AFT meets with Tudor Evans about Higher Home Park

Oh and well done to the AFT.
The only organisation in this whole sorry saga
that has consistently been honest, given people a fair go
and stuck to its principles.

Now is the time to really bash the crap out of Brent and Webb.
You have the leader of PCC confirming on record what we all expected.
Now go for the throat. Force brents hand to bring to a beneficial end this
debacle so we as a club can move on. Easier said then done I know!


Kudos to you gents.

Has been an interesting read on here and on PASOTI. One of the things that shines through is the professionalism of Sam and like a few others were probably a bit sceptical about him at first. Glad to be proved 100% wrong and keep up the good work Sam you are a credit to the AFT.
Also happy to know that time is not of the essence at HP as another statement is due in 8 weeks.
Whatever will we talk about in the mean time.

Cringeworthy and as predicted by some on here at the time, a web of deceit , self interest and manipulation.

The reluctant one, his jamboys, their minders and the Avivas

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Tringreen wrote:

Cringeworthy and as predicted by some on here at the time, a web of deceit , self interest and manipulation.

The reluctant one, his jamboys, their minders and the Avivas

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sad reality Tringy - it was like taking sweets from a baby, so predictable!! Brent regime has been nothing but a nightmare for anyone with eyes, ears & a brain - protected by an elite cabal closing ranks for titbits!!

Front page of Brent paper

Discussions over new grandstand at Home Park are 'well advanced'


DISCUSSIONS over a new grandstand at Argyle are “well advanced” according to city leaders – with details set to be released in October.

A statement issued to The Herald by Plymouth Argyle on behalf of the club’s owner and chairman James Brent and council leader, Tudor Evans, said “further statements” about the scheme are planned by the end of October.

Earlier this month The Herald revealed how Mr Brent was “hopeful” of making a “positive announcement” for a new grandstand at Home Park “before too long”.

Plans for a £10million grandstand as part of a wider redevelopment of Higher Home Park (HHP) were approved by Plymouth City Council in August 2013.

But there has still been no official announcement about when building work will commence on the 4,800-seat structure.

The latest statement from Argyle and Plymouth City Council has been issued following the publication of minutes from a meeting attended earlier this month by Cllr Evans, members of The Argyle Fans Trust, Luke Pollard, Prospective Parliamentary candidate for the Plymouth Sutton and Devonport ward.

The meeting was reportedly held in connection with the plans for HHP, the future of the development, and the land which has been designated for its usage.

In the minutes the trust said it is – along with many fans – “keenly awaiting” news regarding progress of the HHP and grandstand redevelopment.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Herald on its website wrote:

DISCUSSIONS over a new grandstand at Argyle are “well advanced” according to city leaders – with details set to be released in October.

A statement issued to The Herald by Plymouth Argyle on behalf of the club’s owner and chairman James Brent and council leader, Tudor Evans, said “further statements” about the scheme are planned by the end of October.

Earlier this month The Herald revealed how Mr Brent was “hopeful” of making a “positive announcement” for a new grandstand at Home Park “before too long”.

Plans for a £10million grandstand as part of a wider redevelopment of Higher Home Park (HHP) were approved by Plymouth City Council in August 2013.

But there has still been no official announcement about when building work will commence on the 4,800-seat structure.

The latest statement from Argyle and Plymouth City Council has been issued following the publication of minutes from a meeting attended earlier this month by Cllr Evans, members of The Argyle Fans Trust, Luke Pollard, Prospective Parliamentary candidate for the Plymouth Sutton and Devonport ward.

The meeting was reportedly held in connection with the plans for HHP, the future of the development, and the land which has been designated for its usage.

In the minutes the trust said it is – along with many fans – “keenly awaiting” news regarding progress of the HHP and grandstand redevelopment.

“The redevelopment of the main grandstand is important for the club’s future, not only to modernise the stadium, but also for the projected additional revenue it would bring which is of increased importance given the club’s requirement to make a ‘balloon payment’ to its football creditors of up to £1.9million by the end of 2016,” the minutes state.

When asked why the HHP development had stalled, the trust’s minutes state that Mr Evans gave a number of reasons.

“Firstly, he stated that lettings on the potential site are going at a much slower rate than was planned,” the minutes state.

“The timetable has slipped far beyond its original timescale.

“The plan for HHP was predicated a percentage of the funding being taken up by Plymouth City Council and Plymouth Community Health.

“Mr Evans stated that neither organisation was made aware of this predication by Akkeron at the time of planning permission being issued and had no way of knowing.”

The minutes also state that Cllr Evans “confirmed” that the plan for a hotel on Higher Home Park has “fallen through” and will “not be happening” – this has not been confirmed by yesterday’s statement. Despite addressing some of the points in the minutes, the latest Argyle and Plymouth City Council statement does not directly address the hotel.

“The directors acknowledge the delay in the HHP development, but feel that these minutes contain a number of misunderstandings,” the statement said.

“That said, they do not propose to dwell on the details, as this would not be productive at this stage.

“However, the directors would like to confirm that they are working closely and enthusiastically with PCC in order to achieve satisfactory solutions relating to both the new grandstand and the balloon payment.

