Man United - End of an era?

Hugh Watt wrote:

Angry wrote:

Chris Webb has moved on to pissing off man utd fans i see.  

To be fair if it stops them singing sectarian stuff, or about hillsborough and scousers in general it gets my vote. We dont really have a similar problem. That Pete Boyle does get on my tits tho as does anyone trying to be someone at a football club.

i wouldnt have thought those songs would have been a problem with fulham. I have no issue with them having a pop at scousers (minus hillsborough and heysel of course) no worse than what they say to them.

Since 2005 when the Glazers bought Manchester United they have spent £686m on debt, interest etc.

And far less on players.

roy keane announced tonight that we'd been brainwashed for years that the premier lge is the best in Europe   

in self promotion yes not in footballin terms.

mullered

awful.....just awful

I reckon we'd beat that shower at the moment.

even Fleetwood would   

i wonder how much more time before a UTD super fan wannabe director starts putting up murals around the ground to take the fans minds off things?

Will give it less than a year before Rooney starts wimpering about being unhappy at Man Utd.  

akagreengull wrote:

Will give it less than a year before Rooney starts wimpering about being unhappy at Man Utd.  

Then given more money to stay like the other 2 times.

Elias wrote:

roy keane announced tonight that we'd been brainwashed for years that the premier lge is the best in Europe   

in self promotion yes not in footballin terms.

mullered

In the days of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Drogba, Van Persie, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco, Fabregas, Mascherano, Defoe, Scholes, Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Carvalho, Evra, Ashley Cole, Cech, Reina and Van Der Sar....


All playing close to their prime within the same four year period (2007 - 2011)

The English Premier League was the best standard and most competitive in Europe.


These days it is in rapid decline. The players get paid ridiculous amounts but that quality has gone - the sheiks, the money, the profitable new start up leagues, the European power clubs - the top quality players have better options than to wash up in England.

Even Suarez, the league's best player, doesn't want to be here. It is only because Liverpool defied precedents and refused to sell him he is still here.

Roy Keane is hardly providing earth shattering insight with that one. Who genuinely believes that? Onoy the most insular MOTD viewer with no comprehension of external football. It is no secret any more that the England team is average, and the Premier League is declining in quality with each passing season.

For me the Prem is more watchable and less predictable this season than its ever been since its inception in '92.

We're nearly into March, there are four teams bunched up that could realistically win it, and none of them are Man United.

Who'd a fought it?

Czarcasm wrote:

For me the Prem is more watchable and less predictable this season than its ever been since its inception in '92.

We're nearly into March, there are four teams bunched up that could realistically win it, and none of them are Man United.

Who'd a fought it?

It's great to have a genuine title race on, but the quality still isn't there for me.

Giroud I don't really rate, and yet he could end up the lone striker that a title was built upon.

Chelsea have two rotten carcasses of former great players working up front. With less goals between them than Lukaku.

Liverpool attack with great panache, but their team is littered with second rate youth. I am very grateful they are developing the likes of Raheem Sterling, Jordan Henderson and Jon Flanagan - but it is hardly the class of '92 stuff. To be carrying three weak players such as that and still be in the race is a minor scandal. However I am a total hypocrite in that respect, and love Liverpool for committing to actually develop some English talent - because not many other clubs are doing their bit. Newcastle v Fulham - 1 English player in the starting 22 - this is the extent of the globalised era of the Premier League we are living in.

Manchester United have become woeful. No starting RB, a tangled mess of a defence, no midfield presence. Again we should be grateful the likes of Welbeck, Smalling, Jones and Cleverley are getting a game. But I'd rather see them have a game for Man Utd than England - because they just don't cut it. Somehow under Ferguson they played their part in title winning sides - now they just don't look like they belong. When other players stop carrying them, the stark realisation in the lack of quality brought about by some Greeks is real. People can blame Rio, Vidic, Van Persie, but the fact is they have proven themselves at the highest level and are on the way out. What is left of Manchester United have been carried to their success, instead of earning it. When Rooney and RVP stop hitting winners, when Rio and Vidic can't play 10/10 and keep a clean sheet between them, who is going to step up. If Adnan Januzaj is the big hope with about 2 goals and 2 assists all season, there has to be some concern.

Manchester City are a decent side. But there are crucial weaknesses - one being the clear lack of balance in the defence. Where great sides are built on great partnerships, Rio and Vidic, Terry and Carvalho, Adams and Winterburn etc., Manchester City have one outstanding CB and a series of poor partners. At the top level, such as v Chelsea, and Barcelona, it can prove quite an achilles heel.

