Nigel Farage

Oh, welcome back Tis. Stick around. It's strangely refreshing to have a contrary opinion now and again...  

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter that the min wage plumbers are Romanian. That bit is irrelevant. What matters is that an unscrupulous employer is gaining contracts by exploiting his workforce. If it was Plymothian/Cornish/Devonian/Cockney/Scouse/Geordie plumbers earning min wage your boy would still be too expensive at £12.50/hour.

This point never seems to be understood and it is why accusations of racism can never be far away (not that I have accused anybody anywhere, and definitely not you, of being racist).

You miss the point (again) SFD. No UK tradesman, having qualified in his/her trade should be expected to have to compete for minimum wage work. I can see you probably have no problem with this, indeed may even secretly be rejoicing at the prospect of having your tap re-washered or a door hung for next to nothing.

This is where the free movement principle falls down. Until there are equal minimum wages & equal benefits throughout the EU then those living in the poorest areas will naturally migrate to where they are best off, it's human nature.

EU policy has decimated the livelihoods of many in the UK. The fishing industry & the construction industry, both of which I am involved in are suffering terribly due to all manner of interference & restrictions from Brussels, most of which are carried out to the letter of EU law by the UK puppet government whereas other nation states largely pay lip service to them.

I can understand that those in the public sector or maybe working for a quango are insulated from these problems, it doesn't mean however that others are not suffering.

"most of which are carried out to the letter of EU law by the UK puppet government whereas other nation states largely pay lip service to them"

This is why UKIP are so popular, the cnuts in Westminster who are so Eurocentric that every utterance from Brussels is slavishly complied with, as long as it fucks the UK up, the rest of Europe tells it to poke it.

I have survived as a seaman working on good ships with UK crews by the skin of my teeth.

I am no racist but I believe British ships should have British crews, the MCA and EU do not agree.

It seems to me that the Romanian plumbers we're talking about here are identified as the problem. They are not the problem. They are workers earning a crust as best they can (just the same as the rest of us) and being exploited by, presumably (the nationality concerned has not been given), a British firm tendering for contracts from an English council. The Romanians are not the driver of this situation. The driver is either the British firm (which is escaping villification completely) or the English council that awards the contract to that firm. You could send every Romanian back to Bucharest and that same firm would make the same tender and get the same contract and just employ somebody else. Nothing would change.

The idea that UKIP is the answer here is simply erroneous. UKIP will do nothing to better the terms and conditions under which workers in this country will be expected to operate. In fact UKIP would much rather de-unionise and de-regulate leaving employers free to employ who they want at any price they want and under any terms & conditions they want. This will mean little effective H&S at work, a low wage for the job, no sick pay, no collective representation, no holiday pay, no maternity/paternity pay, no redundancy pay, short-term contracts and, in all likelihood, zero hour contracts without any guarantee of work at all. And if you weren't in work there'd be not much in the form of social security as a safety net either.

Is it worth voting for all of that, because of Romanian plumbers, when the Romanian plumbers are a symptom of the problem and not the cause? Not for me it isn't and I can't see any logical reason why it would be for anybody else (except the British firm and the English council).

Just think for a moment about how UKIP is funded. Is it mostly mass subscriptions from British workers or is it huge donations from Duke This, Lord That and City Boy The Other? (That British plumbing firm, the one that hires the Romanians, probably makes donations to UKIP too!) You know the answer to that as well as I do, you've all heard "he who pays the piper calls the tune" and you all know whose interests they really have at heart.

And, sadly, that is not Iggy's son. Nor will it ever be.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

It seems to me that the Romanian plumbers we're talking about here are identified as the problem. They are not the problem. They are workers earning a crust as best they can (just the same as the rest of us)

The cause of the problem is clearly open borders & uncontrolled immigration. I agree the plumbers, be they Romanian, Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian, whatever are earning a crust as best they can. They can quite possibly double or treble there wage coming here working for the UK minimum wage. No exploitation there, they will be as happy as pig in the proverbial !

If a system of EU wide minimum wage & benefits structure was in place then migratory pressure would be nullified.

the ruling class have this country sown up and thats the way it will stay.

