Plymouth Argyle v Morecambe Matchday Thread

Proper excellent stuff from us yesterday against what was supposed to be tricky opposition (Freathy had 'em down for a surefire win anyway...). Dominant from start to finish; 2 great goals; another clean sheet (I don't think Luke had a shot to stop at all). What's not to like?

Quite simply: WE'RE GOING UP AS feckin CHAMPIONS!!

Then what ?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Proper excellent stuff from us yesterday against what was supposed to be tricky opposition (Freathy had 'em down for a surefire win anyway...). Dominant from start to finish; 2 great goals; another clean sheet (I don't think Luke had a shot to stop at all). What's not to like?

Quite simply: WE'RE GOING UP AS feckin CHAMPIONS!!

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Morecambe boss Jim Bentley said we switched off at key moments but apart from that there wasn't too much between the teams in the first half. We didn't get that final pass and when we did we didn't have that lucky break. They had three opportunities in the first half and they scored from two of them. We huffed and puffed in the second half but we weren't able to take our opportunities

Away from home, we have been excellent and on an overnight stay, when we have set off on a Friday, we have not been beaten away from home in a year. That is an unbelievable statistic at any level. We worked on things with regards to the strengths in their side. We knew it was going to be a difficult game against top of the league, a team that are playing with confidenc
When you work on stopping Carey picking the ball up and getting the ball on his left foot, we didn't get it right. It was too easy for him to drop a shoulder, get it on the left foot and stick it in

Greenskin wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Proper excellent stuff from us yesterday against what was supposed to be tricky opposition (Freathy had 'em down for a surefire win anyway...). Dominant from start to finish; 2 great goals; another clean sheet (I don't think Luke had a shot to stop at all). What's not to like?

Quite simply: WE'RE GOING UP AS feckin CHAMPIONS!!

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That's a bloody awful song.

Anyway we'll have won the division by then!

Tringreen wrote:

Then what ?

Sell everything and come back down, lower than ever, I am afraid.

Usual losing nonsense from the Morecambe manager. "We knew how to stop them ( mainly Carey ), but just didn't get it right.
Classic Ron Manager stuff.
You learn nothing if you think you know it all.
A good old fashioned "They were too good for us" wouldn't go amiss now and again.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Proper excellent stuff from us yesterday against what was supposed to be tricky opposition (Freathy had 'em down for a surefire win anyway...). Dominant from start to finish; 2 great goals; another clean sheet (I don't think Luke had a shot to stop at all). What's not to like?

Quite simply: WE'RE GOING UP AS feckin CHAMPIONS!!

Freathy is well known for getting his predictions right.

Argyle have won 11 league games, and Freathy backed Argyle to lose about 85% of them (and draw the other 15%).

pepsipete wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Then what ?

Sell everything and come back down, lower than ever,  I am afraid.

I still don't think we're actually going up. Any other team in our position, winning games like us I'd say nailed on promotion. But we're not a normal club. We have an owner who will think nothing of selling our best players at a crucial time -we are certain to lose at least Reid and Carey in January and we also have too many loan players due to be returned to their clubs. Top 3 will be Portsmouth, Oxford and money bags Accrington.

BRENT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ejh wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Proper excellent stuff from us yesterday against what was supposed to be tricky opposition (Freathy had 'em down for a surefire win anyway...). Dominant from start to finish; 2 great goals; another clean sheet (I don't think Luke had a shot to stop at all). What's not to like?

Quite simply: WE'RE GOING UP AS feckin CHAMPIONS!!

Freathy is well known for getting his predictions right.

Argyle have won 11 league games, and Freathy backed Argyle to lose about 85% of them (and draw the other 15%).

Wait until after January.

Freathy wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Then what ?

Sell everything and come back down, lower than ever,  I am afraid.

I still don't think we're actually going up.  Any other team in our position, winning games like us I'd say nailed on promotion. But we're not a normal club.  We have an owner who will think nothing of selling our best players at a crucial time -we are certain to lose at least Reid and Carey in January and we also have too many loan players due to be returned to their clubs.  Top 3 will be Portsmouth, Oxford and money bags Accrington.

BRENT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that were to happen, then surely that would be the signal to those folks who think Brent is a star really see him in his true light.

Freathy wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Then what ?

Sell everything and come back down, lower than ever,  I am afraid.

I still don't think we're actually going up.  Any other team in our position, winning games like us I'd say nailed on promotion. But we're not a normal club.  We have an owner who will think nothing of selling our best players at a crucial time -we are certain to lose at least Reid and Carey in January and we also have too many loan players due to be returned to their clubs.  Top 3 will be Portsmouth, Oxford and money bags Accrington.