Whereas you can name top quality players by the dozen from 5 years ago, this generation it is much more difficult. Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, Vidic, Anelka etc. are all washed up players now. Of this season I'd say Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany, Wilshere, Suarez, Sturridge, Hazard, Cahill and Cabaye have broken into top international form. The rest are either playing below their standard or are simply not that good.

I'd honestly say that Borussia Dortmund and Bayern Munich, or Real and Barca, have more quality in their respective two squads than the entire Premier League currently.

When Clubs sign foreign players not to play them but to market the brand and sell shirts what else can one expect. I go out of my way to make sure the big clubs and big earning players get none of my cash, I prefer Pepsi to Coke but when Beckham was on the Pepsi bottle i didnt buy it... and no, I don't have a cable/satellite subscription so they get none that way either. How many Janners would turn up at Home Park if it was £50, £60 a ticket?

oh dear just gets worse

I guess this is how they are keeping the fans happy   

ejh wrote:

In the days of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Drogba, Van Persie, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco, Fabregas,  Mascherano, Defoe, Scholes, Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Carvalho, Evra, Ashley Cole, Cech, Reina and Van Der Sar....


All playing close to their prime within the same four year period (2007 - 2011)

The English Premier League was the best standard and most competitive in Europe.


These days it is in rapid decline.

I quite enjoy when some self obsessed, know all, plank posts drivel like this.

2007-11, 10 major European club competitions, English teams win 1 out of 10, since then English clubs have won 2 out of 4, can somebody explain to me how that denotes a weakening of the EPL?

This really could be the end of the Man Utd era unless they can turn Olympiakos over at Old T (and they might yet do that) because winning the Champs League this year is their only realistic (yeah... I know) route into it for next year. And they may not even make the Europa League.

This will create a double whammy with a huge drop in the TV revenue on which all of their planning is predicated being re-inforced by a collapse of shirt sales in Singapore and the like.

None of the world's top players will want to play there either if there's no European football so even if they have money to spend they might not be able to spend it as they like.

I wonder which will shout the loudest out of Rooney's new deal and the desire of Vidic and, maybe, RvP to leave?

A perfect storm just could be brewing and it isn't all down to Agent Moyes.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

ejh wrote:

In the days of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Drogba, Van Persie, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco, Fabregas,  Mascherano, Defoe, Scholes, Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Carvalho, Evra, Ashley Cole, Cech, Reina and Van Der Sar....


All playing close to their prime within the same four year period (2007 - 2011)

The English Premier League was the best standard and most competitive in Europe.


These days it is in rapid decline.

I quite enjoy when some self obsessed, know all, plank posts drivel like this.

2007-11, 10 major European club competitions, English teams win 1 out of 10, since then English clubs have won 2 out of 4, can somebody explain to me how that denotes a weakening of the EPL?

The year Chelsea won the Champions league, it was their weakest team since pre-Mourinho, pre-2005. I know this because I watch them. The time they won they had the easiest route to the semis, then fluked past Barca with 10 men in a marvellous, earth shattering spectacle. Then in the final they defended for 95% of the game and scored their only chance. They won essentially on the back of three brilliant, outstanding performances from Dider Drogba, and ten other guys who defended astutely. Dider Drogba struggled to carry Chelsea in the other 38 cup finals that constituted the Premier Leaguethough, so sadly Chelsea finished 6th in the EPL, despite being such a great great side that conquered Europe.

As for the other major European silverware, are you referring to the Europa League? The tournament all genuinely big clubs fear to be entered into due being arduous, against mediocre competition and bringing no money or exposure. I didn't even watch that final, that's how important it was.

2007 - 2011: 5 out of a potential 10 Champions League finalists were English clubs. These were Liverpool (2007), Manchester United (2008, 2009, 2011), Chelsea (2008). During this period, the competition between the top clubs in England was pretty strong, and this was reflected well at European level. In 2007, 2008 and 2009, 3 out of the 4 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. The Premier league and English football, was dominant in Europe.

2012 onwards, Chelsea have fluked a Champions League, but it was just as flukey a win as Liverpool in 2005. There is no trend that Chelsea represents in that respect. The top teams in England have declined significantly in quality, and I have already named the individual players that were here in 2007 - 2011, and the lack of quality 2011 - present that there was in that period. Or do you contest my opinion that Antonio Valencia is not better than Cristiano Ronaldo, a broken Torres doesn't compare to a prime Drogba, and it doens't even matter about Liverpool's squad because they can't qualify for Europe any more, that's how much better they are.