FFS! Franny I'm not blaming the Romanians I'm blaming the system that allows it to happen, as I've said before if it were Teachers and Doctors being asked to accept minimum wages there would be feckin hell on.

Iggy wrote:

FFS! Franny I'm not blaming the Romanians I'm blaming the system that allows it to happen, as I've said before if it were Teachers and Doctors being asked to accept minimum wages there would be feckin hell on.

OK.

So booting out every foreigner and stopping all immigration would change it, would it?

I don't think it would.

Because every Romanian plumber, or whatever, actually brings benefit to our society and our economy; by filling one job others are created. That's how it goes.

Boot out the Romanian plumber and you boot out the other jobs indirectly dependent on him.

It's funny that you should mention teachers and doctors. These are both professions with strong professional bodies that represent them and to which they, nearly, all join up.

How many British plumbers are members of a similar body? A union perhaps? Maybe if they, virtually all of them - not just a few, were in a union and organised themselves effectively they might have rather better representation, wages, T&C and work.

This is another of UKIP's contradicitons. It abhors collectivism. It's all about competition not collaboration and I can't be arsed to point out how that effects holiday pay, sick pay and so on again.

Vote for feckin UKIP if you want to and once the country is rid of every last foreigner and things are even worse than they are now who will you blame then?

Yes, the system is wrong. No, UKIP is not the answer.

Where on earth does anyone state that they are going to boot every foreigner? This is exactly why UKIP have generated such a dramatic and popular slant in favour of their policies, because there is so much drama played out by the traditional "I wanna keep my comfy seat" politicians that have spent a lifetime learning how to bend rules to favour themselves rather than the people that they claim to represent!

I see now that UKIP are suddenly not the racist bigots any more, well not according to the media, the same media that have spent the last couple of months proclaiming that UKIP are indeed a nest of the Devils serpents, funny that!

UKIP may not be the answer, time will tell. But what we do know is that the traditional parties are definitely and most certainly NOT the answer!

Anyway, back to Volksfest. Ta ta.

Oh god give me strength.    for the last time I am not a feckin UKIP supporter, yes I am massively anti EU and was before I'd even heard of UKIP. I didnt vote for any of them nor will I. I can see why UKIP have the support that they do because the other two broken parties are sure as eggs is eggs not the feckin answer either! What's your solution? Join the labour party and try and change it from within? I don't know whether to laugh or cry really Franny?
I know that voting UKIP won't solve the problem of my boy being pushed into poverty by the immigration policy being used by successive Labour and Tory governments but voting for the lib lab condemns wont change feck all either. The working man is being squeezed harder and harder and apologists like you are aiding and abetting them, but then I expect you got your pension after working the coal face for about half of the working life of a plumber so I wouldn't expect you to. Cameron must wank himself off every night to an image of people like you keeping the status quo for him, well done mate.

SFD is of course, largely correct. UKIP is being used as a protest vote by many and should their impact result in an 'out' vote in a referendum on EU membership, it will be the responsibility of the main parties [Con/Lab] to determine future policies on a whole raft of issues, not least immigration and employment laws.

My own gut feeling is that coalition governments are the way forward. The Tories in total control will worsen social care/ the welfare state and fair employment laws. Labour in power would need controlling in order to balance the books and from being too soft on immigration and troublesome minority groups.

David Cameron masturbates while thinking about Sir Francis Drake? I didn't know that Iggy.

What a peculiar thing to say.

hairy j wrote:

David Cameron masturbates while thinking about Sir Francis Drake? I didn't know that Iggy.

What a peculiar thing to say.

Not totally true, more a homogenous image of people like him.

I expect he masturbates thinking about ladies boobs or something.

Nigel Farage and UKIP. What do the type of people who join UKIP masturbate to.
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GOB wrote:

Where on earth does anyone state that they are going to boot every foreigner?

Because that is the logical outcome.

If you expel or prevent Romanians then their place will be taken by Bulgarians. Boot them out and it'll be someone else. Boot them out and someone else gain. And none of it will work. So the scapegoatism, which still won't achieve anything, will continue onto unpopular sections our own population: people on benefits and chavs to start with, probably. There is no end to it.