“Discussions are well advanced. Further statements are planned by the end of October.

“The directors remain confident about the prospects for the club for this year and beyond.”

Cllr Evans said he met with The Argyle Fans Trust to explain some of the background to this issue as there has been some “misunderstanding” about the authority’s role.

“The city council and PAFC are continuing to work closely together on the plans for Higher Home Park for the benefit not only of the club but for Plymouth as a whole,” he added.



Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Read more at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Well done the Herald, That fine piece of investigative reporting really helped clear up the muddle. They should be ashamed of themselves!

BallboyEGS1958 on the farm

quote

Some posters on here and on the other site make me laugh, they criticise the AFT for not publishing the minutes from the meeting with Tudor Evans quick enough “Due to due diligence being done before posting” quote


Who on here as criticise the AFT for publishing the mins?

Tgwu wrote:

BallboyEGS1958 on the farm

quote

Some posters on here and on the other site make me laugh, they criticise the AFT for not publishing the minutes from the meeting with Tudor Evans quick enough “Due to due diligence being done before posting” quote


Who on here as criticise the AFT for publishing the mins?

I did... For not doing it quick enough.  I asked what are they afraid of?  I stand by that statement.

I understand the need to cover themselves, but as you can see...  The delay has done nothing to appease or quell the controversy of whatever the AFT were going to report.


'Publish and be damned!'

AFT Summary wrote:

It was also predicated on letting arrangements that had not been made known to 16% of the participants (PCC and PCH)

Most of Tudor's statements are of little importance as they are his opinion rehashing what many have already concluded, but this is the one which he should be clear on.

Even at a conservative £50M overall budget it implies Akkeron were expecting a minimum £8M of funding from PCH and PCC. Assuming the PCH input is for the Dental Practice and would be less than a Studio School ~£2M then what are Akkeron expecting PCC to stump up £6M+ for?

Only guessing, but possibly, the share of the grandstand relating to PAFC; the car park if NCP have knocked them back or maybe the Ice Rink if they can't find an operator (the Ice Plymouth brand shown on letting agency plans doesn't appear to exist anywhere else). This last option would be most worrying as would saddle PCC taxpayers with the burden of ongoing subsidies.

Hopefully Tudor will be clarifying the points he has made in future joint statements.

I am “hopeful” of making a “positive announcement” about a new grandstand at Home Park “before too long” too.

I don't expect to though.

I am hopeful that Argyle will one day be a Premier League club but I don't expect it to happen.

I am hopeful that one day I will be a millionaire but I don't expect it to happen.

I am hopeful that I'll live forever (so far so good!) but I don't expect it to happen.

Yet another non-statement that clarifies nothing at all.

And still not a word from Nool.
What's he waiting for!

gasser9 wrote:

And still not a word from Nool.
What's he waiting for!

He is logged in on the farm.

Rickler wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Mr Evans certainly did consent to the minutes going out. Twice, in fact.

I'm going to do my best to find out what exactly these 'inaccuracies' are because they seem to only have been discovered today...

Cheers for the kind words all,

Sam.

Well done Sam.

May I suggest you take Chris Webb's suggestion and ask Brent and Tudor and their reps to meet with the AFT immediately.

I doubt that it will happen. ...and when it doesn't.  I suggest you call on Chris Webb to make it happen as he sure as hell thinks it is possible.

If he makes it happen. Great.  

In reply to Chris Webb.. GC wrote:

Graham Clark wrote:

Thankfully I was out of the loop yesterday so I have had to play catch up. In my view the whole issue arises from a failure of communication. We seem a million miles away from the heady days of January 2012 where hopes and aspirations were high following the Guildhall meeting.

I am struggling to understand why the AFT have been placed in the firing line and subject to unwarranted criticism whether it be on forums or on the ubiquitous Twitter, when simply they were passing on the agreed minutes. The meeting with Tudor Evans was cancelled and rearranged on more than one occasion. |The club were aware, I am sure it was happening, certainly if they monitor the forums as we believe. The discussion was carefully recorded and sent to the Council Leader for verification. Once verified the comments were sent to the club for comment, I believe two days before publication. Any Board member seeing the verified comments could simply have picked up the phone to either the Council Leader or the AFT to say that what was minuted was incorrect or unsubstantiated and then the 'misunderstandings' could have been corrected. Then we would not be in the position we are in. A failure of communication again.

I have no problem with the Board re-visiting HHP in an attempt to fund a scheme that can be delivered. I understand too that such changes will take time in a difficult commercial environment and against a backdrop of increasing construction costs. I do not expect even them to release full details in the interests of commercial confidentiality and if that means we have to wait until October so be it.

What I am struggling with is the Board always seem to be on the back foot and are reactive. The club statement is anodyne and unpersuasive. It could have been enhanced by reference to the promised Fans Forum or indeed it could have clarified, in the circumstances, that the grandstand would now remain open for longer. There are generations of supporters within that grandstand who still do not know if or when they may have to move.

