and let him go. Attacking play he is a great player an a valuable asset to have if the utd strikers make good on his supply.

It might be because he prefers Hazard and Oscar - neither of who track back.

Angry's all-star Premier League XI would feature four Lee Catermoles who all simultaneously 'track back'.

There's a reason Chelsea fans voted Mata their player of the year. Apparently, that was when Chelsea were a 'bad side' though. What a load of tripe.

notice how not once have isaid he was a bad player. he said he was very poor at defence play hence why chelsea allowed him to go.

Chelsea let him go as they have Oscar and Hazard and they're preferred. Stating Jose let him go as he lacks a defensive game is lazy journalism. Mata was voted player of the year by the fans and by the Chelsea players.

It could be that this is prep for financial fair play - I.e. you can't have eight players in your squad who play in the same position on £75,000 a week + no matter how big your club is. I think Mata left as it makes sense - they've also got a premium amount in terms of income from the transfer.
I hope he flourishes as he's a great pro and a tremendous player.

hairy j wrote:

Chelsea let him go as they have Oscar and Hazard and they're preferred. Stating Jose let him go as he lacks a defensive game is lazy journalism. Mata was voted player of the year by the fans and by the Chelsea players.

It could be that this is prep for financial fair play - I.e. you can't have eight players in your squad who play in the same position on £75,000 a week + no matter how big your club is. I think Mata left as it makes sense - they've also got a premium amount in terms of income from the transfer.
I hope he flourishes as he's a great pro and a tremendous player.

im no more a journalist than you a serious poster on here    

At least I've offered an opinion Angry instead of spouting stuff you've heard on Match of The Day. Not a 'serious poster'? Yep, completely - only a troll would come out with the impending financial fair play rules for a reason that a player is deemed surplus to requirements.

hairy j wrote:

Angry wrote:

hairy j wrote:

Mata, a reserve and 'only good going forward'?! Lordy. He's World Class and I'm surprised he's stayed in England. That's a very good signing indeed.

He cant track back and defend hence why Mouriniho dropped him and let him go. Attacking play he is a great player an a valuable asset to have if the utd strikers make good on his supply.

It might be because he prefers Hazard and Oscar - neither of who track back.

Angry's all-star Premier League XI would feature four Lee Catermoles who all simultaneously 'track back'.

There's a reason Chelsea fans voted Mata their player of the year. Apparently, that was when Chelsea were a 'bad side' though. What a load of tripe.

One of those seasons Chelsea finished 6th. If that is world class achievement, Mata has got himself a cushy little challenge at Old Trafford

Having said that, he was a Champions League and FA Cup winner in his first season and a Europa League Cup winner the following season and has been sold in his third season at Chelsea for more than they bought him for. He can't slide tackle like Robbie Savage can though.

It's obvious why Man Utd have bought him though - keeping on topic like a 'proper poster should'. Their current midfield isn't good enough. He's a very good addition and his goalscoring record isn't half bad - 1 in 4. He's got 30 caps for Spain too aged 25.

I've seen him play twice in the last year and both games he was stand out alone Man of the match in my opinion.

hairy j wrote:

Having said that, he was a Champions League and FA Cup winner in his first season and a Europa League Cup winner the following season and has been sold in his third season at Chelsea for more than they bought him for. He can't slide tackle like Robbie Savage can though.

It's obvious why Man Utd have bought him though - keeping on topic like a 'proper poster should'. Their current midfield isn't  good enough. He's a very good addition and his goalscoring record isn't half bad - 1 in 4. He's got 30 caps for Spain too aged 25.

Drogba won that Champions league for Chelsea, the other ten defended.

Game after game after game.

Mata's creativity contributed virtually nothing to that achievement.

God, the plastic Mancs having a wank cos they scraped past Cardiff.

Charlie Adam scored a cracker yesterday.

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