Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Amsterdamage wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

That was pretty much where I came in.

You have reached the right conclusion.

In the battle of the have and have nots I didn't doubt where you'd be Franny. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in this just points of view taken from differing directions. You'll be gutted when you're outvoted by the wronguns.

I think it'll be a desperately sad day if we vote to Leave.

If we do go I hope all the promises about how wonderful things will be on the other side turn out to be true. "Hope", that is, not "expect" and I hope I am wrong.

I also hope that the divisions caused by all of this can be healed which ever way it goes but, again, I'm not hopeful.

And I hope that when every last immigrant is denied entry to this country that the Utopia you seem to think will inevitably follow actually does but again I am not hopeful.

Instead I am reminded of Pastor Niermoller's famous poem. Some of the problems that have been endlessly debated are real enough, that's for sure, I just don't think exiting EU will do anything to address them and once we have "dealt with" the immigrants and it has made no difference it'll be the same logic that compels us to move on to the next batch of scapegoats - and it won't make any difference there either.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

I've changed my mind and will now vote to remain in the EU. A very tough decision to make but on balance the future for the young will i feel be better served in Europe, plus the fact that Farage and Johnson are a couple of Cocks.

That was pretty much where I came in.

You have reached the right conclusion.

In the battle of the have and have nots I didn't doubt where you'd be Franny. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in this just points of view taken from differing directions. You'll be gutted when you're outvoted by the wronguns.

I think it'll be a desperately sad day if we vote to Leave.

If we do go I hope all the promises about how wonderful things will be on the other side turn out to be true. "Hope", that is, not "expect" and I hope I am wrong.

I also hope that the divisions caused by all of this can be healed which ever way it goes but, again, I'm not hopeful.

And I hope that when every last immigrant is denied entry to this country that the Utopia you seem to think will inevitably follow actually does but again I am not hopeful.

Instead I am reminded of Pastor Niermoller's famous poem. Some of the problems that have been endlessly debated are real enough, that's for sure, I just don't think exiting EU will do anything to address them and once we have "dealt with" the immigrants and it has made no difference it'll be the same logic that compels us to move on to the next batch of scapegoats - and it won't make any difference there either.

This has happened before in history.

Remain = We know what it is like. Let's try to make it better.

Brexit = We haven't got a clue how it will turn out. We hope it gets better.

My main gripe with Brexit is that there are no plans/future strategy being put forward. It's all pie in the sky. Is life really that bad in the EU?

All this referendum has become is an egoistic battle between both sides for political power and control.

Can all you Brexiters honestly say that things will get better?

You are all willing to risk the future of the UK based on what?

The main issue in this referendum is migration (every debate I've seen has constantly mentioned it - irrespective of the question asked). In realityit concerns any influx those with a different "ideology" (though people seem too scared to say it). The UK government can do something about that and will have a lot of backing from other EU member states!

All you Brexiters put your trust in people like Johnson and Farage and listen to people like Le Penn and Trump????

I do believe that the EU is massively corrupt and must be reformed, but then so is Westminster.
I think we will be better off in, but there is not much in it.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

All you Brexiters put your trust in people like Johnson and Farage and listen to people like Le Penn and Trump????

In the same way that you love Cammy and Ozzy you Turkey. (geddit?) As for Franny with his perfect world and utopia don't make me larf and where have we even said that? What we've said is that we will manage happily in or out and it's big business that's more worried than people in the street. When the whole Euro experiment come crashing to an end you'll thank us for having enough sense to see it comeing. As for your utopian inter racial dream world where the population increases steadily making the need for more houses, schools, hospitals, police and roads go and have a look at a map then start looking at population densities. Go to Hong Kong and get a feel for it cos that's what our green and pleasant land will become.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

All you Brexiters put your trust in people like Johnson and Farage and listen to people like Le Penn and Trump????

In the same way that you love Cammy and Ozzy you Turkey. (geddit?) As for Franny with his perfect world and utopia don't make me larf and where have we even said that? What we've said is that we will manage happily in or out and it's big business that's more worried than people in the street. When the whole Euro experiment come crashing to an end you'll thank us for having enough sense to see it comeing. As for your utopian inter racial dream world where the population increases steadily making the need for more houses, schools, hospitals, police and roads go and have a look at a map then start looking at population densities. Go to Hong Kong and get a feel for it cos that's what our green and pleasant land will become.

Have a look at the demographics. Then you will see why the population (with migrants) has to increase (unless of course you wish to retire at 80 or bring in compulsory euthanasia at 80!).

I don't trust "Cammy" or "Ozzy" either but if it's a straight choice between them and "BJ" and "Nigey" then it's a no brainer (no I don't get the Turkey reference).

