Brexit - Leave or Remain poll

Lord Tisdale wrote:

I heard some stupid woman on the radio today saying EU countries would no longer supply us with info on suspected terrorists, what utter sh1t, does the mad cow think that currently the EU countries do not share terrorist info with the US, Australia, the African countries, India, South America or the rest of the world which does not pay £11 billion a year for a membership card to the EUSSR?.

Hey, the Belgians couldn't even shout over the border to the French to warn them of the gun running for the Paris horror massacres.
You make it up as you go along.

I can't wait to leave the EU. Under the Westminster marvels, I reckon every obese Brit will slim down to a good old fashioned British BMI just like we had during the war. Putting the great back in little Britain. We'ez going places.

So has anyone had their mind changed (or made up), because of the discussions on this thread?

Yep, Sir Francis has persuaded me I should vote for leave.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So has anyone had their mind changed (or made up), because of the discussions on this thread?

I started at 55% out, 45% in.

After imbibing what the oracle (Francis) has had to say,

I'm now at 60% out, 40% in.

.....naughty boys!

AstiSpumante wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So has anyone had their mind changed (or made up), because of the discussions on this thread?

I started at 55% out, 45% in.

After imbibing what the oracle (Francis) has had to say,

I'm now at 60% out, 40% in.

Nope still 100% out if not even more thanks to the shit franny has come out with!

You've had all the shit coming you're way for a long time Franny, it's well deserved ever since you simplified the argument into wanting out =racist more lazy stereotyping shite.
Fwiw I asked my 20 year old trainee manager son which way he'd go, deffo out, he added that all the managers at work and his group of friends were about 80/20 for out also.

I haven't said "out = racist" either.

What is the matter with people around here?

Oh come on now, you don't have to be racist to support UKIP but it helps? I get that the immigration aspect is important to you but you can't get that other people are pissed off with a lot of other aspects about Europe, I still personally think you've bought it on yourself.

Sir Frank was a silly billy. Lord Tisdale was worse. So, given I don't give a monkeys which way it goes, I tribally side with those who aren't xenophobic, so that will be Frank, minus his euthanasia ( you've got broad shoulders Frank  ).
However, I won't be voting as many of our caste don't get a vote for many reasons. I'm not one of Frank's simplistic, and frankly wrong, golden bunced up generation. Half of those old folk referred to are poor.
Moist's contribution was very helpful, given his experience and life. Europe plainly is broken in places. But so is the UK. It's a Western democracy problem that needs sorting. The wrong people have too much power.
Whatever happens, the fracturing and polarising of the West will continue regardless of any referendum, and war will surely be following. Up for grabs who will be on what side.

Not the same thing though, is it?

All men are human. Not all humans are men. I think that's as simply as I can put it.

If you were a racist then who else would you vote for?

AstiSpumante wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

So has anyone had their mind changed (or made up), because of the discussions on this thread?

I started at 55% out, 45% in.

After imbibing what the oracle (Francis) has had to say,

I'm now at 60% out, 40% in.

It's like when you have (for example) a Spurs fan at work who does your head in with their inane bollocks constantly. You've never really had anything against Spurs, but the never ending 'Spurs Spurs Spurs!' fanfaring from your workmate actually drives you to dislike his team with a passion.

And there's no fanfaring for "out" from anybody?

Are we only allowed one side of a discussion here these days?

Lord Biro wrote:

Europe plainly is broken in places.

And allowing a few million third worlders in will only make things a lot worse, if not terminal for our way of life, so out for me from an immigration perspective & the prospect of Turkey joining the party.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

And there's no fanfaring for "out" from anybody?

Are we only allowed one side of a discussion here these days?

Not at all but the question does contain a certain amount of irony given the "shut the feck up" comment.

