oldway update

Doris the site manager did say this about me although it's a lie,

Knarf Reprah wrote:
Turk? I smell a Greek or a Bubba Gump


Foo is actually an Argyle fan and a former Pasoti poster known to the Moderators, in his previous guise he wasn't banned. Quite why he pretended to be a Torquay fan is bizarre, but despite all that his posts remain on this thread.

Openess, honesty and transparency. Lol. One good thing about pasoti is that with 6000 members and half a million posts a day it's easy to hide.

KEVIN FOSTER

THERE was something uniquely amusing about watching the Chuckle Brothers guiding a 'hitman' around Oldway Mansion in a real life simulation of a popular computer game.

Yet what is not funny is how little action there has been from the developer who signed a deal some years ago to invest in the building.

I understand arguments are still going on behind the scenes between the council and the developer, but sadly unlike the mythical 'hitman's' approach, it appears there is little chance of that contract being executed.


PS

Torbay Council planners have been asked whether they are happy for a planning application to be kept live, considering that a number of conditions that need to be resolved before construction starts have yet to be met.

They decided to defer the decision for another month.

The month is up

As ever Jimmy is all mouth n no trousers

Another delay in Oldway Mansion redevelopment

DEVELOPERS of Oldway Mansion have been given a further two months to come up with a viable scheme to secure the future of the historic building.

Councillors agreed on Monday to give would-be developers Akkeron Group the two month extension to meet planning requirements.

Torbay Council's development management committee agreed with officers' recommendation for further discussions on the reliability of the finances outlined in the independent viability assessment to make sure the project gets built.

Those concerned about the state of empty Paignton's Oldway Mansion have been reassured by Historic England, who have visited the building, that it is not deteriorating.

It comes as a three petitions to Torbay Council objecting to the development have each been signed by thousands of people.

Planning officer Ruth Robinson told councillors: "The reasons for the delay are not down to the applicant. There has been progress. We've had meetings about the IVA and the applicant has had meetings with Historic England so there has been some progress.

"We haven't been able to do it any quicker. The recommendation is we have a further two months to investigate confidence around delivery."

Cllr Mike Morey asked: "Patience is running out a little bit. How confident are we that in two months we will have the details we need?"

He was told Torbay Council couldn't guarantee two months would be enough, but officers would 'keep the pressure on', come back in two months and let councillors know if progress had been made.

Cllr Chris Robson wanted reassurance the interior of Oldway was being properly maintained during its closer.

He was told Historic England had visited the mansion and were happy with its condition.

Akkeron Group, through its company Oldway Mansion Ltd, has taken Torbay Council to court for £8million damages and says it has taken the action because it still wants to draw down the lease and start its proposed housing and hotel development.

Torbay Council says it denies the allegations and will 'robustly' defend its position.

Restoration of the mansion was to begin in July 2013 and the rotunda in October 2013 with all work completed in October 2014.

Meanwhile a petition set up on website Change Org says the mansion was left to the people of Paignton.

The petition says: "It has been left to deteriorate and is currently not used. Cancel the contract with Akkeron group and restore and return this beautiful building to its rightful owners, the people of Paignton."

It had 2,676 signatures.

Another petition on change-org calling on Torbay Council to 'save Oldway Mansion from insensitive development, has 1,771 supporters.

The Liberal Democrats' petition launched earlier this year asks Torbay Council to keep Oldway for the public by setting up a community trust and inviting applications for trust members to take over control of the Oldway estate.

Always wanted to do this..... BUMP

2 months on from 19th March is next week. What are the odds?

Maybe all the money Brent has received from Wrathall, the Council and new board member will free up some of his cash (plus amazon vouchers and clubcard points obviously) to start work.

Dick Trickle wrote:

Always wanted to do this..... BUMP

2 months on from 19th March is next week. What are the odds?

Maybe all the money Brent has received from Wrathall, the Council and new board member will free up some of his cash (plus amazon vouchers and clubcard points obviously) to start work.

He has no cash

Tgwu wrote:

Dick Trickle wrote:

Always wanted to do this..... BUMP

2 months on from 19th March is next week. What are the odds?

Maybe all the money Brent has received from Wrathall, the Council and new board member will free up some of his cash (plus amazon vouchers and clubcard points obviously) to start work.

He has no cash

He's probably very comfortably off. He just has no intention whatsoever of using any of his own nest egg to benefit the club.