So do you really think I am wrong in my concl6usions? 2007 - 2009, 9 out of a possible 12 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. This year, there is a genuine struggle to get even one club to the quarters, let alone beyond that.

ejh wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

ejh wrote:

In the days of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Drogba, Van Persie, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco, Fabregas,  Mascherano, Defoe, Scholes, Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Carvalho, Evra, Ashley Cole, Cech, Reina and Van Der Sar....


All playing close to their prime within the same four year period (2007 - 2011)

The English Premier League was the best standard and most competitive in Europe.


These days it is in rapid decline.

I quite enjoy when some self obsessed, know all, plank posts drivel like this.

2007-11, 10 major European club competitions, English teams win 1 out of 10, since then English clubs have won 2 out of 4, can somebody explain to me how that denotes a weakening of the EPL?

The year Chelsea won the Champions league, it was their weakest team since pre-Mourinho, pre-2005. I know this because I watch them. The time they won they had the easiest route to the semis, then fluked past Barca with 10 men in a marvellous, earth shattering spectacle. Then in the final they defended for 95% of the game and scored their only chance. They won essentially on the back of three brilliant, outstanding performances from Dider Drogba, and ten other guys who defended astutely. Dider Drogba struggled to carry Chelsea in the other 38 cup finals that constituted the Premier Leaguethough, so sadly Chelsea finished 6th in the EPL, despite being such a great great side that conquered Europe.

As for the other major European silverware, are you referring to the Europa League? The tournament all genuinely big clubs fear to be entered into due being arduous, against mediocre competition and bringing no money or exposure. I didn't even watch that final, that's how important it was.

2007 - 2011: 5 out of a potential 10 Champions League finalists were English clubs. These were Liverpool (2007), Manchester United (2008, 2009, 2011), Chelsea (2008). During this period, the competition between the top clubs in England was pretty strong, and this was reflected well at European level. In 2007, 2008 and 2009, 3 out of the 4 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. The Premier league and English football, was dominant in Europe.

2012 onwards, Chelsea have fluked a Champions League, but it was just as flukey a win as Liverpool in 2005. There is no trend that Chelsea represents in that respect. The top teams in England have declined significantly in quality, and I have already named the individual players that were here in 2007 - 2011, and the lack of quality 2011 - present that there was in that period. Or do you contest my opinion that Antonio Valencia is not better than Cristiano Ronaldo, a broken Torres doesn't compare to a prime Drogba, and it doens't even matter about Liverpool's squad because they can't qualify for Europe any more, that's how much better they are.  

So do you really think I am wrong in my concl6usions? 2007 - 2009, 9 out of a possible 12 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. This year, there is a genuine struggle to get even one club to the quarters, let alone beyond that.

And therein lies the problem when you are dealing with know all wankers, always the dumb ass response.

It's about winning you muppet, not turning up.

Why is it lucky when it doesn't fit your argument?

The best teams win things, that's why when I saw 11/2 last year for the two Boxhead teams to make the final I lumped on while you proles who only see what the pundits have told you to see had a wank over Messi and Ronaldo.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

This will create a double whammy with a huge drop in the TV revenue on which all of their planning is predicated being re-inforced by a collapse of shirt sales in Singapore and the like.

Not a major issue for them, the percentage of their T/O made up by CL money is far smaller than say for Chelski plus the new Prem deal for this season will more than cover the drop. Whether the lack of a CL place is that big an issue I am not shore, the Scum will still be one of the biggest five clubs in the world CL or not and players follow the money, Anzi, Monaco and Rooney are proof of that were it needed.

Agent Moyes is in fact the biggest problem, closely followed by the Glazers lack of cash compared to the likes of the Sandpit pedestrians and Abramovich, they still managed to hock up £65 mill for Fallover and Doesn't mind, not perhaps the two best buys in history, with that I refer you to my initial point, Agent Moyes makes AVB look like a godsend.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

ejh wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

ejh wrote:

In the days of Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Torres, Gerrard, Drogba, Van Persie, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco, Fabregas,  Mascherano, Defoe, Scholes, Vidic, Terry, Ferdinand, Carvalho, Evra, Ashley Cole, Cech, Reina and Van Der Sar....


All playing close to their prime within the same four year period (2007 - 2011)

The English Premier League was the best standard and most competitive in Europe.


These days it is in rapid decline.

I quite enjoy when some self obsessed, know all, plank posts drivel like this.

2007-11, 10 major European club competitions, English teams win 1 out of 10, since then English clubs have won 2 out of 4, can somebody explain to me how that denotes a weakening of the EPL?