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

All you Brexiters put your trust in people like Johnson and Farage and listen to people like Le Penn and Trump????

In the same way that you love Cammy and Ozzy you Turkey. (geddit?) As for Franny with his perfect world and utopia don't make me larf and where have we even said that? What we've said is that we will manage happily in or out and it's big business that's more worried than people in the street. When the whole Euro experiment come crashing to an end you'll thank us for having enough sense to see it comeing. As for your utopian inter racial dream world where the population increases steadily making the need for more houses, schools, hospitals, police and roads go and have a look at a map then start looking at population densities. Go to Hong Kong and get a feel for it cos that's what our green and pleasant land will become.

Have a look at the demographics. Then you will see why the population (with migrants) has to increase (unless of course you wish to retire at 80 or bring in compulsory euthanasia at 80!).

I don't trust "Cammy" or "Ozzy" either but if it's a straight choice between them and "BJ" and "Nigey" then it's a no brainer (no I don't get the Turkey reference).

Let's make this simple for you, we go into business breeding chickens, you have a shed that is 10m x 5m and you can keep 1 chicken per square metre so 50 chickens. Once the shed is full up you need more sheds. It doesn't matter how much more money extra chickens will make you if you cram them into the original shed it will get overcrowded, the chickens will get ill and production will go down.
As for euthanasia I don't get that at all, what we need to do and on a global scale is cut population growth and do it fast. The south west is already getting spoilt and with thousands more homes being built the infrastructure is groaning and that's just with our population not bringing in extra millions from Europe over the next few decades. Advocating population growth to pay pensions for old people is just crazy. Crazy, mental. Feckin mentally crazy.
It's lucky that the world isn't just inhabited by "clever " people, people too clever to do manual work, if it was we wouldn't have lasted this long, listen to the practical people, the people who actually build houses, grow food and solve problems about how everyone will live and feed themselves, it's not easy getting solutions and it's getting harder.
Anyway what are the Romanians and Hungarians going to do with their old people when they are comeing to live and work over here? Selfish feckers you remainers.

So, the answer is put the chicken farmers in charge ? Ok then, they'll sort it
By the way, there's no such thing as "we" on the global scale. Can't wait for the eugenics answer to global population growth.

Lord Biro wrote:

So, the answer is put the chicken farmers in charge ? Ok then, they'll sort it
By the way, there's no such thing as "we" on the global scale. Can't wait for the eugenics answer to global population growth.

Ed yoo cay shun my old fruit. More young people to look after more old people is capilist expansion bollocks at the expense of the planet and you of all people should realise that shorely? Where is that going to end?
In answering please keep to the point and don't try and avoid the actual problem of population growth being unsustainable.

We're going to over graze, until it's all gone. That's what all species do.
The only thing that seems to reduce population is wealth. Best spread the wealth around a bit then. That's going to take a lot of dosh. Protectionism will just result in a re run of history.

Amsterdamage wrote:

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

All you Brexiters put your trust in people like Johnson and Farage and listen to people like Le Penn and Trump????

In the same way that you love Cammy and Ozzy you Turkey. (geddit?) As for Franny with his perfect world and utopia don't make me larf and where have we even said that? What we've said is that we will manage happily in or out and it's big business that's more worried than people in the street. When the whole Euro experiment come crashing to an end you'll thank us for having enough sense to see it comeing. As for your utopian inter racial dream world where the population increases steadily making the need for more houses, schools, hospitals, police and roads go and have a look at a map then start looking at population densities. Go to Hong Kong and get a feel for it cos that's what our green and pleasant land will become.

You don't half spout some cack.

You would have to be incredibly naive or a complete feckin numbskull not to have noticed the long anti-immigration campaign waged by sections of our press. Just type "Mail Express Immigration" into Google and choose imagesand see what pops up.

I'll tell you what... I'll save you the bother. This is what pops up.

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It doesn't matter whether you watch Question Time or listen to Any Questions or dip into any of the political broadcasts all you ever hear discussed is the "one topic we are not allowed to talk about - immigration".

It has been going on for years but is now so blatant I'm quite shocked that anybody could deny it.

It doesn't matter what the topic is - the stock response is always a variant of the same thing.

"I can't get a job." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"I'm taxed too much." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"I can't afford to buy a house." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"Interest rates are too high" "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"Interest rates are too low." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"Our education system seems to be imperfect in some way." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"The NHS is failing." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"I can't get to see a dentist." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"The roads are a bit busy." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"I can't get a seat on a train." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"There isn't even a train at all." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

"My tea has gone a bit cold." "That's because there's too many immigrants."