Just pop in to post these quotes.

one

Grant Wood

Just make sure this developer with at least two hotel developement companies liquidated don't get their hands on the ring-fenced cash already raised from other development on the ste. No doubt Torbay Council will stump up all the costs of the Oldway Mansion Ltd court claim as there is hardly a cat in hell's chance of getting blood out of a stone - not the correct metaphor but I'm thinking in terms of man of straw. Not sure at all that Torbay legal team is up to the job and by the evidence of the eyesore undeveloped sites recently discussed in this paper the council officers are putty in the hands of developers

two

Spindle shanks

Paragraph below taken from the report to Council on the 14th March 2016 showing how the Oldway project is to be funded.

Grant_Wood is absolutely spot on in his observations and I only hope Torbay Council and Torbay Development Agency don't cobble together a similar agreement for the Pavilion project. The paragraph was as follows:- "Whilst this is an improvement on what was originally submitted, it is all that can be guaranteed through the revised ODP. This revision explains that the works to convert the Mansion to a hotel will rely on the sales of residential dwellings comprised within zones C/D and A along with possibly quite substantial loans. The works to restore/convert the Rotunda and Stables will rely on mortgaging the hotel when complete. The Applicant is not able to provide guarantees regarding the availability of this additional funding. This provides considerably less certainty than before that the listed buildings and Registered Garden will be repaired and renovated and as such fails to meet both the Council's planning requirements and Historic England's enabling development requirements."

I've got a pot if he fancies a piss.

So if as expected Mr Brent purchases Home Park, is there anything to stop him from using our stadium as security for the loans he'll need for the Oldway 'development'?

No.

Dingle wrote:

So if as expected Mr Brent purchases Home Park, is there anything to stop him from using our stadium as security for the loans he'll need for the  Oldway 'development'?  

Nothing whatsoever. 

And maybe that's been the plan all along, although obviously we're being told by his foot soldiers that he's different to the last lot and can be trusted with Argyle's future. 

Perhaps when he forks out millions to buy the freehold while still not investing in the team, people will wake up to the fact that Brent is only interested in Brent.

He won't fork out millions to buy the freehold. Not his own millions anyway.

He'll spend someone else's millions in the form of a loan, get the asset in his name revalued so that its new value excedes the loan value and then he's already in profit. Then pay the loan off out of club income ("it's not any different to paying rent, is it?") meaning the asset is not only bought with someone else's money but the mortgage is paid off using someone else's money too. That's a Result! in Brentworld that causes more than his top lip to twitch.

Of course this is likely to be more expensive to the club than the current arrangement which means less money in the pot for team strengthening but hey ho what can you do? Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, can you?

And as Dingle suggests once there is some profit in the system, even if only on spreadsheet credit lines and so on, given that ultimately everything goes back to Natatomisam it could all be shuffled around so that Argyle indirectly subsidises Oldway.

None of which most of us would like to see which is ironic really because if Oldway was the profit-generator and Argyle the business being pumped up we'd all be delighted to see James Brent making the investment in the team, wouldn't we!

Tgwu wrote:

Just pop in to post these quotes.

one

Grant Wood

Just make sure this developer with at least two hotel developement companies liquidated don't get their hands on the ring-fenced cash already raised from other development on the ste. No doubt Torbay Council will stump up all the costs of the Oldway Mansion Ltd court claim as there is hardly a cat in hell's chance of getting blood out of a stone - not the correct metaphor but I'm thinking in terms of man of straw. Not sure at all that Torbay legal team is up to the job and by the evidence of the eyesore undeveloped sites recently discussed in this paper the council officers are putty in the hands of developers

two

Spindle shanks

Paragraph below taken from the report to Council on the 14th March 2016 showing how the Oldway project is to be funded.

Grant_Wood is absolutely spot on in his observations and I only hope Torbay Council and Torbay Development Agency don't cobble together a similar agreement for the Pavilion project. The paragraph was as follows:- "Whilst this is an improvement on what was originally submitted, it is all that can be guaranteed through the revised ODP. This revision explains that the works to convert the Mansion to a hotel will rely on the sales of residential dwellings comprised within zones C/D and A along with possibly quite substantial loans. The works to restore/convert the Rotunda and Stables will rely on mortgaging the hotel when complete. The Applicant is not able to provide guarantees regarding the availability of this additional funding. This provides considerably less certainty than before that the listed buildings and Registered Garden will be repaired and renovated and as such fails to meet both the Council's planning requirements and Historic England's enabling development requirements."

You've got to hand it to Jimmy he's got more neck than a Giraffe, first he says "give me a redundant building and I will restore it for you," he then follows this with "can you lend me the money to do it?" What's even more astounding is he uses his legal team to threaten the people he's holding his hand out to! Our chairman is a feckin embarresment and no mistake.

