Jezza Corbyn

Charlie Wood wrote:

Whatever his merits, it has to be considered that Tony Blair won 3 general elections by pointing the Labour party in that direction. When general elections roll around people tend to vote in their own self interest.

Kinda proves my point really.

Well here we are three months later and Corbyn has all the charisma of a limp lettuce.

Don't doubt he's a decent bloke but Christ, is he dull.

There's no expression, enthusiasm or energy.

His best bit so far is his happy birthday comment to the Queen.

It will be interesting to see how the Jewish problem plays out.

The Jewish problem lol. We have a minister suspended for stupid comments she made before being an MP she fell out with another MP who then had a very public row with Livingstone and we are led to believe that the Labour problem has a problem with Jews? Takes the limelight off the Tories nicely, Phillip Green will be keeping an eye on the six week marker he's put on the calender.

No mention of Jezza's anti-semites from the political commentators, wrong party I guess.

Not even one of Frankies 'hilarious' political captions.......nothing to see hear, move along please

Also it is a complicated one with anti Zionist and anti Semitic comments getting confused, I'm not sticking up for one or the other just saying. Israel hide a lot of the criticism they get for the terrible treatment of the Palestinians behind "anti Semitic" accusations when in fact it is criticism of their behaviour not their religion. The State of Israel gets huge support from the US as a nice strategic outpost in the sandpit and a lot of their crimes against humanity are therefore brushed under the carpet.
Anybody that believes that the Labour party is anti Semitic need their heads looking at Jezza is a lifelong anti racism campaigner, as is that utter count Diane Abbot to mention just two at the top.

Is the Labour Party anti-Semitic? Given that the last Labour leader was Jewish I think the answer can only be "no".

Are there anti-Semites in the Labour Party? Possibly.

Should they be booted out? Yes.

There's a real problem here over semantics. Various words are often carelessly used. Sometimes the same words are deliberately used carelessly. Often they're used through simple ignorance.

I'm thinking "Jewish", "Israeli", "Zionist" and "Semitic" here. They are all slightly different in meaning but the over-lap in them is huge.

And even then although the definition of Jewish and Israeli is easy enough to nail down that can't be said for Semitic or Zionist which have different interpretations to different people.

So is this a scandal? No. Is it a nasty squabble? Yes.

Should glib comparisons to Hitler and the Holocaust be made by anybody? No.

Should all concerned take a step back, take a few deep breaths and have a word with themselves? Yes.

Only then can the serious issues that this furore has thrown up be sensibly discussed.

Has the MP concerned done anything that bad? No.

Should Livingstone have known better? Of course he should.

Is being anti-Semitic racist? Of course it is.

Maybe this will help.

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Les Miserable wrote:

Not even one of Frankies 'hilarious' political captions.......nothing to see hear, move along please

You shouldn't have said anything.  It might have at least saved us from the inevitable boring lecture.

Funnily enough a journalist friend once told me to beware of anyone that answers their own questions.

His words were "they're full of their own importance".

How very true in Saint Francis' case..

It's all very problematic.

If you use the word "Israel" then you need to be very clear as to what you mean by it. It's easy to be mistaken for being critical of the state of Israel when you might actually be making a point about its government.

The same applies to using "Jews" loosely. Not every Jew lives in Israel. Not all Israelis are Jewish. Jews probably, I assume, all support the right of the state of Israel to exist but not all Jews will support its government.

And that was the easy bit.

To be honest its best to not even go near the word "Zion" because it has so many differing interpretations.

I think it is fair to say that there is often criticism of Israel (by which I mean the government), particularly from the left, regarding its policies regarding Palestine. This could be entirely justifiable. There is no reason that the Israeli government should be free of being evaluated just as any other might be.

So glad you cleared that up for all of us. I mean... Who knew?

Since giving my opinion, as pretty much I was requested to do, there has been 3 posts from 2 posters. Not once has there been any attempt to engage with the subject mattter instead of which there's been 3 ad hominem attacks.

Well done, chaps. It makes you look really, really good.

Please continue. You'll look even better.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Well here we are three months later and Corbyn has all the charisma of a limp lettuce.

Don't doubt he's a decent bloke but Christ, is he dull.

There's no expression, enthusiasm or energy.

His best bit so far is his happy birthday comment to the Queen.

It will be interesting to see how the Jewish problem plays out.

The post that I bumped was about Corbyn, his leadership qualities (lack off) and how he would approach the Jewish poser. (and I don't mean Lord Levy).

Not once have you mentioned Corbyn.

Instead you preach and lecture your view. You do this Ad Nauseum.

And I certainly didn't request you to.

Tringreen wrote:

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Nail on the head

I didn't say you did, Rollo.

