Today's Chip Paper

Reading Ade's post only serves to remind me just how much PASOTI has changed in recent times.

I've been on there since it was Argyle.org.uk, having registered first in 1997 as London Janner (there weren't any others in the capital then) and then as myself.

I remember the days when all the posts would be wrapped up in an email digest, so you wouldn't miss anything that was being said. It was around 2002 when the level of contributions began to really rise, making that impossible to keep up with.

That was when the club began to rise, of course. More and more people wanted to comment about the club and revel in the good times.

So much so that it was a simple process to generate a couple of books of Argyle memoirs, raising money for the old Trust along the way, just by asking PASOTI for contributions.

As Ade suggests, there were examples of deeply personal arguments in those days, but they were infrequent. I joined PASOTI after the Newell-Hunter spats, but I did see the one-man crusade mounted by Roger Hutchinson against Trigger. There was another incident around that time which went WAY over the line, involving another well known poster and her medical condition at the time. Those with long memories may remember the detail.

But the progress of the club up the leagues meant that the overriding vibe was positive and upbeat, with arguments played out in good spirits. The "organic growth" vs "investment" debates began to see a polarisation and a hardening of some positions, with some being taggged as having "an agenda".

That got much worse during the days of the Consortium and then the freehold purchase. That's when posters began to feel obliged to consider whose "vision" of the club they favoured and it's when it became clear that key players were using proxies to get their message across, rather than use their own identities to do so.

On some occasions, that seemed necessary, given the sensibilities involved and the levels of financial risk for those in the boardroom if things went against them.

But on others, it seemed equally clear that games were afoot and biddable characters were allowing themselves to be a firewall for the principals.

That's when PASOTI began to be a proxy battlefield for competing views and that's when sensible people begn to realise what was going on.

Ade is right to recall that PASOTI was toxic within the walls of Home Park in those days - conversations with senior backroom staff would often be peppered with caustic references to it. You could make a case that was disappointing and dispiriting for PAFC officials to have such a negative view of the club's biggest forum and I would often defend it on that basis, particularly with it's record of making positive contributions on more than a few occasions.

But I could often see their point when I read some of the nastier contributions, mean-spirited personal attacks on the club and it's personnel, often over tiny details that didn't warrant such a level of animus.

Then, in 2009/10, there came a point when Tony Campbell began a process to unify the regional supporters branches into a single "federation". PASOTI was asked if it wanted to join, but after a long thread, it was clear that remaining "outside the tent" was PASOTI's preferred position.

What have we seen since then? Has PASOTI remained independent and an analytical, critical friend, or has it become less so?

Like others, I have seen PASOTI's character change from "poacher to gamekeeper". That's not what it should be about - to be a flag-waving, unquestioning and naive forum, where awkward questions or characters are dismissed or removed.

I have asked awkward questions on more than a few occasions in recent times, since Easter 2012, when it became thunderously apparent that the plotting and general shenanigans being perpetrated online was threatening the chance for genuine democratic fan representation at the club, something that I have been involved in for 15 years, under the old regimes.

Over the period from 2007-11, I'd witnessed more than a few betrayals of the common aim for benefitting the club - from the brutal divorce between the club and the old Supporters Trust and all the wrong turns taken from there onwards, culminating in the final moments when that organisation was encouraged to risk all by throwing in it's equity to "save the club".

I'd seen petty rivalries play out in my Supporter Branch and I'd had enough of all of it. I resigned from everything and resisted all offers of joining new structures - it was definitely time for new blood and new ideas, in my jaded judgment.

I hoped that the re-birth of the club under good leadership with new ideas would be the sort of Resurgam that people like Michael Foot would be proud of.

Instead, the last 12 months have been the shabbiest and most unpleasant time I've ever experienced as an Argyle fan. It's as if we're back in the days of Nixon, Thatcher and Bush - "either you're with us, or you're against us". There appears to be no middle ground, even for people like me who comment in general terms, without targetting an individual in my response.