Except that immigration is almost never the problem. The problem is under-resourcing and it has been going on ever since the Privatisation boom took hold. "The market will provide" is the manrtra except the market does not. It isn't designed to work that way. It will never meet demand because if it does it is inefficient and we can't have that can we?

Virtually every single topic always always always comes back to immigration. Farage to name one, but not the only one, can't utter 10 words without spouting off about immigration "the one thing we are not allowed to mention"...

That's it. It's the be all and end all of everything. So it seems.

But it isn't.

And eventually if we leave EU it will become crystal clear that it never was the root cause.

I can think of no justification for it. Not for any of it. You constantly assure me that racism is not a factor here but it is the only justification, if justification is the right word, that I can come up with for people who just can't see beyond "that's because there's too many immigrants" as a catch all for everything.

Still... like I said I hope you are right and I am wrong because if you win and you aren't right you'll have made an irreversible cnut of everything for no good reason at all.

Suck on this one

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Les Miserable wrote:

Suck on this one

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James Dyson?

The man who shut down his British factory and opened a new one in Malaysia?

He wants to leave the EU so that he can avoid having to pay minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, matermity pay, a pension and health and safety legislation.

That James Dyson?

Thank you for providing such a perfect example for why Remain is such a good idea and Leave such a bad one because if ever there was a better example of what the EU has done for us and what leaving will do for workers all over the country I can't think of it.

Boris wants Turkey in the EU???? Surely not!!!!


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Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Suck on this one

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James Dyson?

The man who shut down his British factory and opened a new one in Malaysia?

He wants to leave the EU so that he can avoid having to pay minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, matermity pay, a pension and health and safety legislation.

That James Dyson?

Thank you for providing such a perfect example for why Remain is such a good idea and Leave such a bad one because if ever there was a better example of what the EU has done for us and what leaving will do for workers all over the country I can't think of it.

I'd be very surprised if they have all those things in Malaysia

Sir James Dyson, ultra successful genius...

Sir Frank Drake, blowhard...

Who to believe?

Dysons. Under powered, overrated, over priced and over here.
He doesn't charge for bags, he just asks for the bag money in a once only up front extortionate  payment..... a sort of licence to fly. I can't think of a worse "mill owner". Well I can actually, Chris Dawson. What a card he is. Employer of the year, with an enlightened outlook on life worthy of at least a gong 
Obviously the term genius needs re calibrating.

Les Miserable wrote:

Suck on this one

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It highlighted that in 2000 Sir James had said Britain would be "suicidal" not to join the single currency and that in 2014 he had called for the free movement of people within the EU to be retained.

Les Miserable wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Suck on this one

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

James Dyson?

The man who shut down his British factory and opened a new one in Malaysia?

He wants to leave the EU so that he can avoid having to pay minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, matermity pay, a pension and health and safety legislation.

That James Dyson?

Thank you for providing such a perfect example for why Remain is such a good idea and Leave such a bad one because if ever there was a better example of what the EU has done for us and what leaving will do for workers all over the country I can't think of it.

I'd be very surprised if they have all those things in Malaysia

Me too.

I thought I'd made the point explicitly enough for anybody to understand.

But clearly not.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Les Miserable wrote:

Suck on this one

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It highlighted that in 2000 Sir James had said Britain would be "suicidal" not to join the single currency and that in 2014 he had called for the free movement of people within the EU to be retained.

Obviously our genius  knight of the dinning table was a slow starter. Sort of cobbles it together as he goes along., just like his machines. I dread to think how clever he'll be by the time he passes on  


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Dyson's best and more powerful models banned in the EU...in favour of German models of course.

The EU is all about Germany being in control and turning the EU into a Federal state....it's all about politics now....the free trade community of the early years have long gone....and the failing economies of member states now depend on Germany to bail them out....Hitler failed but Merkel is succeeding.

It's only the unenlightened, pig headedly entrenched that are never prepared to change their minds...

The Miserables are proud, long standing owners of the magnificent dyson vacuum cleaner and I swear by the dyson blade whilst pissing in public.

Are Dyson's hoovers (other vacuum cleaners are available) banned? I have no idea but if they are then it will be because he doesn't pay a minimum wage, sick pay, holiday pay, matermity pay, a pension or pay heed to health and safety legislation.

All that pesky EU red tape that protects workers from exploitation in the workplace.

Dyson represents a race to the bottom for workers if ever anybody did; he's a key mover in the on-going Bangladeshification of the UK.

They don't make anything in this country so I suppose that is moot.

Exactly, he's spreading the wealth(Frankie loves this ) to parts of the World where people are desperate for employment and a decent(by their standards) wage. Philanthropy in action.