BRENT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've sold one player for money in 4 years FCOL.

Any club can have any of our players for NOTHING in the summer. Their transfer value, I'm afraid to say, ain't high at all.

Maybe not but 250k will be enough for them to be sold.

ejh wrote:

We've sold one player for money in 4 years FCOL.

That's because no one wanted them. For all the Aviva hype, someone like Nelson for example commands little interest elsewhere. Fans here have got too used to pretty mundane players.
Hourihane was the best of a bad bunch, and he can't hold a candle to Carey. With Carey, we're talking hot property including CCC level, and maybe more. Probably hasn't got, say, Charlie Adam quality, but he'll be in demand, that's for sure. Similar in demand abilities to Norris at his best when he left, yet in the little I've seen, a far better footballer.
Carey is the first real footballer, with a good 7 or 8 years in him, that has landed here in donkeys. We've still got a huge amount to pay off the previous owners yet, so there is bound to be an issue with a new contract negotiation. I will be looking for the first sign of real problems between Brent and Adams around the turn of the year. Adams will know Carey is crucial to his plans when Argyle go up a division, which they will.

And one other thing, maybe Carey and Adams as a double act might appeal to a few bigger clubs willing to spend on contracts Brent is not prepared to pay. Sooner or later, we will come up against the reality of the Brent factor. He's not the investing type, he's a frugal speculator, through and through. And not much speculation either. he just settles for the safest of bets and small % returns. He is in effect a Curtis Nelson of the financial world. Strictly 4th division. He is what he looks like. Bad ears too.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

ejh wrote:

We've sold one player for money in 4 years FCOL.

That's because no one wanted them. For all the Aviva hype, someone like Nelson for example commands little interest elsewhere. Fans here have got too used to pretty mundane players.
Hourihane was the best of a bad bunch, and he can't hold a candle to Carey. With Carey, we're talking hot property including CCC level, and maybe more. Probably hasn't got, say, Charlie Adam quality, but he'll be in demand, that's for sure. Similar in demand abilities to Norris at his best when he left, yet in the little I've seen, a far better footballer.
Carey is the first real footballer, with a good 7 or 8 years in him, that has landed here in donkeys. We've still got a huge amount to pay off the previous owners yet, so there is bound to be an issue with a new contract negotiation. I will be looking for the first sign of real problems between Brent and Adams around the turn of the year. Adams will know Carey is crucial to his plans when Argyle go up a division, which they will..
And one other thing, maybe Carey and Adams as a double act might appeal to a few big clubs willing to spend on contracts Brent is not prepared to pay. Sooner or later, we will come up against the reality of the Brent factor. He's not the investing type, he's a frugal speculator, through and through.

I don't think you can say, with any authority, that Nelson has had little interest in him from other clubs. I would bet a fair few weeks wages he has been well scouted by a number of big clubs. The lad is 22 years of age, captain, and has made over 200 professional appearances at football league level. The lower leagues don't have many lads like him knocking about.

Argyle fought to keep Reuben this summer by all accounts as well. Pompey very visibly tried to upset him, but he was told he wasn't leaving and DA did well to stop him having a Hourihane strop. He stayed at the club and remains focused in his approach.

I seem to remember when Tyler Harvey's stock was high, that Cardiff came sniffing for him, but the bids were rejected and the interest was fended off.

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We're now into November, surely contract negotiations need to be started now. As it stands they (the vast majority if not all our players) are free to speak to whoever in January, even if they remain with us beyond January, will they be playing with the same heart knowing they're off? Then there's the loanee situation, if last year's fiasco is anything to go by... Any other club in our position and I'd be laughing my moobs off, waiting for their inevitable 2nd half of season collapse.

That was the best Argyle performance I have seen in a very long time. The midfield were phenomenal and dominated for the full ninety. Defensively we were very good with super Luke only making one save I can remember. Going forward we also looked good and will improve when Reuben is back.
All in all Adams and his coaching staff are doing a superb job.

ejh wrote:

I don't think you can say, with any authority, that Nelson has little interest in him from other clubs. I would bet a fair few weeks wages he has been well scouted by a number of big clubs. The lad is 22 years of age, captain, and has made over 200 professional appearances at football league level. The lower leagues don't have many lads like him knocking about.

What they do have knocking around is a lot of older journeymen, that do an equally good job. Curtis will do a Hourihane at best, sliding down in L1, and then back to L2 bread and butter.
I don't say anything with authority, perish the thought. I just give of my opinion.
By the way, EJ, you're not the twerp I silently thought you were originally, you do have a reasonable and thoughtful eye for football stuff, and argue your case well.