Those who have been a party to plots, conspiracies and whispering campaigns must now realise that the time for that to stop has long since passed.

Too many people are now wise to the tactics - we're not as stupid as you thought we were. It's got to stop.

I'm pleased to see that there is a spirit of reconciliation in the air - true, there are some who have been terribly bruised and affected by the awful conduct over the last year, but there are signs that a resolution of all these injustices could be found, if everyone makes the right level of adjustment.

I'd counsel all involved to keep this dialogue going. It's got to be better than what has preceded it, hasn't it?

Absolutely John.

The mere fact that Mark is on here being open without getting too much of a kicking gives me some optimism. The issue now is have the people who are right in the middle of much of the crap got the balls to continue the dialogue?

My ban for life i believe from pasoti was for being an exeter city troll( love you tis) this trumped up bollocks came from i believe mr pedlar, pl2 greenman, and the odious nool, now personally speaking i dont want to post on pasoti, not interested in posting on a site that lets the likes of nool pl2greenman webb wosser etc abuse power and still continue controlling the site. also i'm not a fan of or trust brent, were as pasoti is a brent cheerleader fest !ATD is where i will have my say up to now censorship free, mark pedlar seems like a decent guy , unlike nool and his little gang of self promoters. i would love to see the fanbase united but with nool around thats not going to happen.

The main reason this forum exists and has increased in membership and guest viewing figures, is imo, a direct result of the way Pasoti has been dominated by an unelected control group since Pasoti's one and only mod election many years ago..
This has coincided with members of said control group silencing warning voices over trusting in stapes , cosying up to those in position at HP, eventually assisting the present owner acquire the club in return for roles within , and carrying out subversive activities using their untouchable Pasoti powerbase, to further ensure that their vision for the club is unchallenged.
The results of this domination have and continue to be disastrous. The club is now a basket case from top to bottom. Genuine, articulate and intelligent lifelong Argyle fans have been marginalised, scared off from getting involved and many more just plain sickened sufficiently that they rarely ever attend.

A few dissidents wouldn't be silenced and continued to expose those who must be obeyed and now through recent revelations and admissions , the lid is off the box as to what depths these people will plumb to silence and control the online and subsequently the fanbase as a whole. They will in one breath claim ,'It's only the internet' and in the next boast how powerful and influential Pasoti has become.
They can't have it both ways, or can they ?

I now hear commands to 'stop this nonsense now before someone gets hurt'. No contrition. No apology. No willingness to step back and cease attempts to steer popular opinion. No change in the desire to control. Just, 'stop it now and leave us to carry on as we please, without criticism.'

If this does escalate, I for one will know where to look.The open to all flickr account showed the central figure at his obsessive best and no amount of reasoning or negotiating will make a jot of difference to him and his need to dominate. That much must be clear to everyone.The police have been made aware of the potential seriousness of some of the stored data by more than one victim.
He has got his place at HP but needs Pasoti to keep it that way. Pasoti will not be allowed to change.

Hi PP - Indeed Camborne, where the train doesnt stop on a Weds...

Thing is SS68, unless everyone acts with more dignity and forum professionalism then nothing will ever change - a sea change of attitude and acceptance of 'what is done is done' needs to follow with ' a new slate' Oh god...King of Sunday cliches here.. But you get my point Im sure.

Im sure there are loads of ex-posters that have no interest in posting on Pasoti anymore for good reason, equally they are a few ex-posters that could bring some life into a somewhat sterile forum that has the ability to really engage with the issues that matter - I think most people posting on an Argyle related forum actually have a passion for the club and it is this passion that should allow reasoned, articulated and passionate debate. It shouldnt matter if you dont trust James Brent at all - it should only matter how you reason and describe why you dont and provided that is done in a sensible fashion it should trigger a debate that is allowed to stay on the boards, when things desend into chaos, personal abuse and general wallyness is where a line has to be drawn IMHO, not suggesting you have done that or indeed will do that.