And all of that is pointless because the foreign worker is a symptom and not the root cause of the problem.

Why is nobody putting responsibility onto the British employer? The same British employer who would be given free rein to inflict more of the same?

As for the Labour Party... I am not a member and, much as I would like to, don't particularly support it.

As for my personal financial situation... Assume away with anything you like but you have no idea at all. It's none of your business though and I have no intention at all of divulging such information no matter how inaccurate or otherwise the speculation may be.

I think we all know you do alright fer yerself, Franny.

Peruvian gold, expensive spices, silver...

We'll be knackered on a Saturday night out when we have to walk home, without a take-a-way and, if we fall over on the way home after drinking too much Belgian lager, there might not be a nurse at the hospital to stitch us up.

There's so much wrong with 'send 'em home' - our nation benefits massively from migration. Two doors down from me are a bunch of utter cretins - tracksuit wearing, skin n' bone chavs - all of them are Janners. I'd rather that house was rented to a bunch of Romanians. The nicest person who I've had the pleasure of living next door to was a Nigerian chap and the most publically spirited person in my street is from Sri Lanka.

People tbat post stuff on Facebook like 'English by the grace of God' tend to be the worst examples of humanity - it's the last bastion of the scoundril.

hairy j wrote:

We'll be knackered on a Saturday night out when we have to walk home, without a take-a-way and, if we fall over on the way home after drinking too much Belgian lager, there might not be a nurse at the hospital to stitch us up.

There's so much wrong with 'send 'em home' - our nation benefits massively from migration. Two doors down from me are a bunch of utter cretins - tracksuit wearing, skin n' bone chavs - all of them are Janners. I'd rather that house was rented to a bunch of Romanians. The nicest person who I've had the pleasure of living next door to was a Nigerian chap and the most publically spirited person in my street is from Sri Lanka.

People tbat post stuff on Facebook like 'English by the grace of God' tend to be the worst examples of humanity - it's the last bastion of the scoundril.

This country is so much better off with them begging, shitting and pissing in the street, setting up camps in public parks and killing protected birds for food.

Oh FFS! I have traveled and broken bread with most peoples of the earth. I have friends of all colours and creeds I don't have a problem with foreigners and don't want to send then home. I am saying that the immigration policy we have is wrong because it encourages poor Europeans to come and target the jobs of people on a living wage. No one will be happy until anybody that actually works in this country is doing it for £6.50 a feckin hour and we have the two main arguers on this thread who I can gaurantee work or did work for more than that and do recieve or expect to recieve a pension, unlike most self employed people who work so FOOKIN hard for their money it would kill the average desk driver in a week if they managed to last that long. That's why UKIP are doing and will do so well. Not that I support or vote for any of them for the last feckin time.
THAT IS THE REASON I AM ANTI THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION POLICY BECAUSE IT IS DESIGNED TO DRIVE DOWN WAGES OF PEOPLE LIKE ME AND MY FAMILY. CAPICHE?

Iggy wrote:

Oh FFS! I have traveled and broken bread with most peoples of the earth. I have friends of all colours and creeds I don't have a problem with foreigners and don't want to send then home. I am saying that the immigration policy we have is wrong because it encourages poor Europeans to come and target the jobs of people on a living wage. No one will be happy until anybody that actually works in this country is doing it for £6.50 a feckin hour and we have the two main arguers on this thread who I can gaurantee work or did work for more than that and do recieve or expect to recieve a pension, unlike most self employed people who work so FOOKIN hard for their money it would kill the average desk driver in a week if they managed to last that long. That's why UKIP are doing and will do so well. Not that I support or vote for any of them for the last feckin time.
THAT IS THE REASON I AM ANTI THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION POLICY BECAUSE IT IS DESIGNED TO DRIVE DOWN WAGES OF PEOPLE LIKE ME AND MY FAMILY. CAPICHE?

Spot on Iggy   

Farage seems to be the only one with a modicum of intelligence in the whole UKIP party. I said seems to be - saying that, thinking about it, he's the only one who seems to be on mainstream TV - I still wouldn't vote for the cnuts though.