You have made reference to 'getting in a room and having a full and frank debate' involving the AFT, PCC and the Board. I would actually take that a step further. I would make it the focus of a Fans Forum and then it can take place (and be recorded for those unable to attend) and be open for all supporters. I am sure as Leader of the Council Tudor Evans would be happy to attend. He and his predecessor Vivien Pengelly have always been fully supportive towards Argyle (some might say too supportive). I am sure he would only too pleased to have the opportunity to express how supportive the Council have been directly to fans. Equally, the Board and James Brent in particular have been willing, at a time of their choosing, to face direct questioning from fans in open meetings.  

In your new role you will understand the importance of good communication more than ever. In fact more than most you have always understood it, so perhaps, using the honorary role of President you can use your persuasive powers to bring such a meeting about. in my view the fans deserve nothing less at a critical time for the football club.

Go!  Go Sam Go!

Excellent work AFT especially Sam. Will be up to see you guys if the tent is up tomorrow to pay my annual dues. Keep up the good work and thank you.

One thing in all this I have noticed is the lack of local press coverage

stephensdad wrote:

Excellent work AFT especially Sam. Will be up to see you guys if the tent is up tomorrow to pay my annual dues. Keep up the good work and thank you.

One thing in all this I have noticed is the lack of local press coverage

It's to entangled in the Brent hysteria to speak out. It's colours have long since been nailed to the mast. With The The Club President's first column for the Herald appearing next week (with him jokingly calling Errington 'boss') it's only going to go further down the pan.

perhaps the herald can give the Trust regular space in it's sports pages. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

So in a nutshell : - (This will be fun)

Club nearly dies. Union man rallies the troops. Troops dish dirt on parties interested. Union man takes credit for all. Harry Potter rocks up. Union man grabs Potters coat tails and hangs on for dear life.Harry Potter makes a The President out of now ex union man.  Harry Potter makes promises of transparency, but meant invisibility. Harry Potter announces a state of the art stadium but it is invisible. Union Man bleats incoherently. Fans frown. Fans Trust do some good work. City Councillor says you got your facts and numbers wrong. Club says somethiing that is actually nothing. The President sycophantically tweets stuff but deletes stuff he doesnt like. Fans still frown. Harry Potter eyes the red button that says " eject in august 2015"..

Is it feasible to renovate the Mayflower stand? Have a standing terrace and put in new seats up top. Give the building a new skin so to speak and rip out all the changing rooms and put new in??

That Herald article is a disgrace. A 13 year old could write something more insightful using the most basic of sources i.e. the AFT statement, and a phone call to JB, Symons and Brent.

so in a nutshell

Trust meet with Tudor he said somethings and Agreed to the details of the meeting to be made public then suddenly the club/his mate throws a paddy and then suddenly denies saying it and the brent posse go on the propagnda campaign to diss the trust.

And they tell me they are only fans of the club and not corporate arse kissers

gasser9 wrote:

And still not a word from Nool.
What's he waiting for!

He's working on the basis that if he doesn't say anything his brain cells will automatically begin multiplying to the point where he can intelligently debate the issues with Sam and the AFT. He's due to release a statement in 2026.

It's funny seeing Webb squirm. For all is cocky egotistical bluster he is no match Sam and Graham.

Following the great work by the AFT, we now know the HHP in its current pathetic iteration is dying on its arse, not so much a rumour anymore.

What are the odds the ministand becomes the nanostand?

Graham Clark should be given a role in the Club. He always seems to know what to say and when to say it, something the Club lacks in spades.

Cornish Rebel wrote:

Graham Clark should be given a role in the Club. He always seems to know what to say and when to say  it, something the Club lacks in spades.

totally disagree Cornish Rebel. Reason being Graham Clark is exactly the sort of person you want to speak up for fans and whats right with the trust not be joining the problem no matter how noble an idea it is.

Tgwu wrote:

BallboyEGS1958 on the farm

quote

Some posters on here and on the other site make me laugh, they criticise the AFT for not publishing the minutes from the meeting with Tudor Evans quick enough “Due to due diligence being done before posting” quote


Who on here as criticise the AFT for publishing the mins?

Tgwu, I posted that message on “the other site” and you already have been informed of one member on this site who passed comment.
I do not make a lot of posts on either site, I am very pro AFT which can be seen from my posting and make no apology for that.
Like the majority of fans all I want is a well run club with supporters engagement
I am all for constructive talk and banter, but knocking something continually for no good reason I respond to.

The Snooper is back with his usual antitrustgynistic hotair.

I now know the trust were exactly right to do what they did.

He of course would have dealt with it totally differently.  Talked to the club, got answers from the club, agree the minutes from with the club, wait three months then the fans find out nothing more than the price of pasties is going up but can't tell by how much because the club have insisted that they sign a NDA.

Dougie wrote:

The Snooper is back with his usual antitrustgynistic hotair.

I now know the trust were exactly right to do what they did.

He of course would have dealt with it totally differently.  Talked to the club, got answers from the club, agree the minutes from with the club, wait three months then the fans find out nothing more than the price of pasties is going up but can't tell by how much because the club have insisted that they sign a NDA.

He is still bitter his beloved cheerleader group pasb got binned for actual cheerleaders