I completely understand why you may not like Ian Newell, in terms of his posting, he has done little or anything at all to patch things up, even if that was just taking a little heat out of some of the responses he gives dressed up under the illusion of 'just defending myself' Well other posters seem to defend themselves in a more subtle way so I dont get that. I dont know him, but have had some runs ins with him over the years, I believe Mark P. I dont think Ian Newell is a MOD anymore if thats what you were implying? But of course he still yields some influence by the very nature of what he has done for the club, it would be naive to think otherwise.

Jl's post is a perfect summary - difficult to add anything to that really only that I hope the MODS from Pasoti who will read it, digest and take his comments on board in whatever guise they think fit. What a darn shame that someone like John has taken a back seat from all things Argyle, the one and only time I met him you could tell then what a commited Argyle fan he was and it is trurly sad to read his comments with such an air of resignation about them. I only wish those that decided to have snide digs at him realise that they have done a great dis-service to someone that could have been a great help to Argyle. Sad times indeed.

Mark Pedlar wrote:

Yea Man wrote:

Have the multi accounts that IJN held under the email addressess of ianisnow@sky.com and iannewell@blueyonder.co.uk been deleted now?

What second account did he have?

IJN only has one account on PASOTI. Both email addresses have been linked to different historical editions of "IJN" but he has not had a multi account since he left the mod room earlier this year. We investigated the double email earlier this year and it was linked to a deleted account. There is so much historical stuff on PASOTI that trying to register with someone's email address is often going to come up with "in use". I've tried three different email addresses that i've used over the years and they are blocked too even though i've only used one for a couple of years.

If that's the case then I apologise for banging on about IJN having a current multi account registered over there.

On our databases here as soon as someone deletes their account that email address becomes "available" again.

IJN wields influence because the majority of Pasoti mods are 'his men'. They refused to discipline him and if he decides to return they will support him.
Ponty and Mark told everyone that the mods 'own' Pasoti. We have now been told that David Gadd still owns it. What should we believe ?
Whatever the case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if IJN is still co owner as he has said so himself. Even if the mods do share ownership he wouldn't walk away from the modroom unless he was sure he could walk back in at will.

What ever happens going forward at least two things must happen quickly - Jock must have closure on his questions about certain individuals' behaviour and Peter Jones must come forward and apolgise to the fans.

I think it extremely unlikely that Newell will ever be trusted again by many fans - his online thuggish past has well and truly caught up with him.

I'd also like to see Chris Webb come on to ATD and answer some very awkward but sensible questions.

Tringreen wrote:

IJN wields influence because the majority of Pasoti mods are 'his men'. They refused to discipline him and if he decides to return they will support him.
Ponty and Mark told everyone that the mods 'own' Pasoti. We have now been told that David Gadd still owns it. What should we believe ?
Whatever the case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if IJN is still co owner as he has said so himself. Even if the mods do share ownership he wouldn't walk away from the modroom unless he was sure he could walk back in at will.

I dont get why the ownership of Pasoti is so important, perhaps Im missing something (go easy on the open goal Ive just given)

As I understand it, Dave Gadd set up and owns Pasoti - and all MODS are co-owners in all but name with no legal entitlement to it, IE once they leave Modding duties they cease to be a co-owner, but its always been like that Tring, nothing has changed over the years with regards to how Dave Gadd set that up. Personally speaking I dont believe that any ex-mod still retains any ownership rights but I could be wrong. I think IJN's hand was forced and he had to walk away, it was the right thing to do in any event. I would extremely suprised if Ian was allowed to resume Modding duties - for a start it wouldnt be long before he was outed and it would cause more fuss than I expect the Mods on Pasoti would like, I suspect that with Ian gone from Modding the hope was and is, is that things calm down a bit. Lets hope so eh

Mike Searle wrote:

What ever happens going forward at least two things must happen quickly - Jock must have closure on his questions about certain individuals' behaviour and Peter Jones must come forward and apolgise to the fans.

I think it extremely unlikely that Newell will ever be trusted again by many fans - his online thuggish past has well and truly caught up with him.