Lord Melbury wrote:

No mention of Jezza's anti-semites from the political commentators, wrong party I guess.

Les Miserable wrote:

Not even one of Frankies 'hilarious' political captions.......nothing to see hear, move along please

They did though.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

I didn't say you did, Rollo.

Lord Melbury wrote:

No mention of Jezza's anti-semites from the political commentators, wrong party I guess.

Les Miserable wrote:

Not even one of Frankies 'hilarious' political captions.......nothing to see hear, move along please

They did though.

No we didn't. Just making an observation that nobody had commented.

Lord Melbury wrote:

No mention of Jezza's anti-semites from the political commentators, wrong party I guess.

You look after your input about what interests you, and others do the same. That's how it is.
If this person is a racist, than kick 'em out double quick. Both those causing the issue have been suspended. No more you can do.
Corbyn is doing a job that's not easy, against all the odds against his existing established Blairite party interests. I guess they've chosen this time to cause maximum damage to Labour chances at the local elections to weaken Corbyn. Sad, but part of the ongoing spat. I think they'll be disappointed.
The green party, that I support, has a view on the palestine/Israel thing for all those that may be interested. Some would want all matters of justice reduced to a pointless scrum, it suits the purpose of those in the driving seat.

Racism hiding behind other groupings is not easy to cut out. Look at this forum. We've had our outrageous overt racists on this forum, yet it's taken 3 years to get rid of them, and even then a rump of our users objected to getting rid. Corbyn's quicker on the ball than ATD.

Another point worth making is that Corbyn isn't in government. Whatever he, or anybody else not in government, says or does in opposition hardly amounts to a hill of beans in the great scheme of things.

It's those with power that matter and who need to be scrutinised. Especially when they are as callously inept as our current government.

Then again Tory governments always are. For example when Thatcher left office in 1990 despite massive revenue from North Sea oil and selling everything she possibly could inflation, unemployment, public spending and homelessness were all higher than in 1979.

And she was supposed to be successful!

Lord Biro wrote:

Lord Melbury wrote:

No mention of Jezza's anti-semites from the political commentators, wrong party I guess.

You look after your input about what interests you, and others do the same. That's how it is.
If this person is a racist, than kick 'em out double quick. Both those causing the issue have been suspended. No more you can do.
Corbyn is doing a job that's not easy, against all the odds against his existing established Blairite party interests. I guess they've chosen this time to cause maximum damage to Labour chances at the local elections to weaken Corbyn. Sad, but part of the ongoing spat. I think they'll be disappointed.
The green party, that I support, has a view on the palestine/Israel thing for all those that may be interested. Some would want all matters of justice reduced to a pointless scrum, it suits the purpose of those in the driving seat.

Racism hiding behind other groupings is not easy to cut out. Look at this forum. We've had our outrageous overt racists on this forum, yet it's taken 3 years to get rid of them, and even then a rump of our users objected to getting rid. Corbyn's quicker on the ball than ATD.

The way I saw it was there were certain members of ATD that support free speech and even a racist should be allowed that freedom, this freedom of expression only highlights their ignorance ala the bnp Frankie larf on pasoti and helps the anti racism cause rather than helps racism. Funny how a lot of liberals would rather censor than manage people. How does this work in real life, bang them up?

You have to be allowed to say "feck" because if you can't you can't say "feck the government!"

Except I can't, can I? It's spellchecked out so it says something else which proves that there isn't free speech on ATD no matter who might say there is.

Then again we do not have an absolute right to free speech in this country. There's libel and slander laws, blasphemy laws, inciting racial hatred is a crime too.

And that's before we even look at societal pressures: nobody would swear in a church or other place of worship unless they were being deliberately provocative; I temper my language in front of my Mum; nobody would yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre (unless there actually was one).

So there's all sorts of restrictions on what can and cannot be said that we all live with in every aspect of our lives and ATD is no different.

Racists are rather like rats. If you can see one there's probably more lurking unseen, not as brave, not as obvious as the one you can see but once the brave one gets away with being seen the others become emboldened and before you know it there's rats everywhere and they destroy everything because they are rats and that is what they do. So it's best to get rid of the rat, once you are sure it is a rat, as soon as you can.

Back to things that actually matter but which have been hardly mentioned due to the Livingstone/anti-Semitism bitchfest that has swamped our media over the last day or so... How many of you are aware that the Police are preparing to prosecute 26 Tory MPs who won their seats by cheating. More than double Cameron's majority.

*That* is the news.

(Note to self: Add "corrupt" to callous and inept next time.)

On and on and on and on....

..and on...

Have a pie chart (they were invented by Florence Nightingale - not a lot of people know that).

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It must be true because I read it in the Daily Mail.

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They didn't so much win the last election as steal it.