The only thing I find myself in partial agreement with, is his proposed mandate for controlled immigration. I think, and I am more than willing to be corrected here, last year, immigrants entering the country, illegal or otherwise, was thought to be estimated in the region of 220k. I mean, come on, FFS. Is that sustainable for such a small and already crowded and creaking island? That's a city nearly as big as Muff every year?

How the hell are we going to cope with housing, NHS, schools, law and order etc? It's a disaster waiting to happen!! These are my fears for the future of this country and the future of my family.

My wife works for the NHS, which as you know has a large employee base of immigrants. The right kind of immigrants are a godsend, and good on them for coming here, integrating and contributing, and imho are very welcome to our country. It's a shame the same couldn't be said for the dozen or so Romanian piss-heads who seem to have taken up residence in our local shopping centre. I mean WTF could they be possibly contributing to our country?

My fear for the future is the continuation of non-policed border controls, and continuous flow of illegal immigrants which will, inevitably lead to large scale problems such as civil unrest, housing and food shortages, the collapse of the NHS as we know it - sadly to the detriment of all the good, simple, decent and wholesome pleasures that Great Britain has afforded us hard working generations for hundreds years.

You know, I used to tell me mam to shut the feck up about going on about the good old days - re 'the good old days' - I think I get it now.

Immigration from Europe is the problem according to Theresa May the home secretary. You are right with the figure of 200k odd poi. Another great point you make is about the lack of housing, schools and madeical care for them. Funnily enough Theresa May seems to think that cutting down the amount of welfare payments given to European migrants, only giving them three months benefits and making it three months before you can sign on will get us down to the 100k figure the government would like.
She must be mental right? I mean how is cutting benefit payments going to affect working people? Especially over fifty per cent of them? Feckin mental innit?
I am not a Theresa May fan either btw if anybody can grasp that concept.

Hopefully, this prediction will end up being the case.

'Polls ahead of the vote suggest these anti-Brussels mavericks – who range from progressive socialists through nationalist populists to unreconstructed neo-fascists, and from hardcore Europhobes (who want out of the EU altogether) to much softer "eurocriticals" (who are merely campaigning for a looser, lighter bloc) – may win up to 30% of the 751-seat parliament.

The mainstream pro-European centre-right and centre-left groups should still retain a broad majority, and the rebels are widely seen as too disparate to form a cohesive opposition, but a big eurosceptic success would send a strong warning to Brussels, pile on the pressure on national governments over contentious issues such as the free migration within the EU, and possibly come to be seen as a turning point for the union.'

As for UKIP, I sincerely hope they don't get a foothold at Westminster in the General Election and that the Lib Dems recover and continue to hold the balance of power in Downing St. The Tories or Labour in government with an overall majority, would be bad news for the country in different ways.
This EU vote will start the process for more powers being given back to national governments.

Cutting welfare payments doesn't touch those that have illegally slipped into the country.

Some have arrived with the help of criminal gangs...who house them literally as slaves and depenants on them for so called work.

Prostitution, nail parlours and car wash set-ups are some of the ways that these illegals disappear into the woodwork.....they have no rights and no way of supporting themselves without their masters support.....too scared to do anything about it...always with the fear of violence or deportion keeping them cowering in the shadows.

These gangs are inventing new ways of bringing illegals into the country and losing them into a working slavery invironment.

Theresa May will not touch those peoples lives with her stricter rules on immigration in anyway whatsoever........in the meanwhile she has that tricky problem each morning on deciding what pair of shoes to wear from her vast collection of outlandish pairs, doesn't that remind you of that Marcos women from the Phillipines.

Iggy, you seem to believe people aren't understanding you - that's not the case, I just don't agree with you. I didn't vote UKIP as they have no policies at all and many of their Euro MPs don't even attend. Farage's voting record is 50% yet he doesn't seem too bothered in being paid by an organisation he rallies against. He's a fraud and an opportunist.
The turnout nationally was 34% - if this issue of migration is so massively relevent, 66% of people in the UK don't seem bothered about it.