I'd also like to see Chris Webb come on to ATD and answer some very awkward but sensible questions.

For absolute sure. I sincerely doubt he will though.

Mike,

Are you suggesting some sort of online Q&A session like the ones that have happened on Pasoti with James Brent etc?

Ade wrote:

Mike,

Are you suggesting some sort of online Q&A session like the ones that have happened on Pasoti with James Brent etc?

I am Ade

Ade wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

IJN wields influence because the majority of Pasoti mods are 'his men'. They refused to discipline him and if he decides to return they will support him.
Ponty and Mark told everyone that the mods 'own' Pasoti. We have now been told that David Gadd still owns it. What should we believe ?
Whatever the case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if IJN is still co owner as he has said so himself. Even if the mods do share ownership he wouldn't walk away from the modroom unless he was sure he could walk back in at will.

I dont get why the ownership of Pasoti is so important, perhaps Im missing something (go easy on the open goal Ive just given)

As I understand it, Dave Gadd set up and owns Pasoti - and all MODS are co-owners in all but name with no legal entitlement to it, IE once they leave Modding duties they cease to be a co-owner, but its always been like that Tring, nothing has changed over the years with regards to how Dave Gadd set that up. Personally speaking I dont believe that any ex-mod still retains any ownership rights but I could be wrong. I think IJN's hand was forced and he had to walk away, it was the right thing to do in any event. I would extremely suprised if Ian was allowed to resume Modding duties - for a start it wouldnt be long before he was outed and it would cause more fuss than I expect the Mods on Pasoti would like, I suspect that with Ian gone from Modding the hope was and is, is that things calm down a bit. Lets hope so eh

Fair enough Ade but I have not been given an answer as to who hires and fires mods. I must assume that it's done my a majority voteof existing mods, hence a self perpetuating control group is able to co-opt and sack those they feel comfortable/uncomfortable with. Maybe the odd rogue like Mark is allowed in but the control group always maintain a majority, hence any disciplinary action against IJN was out voted.
What I was inferring was that IJN could be co-opted back into the modroom at any time by his friends from within.
Watch your back Mark.

Mike Searle wrote:

What ever happens going forward at least two things must happen quickly - Jock must have closure on his questions about certain individuals' behaviour and Peter Jones must come forward and apolgise to the fans.

I think it extremely unlikely that Newell will ever be trusted again by many fans - his online thuggish past has well and truly caught up with him.

I'd also like to see Chris Webb come on to ATD and answer some very awkward but sensible questions.

Good luck with the Pasoti and ATD smoothing of bridges. For those that have been slurred by Newell it has nothing to do with football allegiances and even the inarticulate, uneducated Newell knows that his online thuggish behaviour and slurs towards some City fans cannot be nor will ever be forgiven. Every action is met with an appropriate reaction and even the old fat, bald fella understands that.

Ade wrote:

Hi PP - Indeed Camborne, where the train doesnt stop on a Weds...

Thing is SS68, unless everyone acts with more dignity and forum professionalism then nothing will ever change - a sea change of attitude and acceptance of 'what is done is done' needs to follow with ' a new slate' Oh god...King of Sunday cliches here.. But you get my point Im sure.

Im sure there are loads of ex-posters that have no interest in posting on Pasoti anymore for good reason, equally they are a few ex-posters that could bring some life into a somewhat sterile forum that has the ability to really engage with the issues that matter - I think most people posting on an Argyle related forum actually have a passion for the club and it is this passion that should allow reasoned, articulated and passionate debate. It shouldnt matter if you dont trust James Brent at all - it should only matter how you reason and describe why you dont and provided that is done in a sensible fashion it should trigger a debate that is allowed to stay on the boards, when things desend into chaos, personal abuse and general wallyness is where a line has to be drawn IMHO, not suggesting you have done that or indeed will do that.