Coxside_Green wrote:

We're now into November, surely contract negotiations need to be started now.  As it stands they (the vast majority if not all our players) are free to speak to whoever in January, even if they remain with us beyond January, will they be playing with the same heart knowing they're off?  Then there's the loanee situation, if last year's fiasco is anything to go by...  Any other club in our position and I'd be laughing my moobs off, waiting for their inevitable 2nd half of season collapse.

Totally agree. Carey, Reuben, Jervis, McCormick, McHugh, Hartley.... We are going to want them next season if we are in League 2 or League 1? What is to be gained by delaying? I have no idea, but it sure does create unrest with the supporters

ejh wrote:

Coxside_Green wrote:

We're now into November, surely contract negotiations need to be started now.  As it stands they (the vast majority if not all our players) are free to speak to whoever in January, even if they remain with us beyond January, will they be playing with the same heart knowing they're off?  Then there's the loanee situation, if last year's fiasco is anything to go by...  Any other club in our position and I'd be laughing my moobs off, waiting for their inevitable 2nd half of season collapse.

Totally agree. Carey, Reuben, Jervis, McCormick, McHugh, Hartley.... We are going to want them next season if we are in League 2 or League 1? What is to be gained by delaying? I have no idea, but it sure does create unrest with the supporters

Wycombe were in a similar situation last season if my memory serves me right. Flying high at the top but expected to lose a couple high-profile players in January, which they did. Now look at them.

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

ejh wrote:

I don't think you can say, with any authority, that Nelson has little interest in him from other clubs. I would bet a fair few weeks wages he has been well scouted by a number of big clubs. The lad is 22 years of age, captain, and has made over 200 professional appearances at football league level. The lower leagues don't have many lads like him knocking about.

What they do have knocking around is a lot of older journeymen, that do an equally good job.
I don't say anything with authority, perish the thought. I just give of my opinion.
By the way, EJ, you're not the twerp I silently thought you were originally, you do have a reasonable and thoughtful eye for football stuff, and argue your case well.

Bigger clubs though don't want journeymen though, they want young lads who listen and learn, and have time to adapt and develop.

Considering Nelson's pace, his sublime injury record (despite the heartscare last week's rumour gave everyone) and the balanced head on his young shoulders, he is a worry for me. I can see a Championship club targeting him for sure.

Hypothetically if he were to have two seasons at Championship level, starting next summer, and impresses - then he could be one of the better CBs in the Championship and still be 24 years of age. And be a prime target for a move into the top flight. I really don't see that as an unrealistic forecast/target for him.

For the meantime though, we need to get the boy under contract for the next few seasons. Deliver promotion and let him spearhead our next season. And hope no club can take him away easily.

Letting his contract run alarmingly low seems a very strange strategy with the above considerations.

ejh wrote:

Bigger clubs though don't want journeymen though, they want young lads who listen and learn, and have time to adapt and develop.

Bigger clubs already have plenty of promising young lads contracted who listen, who they loan out for experience. These clubs benefit a little from the rack and stack 35 player squads we had when in the CCC. Nelson's an also ran among many, who has proved nothing at anything higher than L2
You may be confusing apparent silky movement on the ball in lower leagues with effectiveness week in week out at a higher level. It's not even sure that Carey could handle real good midfielders closing him down at a higher level, but most observers would say he might. Luke Young is a good example. I know fans who really appreciated his skills, I did, YET, as Guy Branston loudly pointed out on several occasions, Luke needed a lot more than the nice touch and occasional long ball. If even the likes of the impressive Connolly ( shelley ) struggle to make it at a higher level, I'm sure Nelson is going nowhere. He's no Danny Gabbidon. He won't even be a Darren Purse or Marcel Seip.

Wotton got snapped up by Southampton so I'd be very surprised if nobody came in for Nelson sooner or later. That's not to say he would succeed at a higher level but his already vast experience on such young shoulders will be worth a punt.

Well,all I can say is we've done diddly in L2 with Nelson. We have always been suspect at the back for years with Nelson in the mix.
As soon as a couple of proper players turn up, we're flying. That says everything to me.

He's been in involved in one of the meanest defences in the FL for the last season and half, captain to boot.  That's what his CV will say anyhow.

Edit to add - I'd also say last season our midfield was at best very ordinary in this league. You know yourself the defence needs protecting. I'd be very surprised if anyone aside from Hartley and McHugh actually done any more 'defending' last season? Mistakes are bound to happen but Nelse stood strong overall.