It's the new game in town. All over the country, connected people with a dozen or more companies are getting dirt cheap QE money "loaned" to them while the rest of the community carries on with the austerity. They are then hoovering up as many public assets they can from local councils who have been starved of cash by their mates in political power.
The councils have a job on their hands stopping this sort of thing, just as they had a problem standing up to the outtatown supermarkets that have decimated our high streets. There's alys a steal going on somewhere with these people. By the look of the above, Torbay Council have a strong case if he can't guarantee the delivering of the rotunda and stables. That would have been a condition of the contract I'm sure. Even if only implied, it should hold.
The guy is a creep of the worst sort. I'm doing the right thing in boycotting Home Park until he moves on.....PROPERLY moves on, not an asset stripped £1 hand over to a Pasoti/GT /Wrathall/ANother partnership. who would be more than happy to raid the budget to pay the exorbitant rent to their bessie mate. It COULD happen, or something very close. It's how selfish avaricious people have always acted. They're still being born, it hasn't been taken out of the human genes.

Lord Biro wrote:

It's the new game in town. All over the country, connected people with a dozen or more companies are getting dirt cheap QE money "loaned" to them while the rest of the community carries on with the austerity. They are then hoovering up as many public assets they can from local councils who have been starved of cash by their mates in political power.
The councils have a job on their hands stopping this sort of thing, just as they had a problem standing up to the outtatown supermarkets that have decimated our high streets. There's alys a steal going on somewhere with these people. By the look of the above, Torbay Council have a strong case if he can't guarantee the delivering of the rotunda and stables. That would have been a condition of the contract I'm sure. Even if only implied, it should hold.
The guy is a creep of the worst sort. I'm doing the right thing in boycotting Home Park until he moves on.....PROPERLY moves on, not an asset stripped £1 hand over to a Pasoti/GT partnership. It COULD happen, or something very close.

In my experience the councils often facilitate this kind of behaviour in the hope that private money will pay for what once would've been council responsibilty. Can you blame them, budgets are stretched to breaking point, some of the projects they manage to find money for are a bit mind boggling at times though.

Yes, I can blame them. They are elected to represent us and take care of our public assets that have been paid for over decades, if not centuries. They have not been elected to sell it all on, for next to nothing, and in some cases with backhanders. There's a case in point at the moment with murmured and proposed selling off part of Central Park for private development. They have no mandate to that sort of thing. One day, when people find their schools and Further education assets disappearing into some corporate pot, maybe they'll wake up. But then there's 20% who will actually be cheering the process on for some weird pleasure, that probably finds it's roots in poor/disabled bashing and the like.

It wasn't the local councils that "lost" all that money in 2007/8. It was the likes of Brent at Citigroup, who are now being given pots of the stuff to buy up anything that moves for themselves. And just why is he the chair of The Exeter Health Trust and Plymouth University as well ? Total systemic corrupt madness for the connected executive elite. It's a form of financial revolution going on right under our feet.

Corruption will lead to revolution sure as eggs is eggs.

If you were a complete 3rd Party with no knowledge of PAFC whatsover with no preconceived ideas and then read the thread from start to finish, you'd be shaking your head considering that this character Brent is the most devious individual around with complete and utter contempt for anyone but his own Personal Bank Account......No other possible outcome. Truly shocking.

DEVELOPERS of Oldway Mansion have been given a further two months in March to come up with a viable scheme to secure the future of the historic building.

We are now entering the month of July with no new forthcoming

No surprise their Tg. Just more of the same squatting crap, from someone who promised community added value and came up with diddly all over the West country,. De Savary comes to mind in the past in Cornwall, De Lorean in N.Ireland, with all their pie in the sky.   Chancers, underwritten by well meaning local governments looking for a decent shake. The modern version of the American travelling flim flam man, but on a bigger scale.

If he wins his case against Torbay Council, will he use the £8,000 000 to build our mini stand?

No :-)

Pension then

Tgwu wrote:

DEVELOPERS of Oldway Mansion have been given a further two months in March to come up with a viable scheme to secure the future of the historic building.

We are now entering the month of July with no new forthcoming

More delays for the Oldway Mansion scheme. The matter is to be debated at Torbay's Development Managem,ent Comittee on 11th July.

Quote from the report

"It is clear that the resolution of the future of Oldway is not purely dependent on a
discharge of these conditions; but primarily requires a resolution of the legal
differences between the Council as landowner and the Developer. Indeed, a
resolution of the legal differences is necessary for any of the options to proceed.
It is not possible to give a clear indication of the timescale that could be involved
in resolving the legal differences. Furthermore, the way forward from a Planning
perspective may to some extent be dictated by the way in which these legal
issues are resolved."

As a result Torbay Council's decision on the way the scheme can proceed is likely to be deferred yet again whilst viability and legal issues are further explored.