I completely understand why you may not like Ian Newell, in terms of his posting, he has done little or anything at all to patch things up, even if that was just taking a little heat out of some of the responses he gives dressed up under the illusion of 'just defending myself' Well other posters seem to defend themselves in a more subtle way so I dont get that. I dont know him, but have had some runs ins with him over the years, I believe Mark P. I dont think Ian Newell is a MOD anymore if thats what you were implying? But of course he still yields some influence by the very nature of what he has done for the club, it would be naive to think otherwise.

Jl's post is a perfect summary - difficult to add anything to that really only that I hope the MODS from Pasoti who will read it, digest and take his comments on board in whatever guise they think fit. What a darn shame that someone like John has taken a back seat from all things Argyle, the one and only time I met him you could tell then what a commited Argyle fan he was and it is trurly sad to read his comments with such an air of resignation about them. I only wish those that decided to have snide digs at him realise that they have done a great dis-service to someone that could have been a great help to Argyle. Sad times indeed.

ade i think mark pedlar i genuine, but there's a long way to go before i could or would want to post on pasoti, the removal of nool and a replacement from the mods of pl2 would go a long way towards making it a decent forum, but i agree with what you say about patching things up, it in all our interests to keep an eye on brent!

The only way to cure Pasoti of the cancerous super-fan culture is the disbandment of forzanerd...Nool and ghoul removed from the club, and all the other self-promoters and super-fans reduced to normal fans, no more tent cliques, no more of the same faces hogging GOS week in week out, Vipers like lee Jameson, Cerbs, and many more removed from the club once and for all

Ha ha ha ! Just had a vision of Basil and the Major in the Germans episode of Farty Owls...............

Following the major's rant about Germans in general,Basil replies, 'Oh I don't know, forgive and forget and all that Major............................. god knows how though !'

punchdrunk wrote:

The only way to cure Pasoti of the cancerous super-fan culture is the disbandment of forzanerd...Nool and ghoul removed from the club, and all the other self-promoters and super-fans reduced to normal fans, no more tent cliques, no more of the same faces hogging GOS week in week out, Vipers like lee Jameson, Cerbs, and many more removed from the club once and for all

Punchy you are like me bey the voice of reason, agree with every word! i think our farm invites have been cancelled though.

Mike Searle wrote:

What ever happens going forward at least two things must happen quickly - Jock must have closure on his questions about certain individuals' behaviour and Peter Jones must come forward and apolgise to the fans.

I think it extremely unlikely that Newell will ever be trusted again by many fans - his online thuggish past has well and truly caught up with him.

I'd also like to see Chris Webb come on to ATD and answer some very awkward but sensible questions.

exactly

Angry of Mayfair wrote:

Mike Searle wrote:

What ever happens going forward at least two things must happen quickly - Jock must have closure on his questions about certain individuals' behaviour and Peter Jones must come forward and apolgise to the fans.

I think it extremely unlikely that Newell will ever be trusted again by many fans - his online thuggish past has well and truly caught up with him.

I'd also like to see Chris Webb come on to ATD and answer some very awkward but sensible questions.

exactly

No I would not I would not believe a word of his. once a liar always a liar. They are only fighting to save their own necks

Ade wrote:

Its good to see that Mark Pedlar has taken the initiative in an attempt to start the healing process, I for one hope he succeeds and its clear that he is enaging in a sensible and adult dialogue, I hope everyone else follows suit.

FWIW, I think they are a large number of issues that cross over from different times and that is going to be the problem, for example GJ's grievances are recent and more serious and hurtful than say Tring who's only real motive is to get back on Pasoti and start posting again.

Sorting the wheat from the chaff (if it does happen) is going to be very difficult, I dont think its fair that 'one size fits all' due to some of the historic problems and issues Pasoti had with some ADT posters as those reasons may remain valid (I have no idea of any details - but you get the drift of the point) so although allowing some back on Pasoti would be good - I doubt it will be extended to everyone which although may be fair and right for reasons none of us are privy too, there will be a continued divide amongst the poster base on here, I think it needs to be accepted that you cant just import an entire database of users and that some decisions will need to take place that may not suit everyone on here, but thats fair enough, we are in a world of choice, no-one has a divine right to be a member of a message board no matter how loud they shout.