The year Chelsea won the Champions league, it was their weakest team since pre-Mourinho, pre-2005. I know this because I watch them. The time they won they had the easiest route to the semis, then fluked past Barca with 10 men in a marvellous, earth shattering spectacle. Then in the final they defended for 95% of the game and scored their only chance. They won essentially on the back of three brilliant, outstanding performances from Dider Drogba, and ten other guys who defended astutely. Dider Drogba struggled to carry Chelsea in the other 38 cup finals that constituted the Premier Leaguethough, so sadly Chelsea finished 6th in the EPL, despite being such a great great side that conquered Europe.

As for the other major European silverware, are you referring to the Europa League? The tournament all genuinely big clubs fear to be entered into due being arduous, against mediocre competition and bringing no money or exposure. I didn't even watch that final, that's how important it was.

2007 - 2011: 5 out of a potential 10 Champions League finalists were English clubs. These were Liverpool (2007), Manchester United (2008, 2009, 2011), Chelsea (2008). During this period, the competition between the top clubs in England was pretty strong, and this was reflected well at European level. In 2007, 2008 and 2009, 3 out of the 4 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. The Premier league and English football, was dominant in Europe.

2012 onwards, Chelsea have fluked a Champions League, but it was just as flukey a win as Liverpool in 2005. There is no trend that Chelsea represents in that respect. The top teams in England have declined significantly in quality, and I have already named the individual players that were here in 2007 - 2011, and the lack of quality 2011 - present that there was in that period. Or do you contest my opinion that Antonio Valencia is not better than Cristiano Ronaldo, a broken Torres doesn't compare to a prime Drogba, and it doens't even matter about Liverpool's squad because they can't qualify for Europe any more, that's how much better they are.  

So do you really think I am wrong in my concl6usions? 2007 - 2009, 9 out of a possible 12 Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. This year, there is a genuine struggle to get even one club to the quarters, let alone beyond that.

And therein lies the problem when you are dealing with know all wankers, always the dumb ass response.

It's about winning you muppet, not turning up.

Why is it lucky when it doesn't fit your argument?

The best teams win things, that's why when I saw 11/2 last year for the two Boxhead teams to make the final I lumped on while you proles who only see what the pundits have told you to see had a wank over Messi and Ronaldo.

Still not engaging your brain are you.

When Chelsea, the sixth best team in England in 2012, wins the Champions League defending for 90 mins and scoring their only chance, with Roberto Di Matteo as interim manager, it doesn't mean English football and the Premier League is dominant.

When the Premier League has three teams in the Champions League semi finals three years on the trot, it kind does mean English football is dominant. In terms of being the toughest league in Europe with the best teams and the best players.

Unfortunately whilst English football was unquestionably dominant, there was one side out there which was simply better than any of them. They had the best player in the world, and were for my money the best team that has ever played football.

I will try to name it off the top of my head.

---------------- Valdes

Dani Alves - Mascherano - Pique - Abidal

-------------- Busquets

--------- Xavi -------- Iniesta

Villa  --------- Messi --------- Pedro


As for strength in depth in the league however, England was the place to be for a lot of top players.

The problem now however is that so many decent players have left, English football is not as powerful as it was. Manchester City are supposed to be this powerhouse at home, 100% record all season. Bayern Munich and Barcelona, a poorer imitation of their former glorious teams as well, had no problems outplaying them.

There is no English club currently that can go into a match with Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Borussia Dortmund, Bayern Munich or Juventus and be favourites.

If you think because Chelsea won in 2012 this overrides this continuous, obvious decline then you are even more stupid than I realised.

Manchester United found their match against Olympiakos - a side that is grateful just to have made it to the knockout stage - and that is the supposed champions of England.

I think Tis & ejh just need to flop their knobs out on the table to settle this once and for all.   

Czarcasm wrote:

I think Tis & ejh just need to flop their knobs out on the table to settle this once and for all.   

Whatever I post he just says a statement the opposite, and gives me dogs abuse instead.

In the '12 Years' thread just as in this one, he never validates his dumb opinions with any kind of logic or explanation, he just gets abusive.  

Less abuse, more logic, that's all I expect.  

I got banned from Pasoti from saying this was a more educated forum, so it is the least I expect.

ejh wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

I think Tis & ejh just need to flop their knobs out on the table to settle this once and for all.   

Whatever I post he just says a statement the opposite, and gives me dogs abuse instead.

In the '12 Years' thread just as in this one, he never validates his dumb opinions with any kind of logic or explanation, he just gets abusive.  

Less abuse, more logic, that's all I expect.  

I got banned from Pasoti from saying this was a more educated forum, so it is the least I expect.

You have to excuse Tis, he is an Exeter supporter. As he's banned from Exeweb & doesn't watch Exeter any more, coming on here is the only time he's allowed out.