That's the disappointment about the debate. It's all about immigration. For the last time, in or out, immigration is going to carry on apace here, whether you like it or not. It's how the unethical globalised capitalism works.
I've been complaining for decades about the amount of outside capital migrating into the country, skewing the value of resources that we all have to buy, housing in particular, putting them beyond the reach of many of us.
But not a dicky from your perspective, until it's actually migrant labour skewing the market by tuppence. Hey, there were poverty wages in Victorian England, and there was no immigrant labour to blame that one on then. Get real.

Fair comment. I could have eased off a little there and perhaps phrased it better. Then again none of that post was directed at any individual more the collective effect that that whole bunch of individuals (the baby boomers) has had and is having and will continue to have once it is long gone. Nor am I critical of any of the choices any of those individuals might have made along the way. Given the same circumstances I suspect that most, including me, would have made similar choices. That happens to get straight to the heart of the matter: today's youth will be denied similar circumstances by the actions of those who have preceded them.

There is a huge irony in a vote that says "out" winning after being carried by a generation that will not have to live with the consequences. They have no skin in this game.

Compare and contrast to today's 16 and 17 year olds, allowed a vote in the recent Scottish referendum let's not forget, who will have no say and will have to live with the consequences.

I'm calling that as paradoxical, hypocritical and unfair.

I was replying to Skinny. Not sure who Lord B was talking to.

Lord Biro wrote:

there were poverty wages in Victorian England, and there was no immigrant labour to blame that one on then. Get real.

Uh duh, you missed the whole Irish thing then?

Immigration is a great Brexit issue both with Tory and Old Labour, especially when exacerbated by the swarms of rapefugees, TTIP will pull in a fair few lefties, the lack of any quantifiable, real, economic drawbacks and the whole waste of money, sovereignty thing, the fact that older people vote and the admission of Pig Porking Dave that change was needed only for him to return with an empty begging bowl could easily be enough to sway things.

Looking forward to the first post BoJo polls.

Dunno about the polls but sterling gas gone through the floor.

The immigrration thing is almost the same as the UKIP thing. Not all people anti-immigration will be racist but all racists will be anti-immigration.

And while I am here which immigrant is it we are supposed to dislike?

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I'm glad we're all the straight abuse thing as well you screaming liberal wanker. Go to church if you want to preach.

"Liberal" indeed.

Add that to marxist and fascist.

And has this become abuse central all of a sudden?

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

there were poverty wages in Victorian England, and there was no immigrant labour to blame that one on then. Get real.

Uh duh, you missed the whole Irish thing then?.

As usual with you, the Irish thing is not very far beneath the surface. So, who doesn't qualify as an immigrant in your sad world ? I assume Scottish folk are stealing good English jobs too. Maybe the Cornish too, you know, the 6 fingered ones you refer to.  If it wasn't for all these immigrants, the fair minded employers would be paying shed loads. Yeah ok.
I'm all for a debate on the EU and the UK, as I don't care which way it swings. But I don't have truck with your thinly disguised racist stuff, and never have on here. I won't be bothering with you again. You're an oaf.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I would say, going by previous posts, that for SFD the following beliefs would apply.

Education to be egalitarian, our history to be denied and rewritten, atheism, abolition of frontiers and borders, open immigration, preference to understanding of crime rather than punishment, social and cultural revolution.

That's a Marxist in my book.

You have since denied the "rewrite history" bit. But not the others.

Since when has being called Marxist an insult. It's not meant as an insult and you're acting a bit precious.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I would say, going by previous posts, that for SFD the following beliefs would apply.

Education to be egalitarian, our history to be denied and rewritten, atheism, abolition of frontiers and borders, open immigration, preference to understanding of crime rather than punishment, social and cultural revolution.

That's a Marxist in my book.

You have since denied the "rewrite history" bit. But not the others.

Since when has being called Marxist an insult. It's not meant as an insult and you're acting a bit precious.

Probably since the 1950s. Reds under the bed here and many many insults and worse under McCarthyism over there.
It has since become a term of ridicule. Where have you been this last 50 years ?