Surely, whilst IJN is maintaining his inflammatory and confrontational high profile online presence it is going to be extremely difficult for any poster here - to post on Pasoti whithout feeling angry that they they share 'the same room' as him and my guess is that instead of feelings calming down, they will be magnified to some degree and it could make matters worse, so I guess Im saying that IJN would also need to agree to some 'watering down' of his style as well.

That said, I cant see him agreeing to exercise that degree of humility, that is not a personal dig or an insult, I would certainly say that to this face.

Gob you may remember that around 6 or 7 years ago we used to engage him in debate and it was evident then of the sort of style he deploys, the Roger Hutchinson affair on Pasoti for anyone that remembers is a good example and the heat has been cranked up considerably since then.

But what I dont get from all sides (GJ aside as he has certainly got some unfinished business and questions) is how everyone can be so damn nasty to people they dont even know, which brings me onto Ian (PL2).

I dont know anything about this Greeman account apart from what I have read on here and Pasoti (havent posted on either site for over a year), but what I do know is that everyone has their breaking point, its clear for good reason on both sides. What I do know for a fact is that Ian is a good man, without going to personal details on a public site - he was a immense support to me some years ago on several different occassions and take it from me he is a geniune fella

Of course that doesnt excuse the Greeman account, but I trurly believe that Ian would not have posted anything of a violent or threatening nature, he is simply not like that as a person - and anything that wants to disgree then fine but you will need to tell me how you know him as a person for me to take you seriously, if you are going to purely base an opinion on an 'online person' then it will hardly be a valid or reliable point.

He has shown the type of person he is by 'coming out' last week - what a shame that his stance hasnt been followed up and supported by others and I think this will obviously rumble on until others hold their hands up, clearly unfair that Ian should take the whole blame when I trurly believe that he was not involved in the nasty stuff that GJ has endured.

Pasoti in general went far to far the other way in recent years, I think Mark P has mentioned this. Some years before Chris Webb et al (just using this as a time line not suggesting anything else) joined Pasoti it was a vibrant, lively place full of good intelligent contributing posters, I used to cross swords daily with posters like Mike Sainsbury but never abusive or insulting.

The same could be said for 100 page threads that were not needed to be moderated heavily because although it was hard and passionate debate (Kevin Ball springs to mind remember Gob?) it was never nasty or personal and if the kettle did boil too much, apologises were PM'd and we continued the next day! Now what do we have on Pasoti? Nothing of the 'old Pasoti' where some really great debates took place, posters (bless her) like Bex would argue her corner and the next week we were rattling buckets around HP together for PASDA laughing about it all.

There is no doubt in mind that both sites look to look at themselves and decide how and want they want and how they see the future before the whole lot implodes

Yes I remember those days Ade and of course, your good self. Kev Ball signed up to AT some time ago, I know he was not to well but I have not heard from him since?

I completely agree Ade, if there is to be some sort of unification then it must be done slowly and over a period of time but it can start by being decent to each other.

I have not used Posty's "nickname" since he admitted his involvement and owing to the attempted perestroika efforts I will choose my words carefully and as factually as I can remember.

Posty joined ATD following a long period of falls outs with Newell on Pasoti. He was warmly welcomed to ATD by the users that at that time were small in number and both Tring and me who were owners and moderators of ATD shared several pm's with Posty.

I cannot speak for Tring but I think he would agree when I say that Posty's comments were extremely condemning of Newell's behaviour and he was keen for ATD to have an impact. It was also at the time when Posty was determined in his interest to see Bullivant gain control of the club.

After a short while Tring and me discussed offering Posty a position as a moderator, this was long before the election process has been considered and during the very early days of ATD when mods were co-opted on. Posty declined our invitation as he was busy with "other stuff" at that time and I think had had enough of the antics of Newell.

Very soon after, Posty deleted his ATD account and immediately appeared as a moderator on Pasoti and also dropped his interest in Bullivant and backed Brent for the takeover.

In his early days of returning as a Pasoti moderator I distinctly remember Posty commenting that he didn't have an issue or problem with any ATD user. However his attitude towards ATD swiftly changed and before long insulting comments was being directed at users of ATD, both directly and indirectly as well as general slurring and I remember the choice of words in one of the Club programmes that Posty was happy to promote.

I would suggest that Posty gained his reputation as someone with a very flexible opinion as it appeared to most that Posty had been prepared to drop his support for a potential club buyer, cast slurs against ATD and its users, support Brent in his takeover of PAFC and change his opinion of Newell and, it appeared that he done this for the cost of a pasoti position and perks.

I would also add that Posty did not gain his nickname until quite recently and long after Posty had made some pretty unwarranted attacks directed at the users of ATD.

I am 100% sure that Posty is a decent enough bloke, most of us are that use these forums. I am also sure that most of those involved on both sides of this bitter fence are decent enough people.
My belief is that one person is responsible for this mess and he has dragged in others that now regret the decisions that they have made, for those people an apology should suffice.

The users of ATD have not only had to put up with name calling, it has gone far, far deeper than that.

I respect Posty for coming clean and as far as I am concerned it's done and dusted with Posty, others involved now need to grow a pair as Posty has and do the same. Until they do this will drag on and it will be their responsibility for preventing a united supporter’s front.

On my part I will admit to name calling, nothing more. I have not used Pasoti since the day that I had a ban, I have not closed Pasoti or infiltrated it in any way, I have not spammed pasoti, I have not created any false accounts on pasoti, I have not spammed the pasoti moderators, I have not threatened pasoti moderators with legal action, I have not threatened any person with a pasoti involvement with violence etc. and to the best of my knowledge neither has any other ATD user. - Unfortunately the same cannot be said for a few Pasoti users and Pasoti moderators and that needs to be rectified by way of an apology ASAP for Argyle fans to unite behind one cause.

Argyle fans should be united, not divided and no decent, self-respecting person or Argyle fan should promote such division and if he did, and if he was in an official position, he should resign immediately.

If Bex was here now, what would she be saying?

Webb has been, gone, come back, gone again, come back again, and gone again from here too many times to be taken seriously. There is too much water under the bridge.

Basically, if you lick his balls, he'll stick around and stroke your hair patronisingly. If you don't, he'll run away and get some Forza Nerde disciple to give him a handjob anyway. Apart from him resigning from his now surely untenable position and being forgotten about, I don't want to hear from him. To be perfectly honest, I don't want to hear the reasoning or limp excuses behind his actions...I don't want to hear anything other than "Sorry for being a corrupt, disgusting tool, I resign."

The issues with PASOTI depend entirely with the old guard, Angry_S and PL2Face the most notable, moderating the forum fairly instead of as their mate's propaganda tool. I don't really mind if they do or don't, I don't see why the forums should necessarily get on with each other even if they do. From my point of view I can't be bothered to waste my energy worrying too much about it. If they want to be open and civil, then that'd save themselves hassle in the long run - it is up to them to do that though.

Thanks to Mark for his response.

My attitude is to remove all superfans from the inner workings of the club and get some people in to run it proffesionally. Wasn't Brent supposed to looking for a chairman?

It was me who came up with the PL2 Faced name for Postey, after he, and I believe Mark Pedlar repeated it, claimed that I was a known racist, and someone bumped a thread where Postey was commenting on here about a former Trust leader rolling over and supporting Brent too easily and possibly suggesting that there might be some reward for doing so.

It just seemed a complete reversal of his views now. Not being a forum poster back then, apart from the trouble-free Not 606, I wasn't aware of Postey's change of opinion until I saw that.

I also found it strange that he could call me a known racist when there was somebody posting prominently on Pasoti who had received a football ban for a racist offence that Postey would know about.

I think that the one thing to come out of this so far is that pasoti is trying to get its house in order but they have a hell of a long way to go.