Shit hitting the fan again?

Thank you for explaining Graham. I can see how an error was made, it happens every day in the workplace with people "replying to all" when making a sarcastic comment, or worse, on an email.

What I can't square is that your message contained a great deal of specific detail with regards to the parent company's debt levels, plans for season ticket sales a la Ticketus and comments on the state of mind of Tudor Evans.

I can't remember you posting anything other than what you know. You're not an idle speculator and if anything your posting history errs on the side of caution. It is the reason why so many people trust every post you make. Whilst the message may have been meant privately your source of information for all this must be pretty rock solid.

I think we would all like to know is how long is the immediate future? Is that the same as how long is a piece of string.
I saw the wishy washy statement from PASB (If you can call it that) on the farm and as usual you may ask questions but we don't have to give answers. There is something fundamentally wrong with this football club and somebody is going to switch that fan to boost pretty soon.

Not a single shovel picked up on any of any projects, free cash squirreled away & you hardly ever actually hear from the guy - I'm afraid 2+2=4, the post/pm will be seen as for real!!

The only thing 'transparent' concerning Argiggle, are the desperate power and position games being played out.

The directors' box experience would appear to be the catalyst for janner compliance. Who's next ?

Graham Clark wrote:

ejh wrote:

I imagine Graham has been threatened with libel, or Brent has convinced him a) this information being leaked now will damage the club b) measures such as Wrathall coming on board are being taken to avert catastrophe.

Graham wouldn't back down otherwise,  I suspect. Claiming it was a mistaken PM clears him of libellous intent, at least.

Nonsense and I phoned him by the way. It is not a claim but a fact and more easily done on a touch screen than you would believe as I have discovered. As I explained elsewhere and actually have intimated on here before the immediate future of the club is safeguarded but it is for the supporters groups to continue to ask the relevant questions. I will continue to comment but in an authorised way if I deem it pertinent to do so.

In that case I apologise Graham, however you clearly have exclusive sources portenting grim horizons to have caused such a stir.

Has anything been said since that has led you to believe your information was wrong?

GC wrote on the farm:
I can confirm that it was intended to be a PM. It was a personal view. I have now had a long and very pleasant conversation with James Brent with an honest exchange of views on the club and the City I am much more reassured on the club's immediate future by facts that are not and will not be in the public domain. I am very happy for that to be on the record.




So GC has been reassured. No doubt others in the inner sanctum have also accepted the man's word. The rest of the support base, active and potential, are to be kept in the dark ?

Don't bother trying to to tell me that it's sensitive business information. It's more smoke n mirrors. Transparency my arse !

How far out was you pm/thread comment?

So has it been clarified who Graham was intending to share that information with?

Former director Damon Lenszner wants more transparency at Argyle

DAMON LENSZNER was appointed to Plymouth Argyle’s board of directors on the same day as Tony Wrathall in 2005.

Lenszner left the boardroom in 2007, but remains a supporter of the Pilgrims. Here, in his own words, he tells Herald Sport why he has reservations about Wrathall’s return to the board, and makes a plea to owner and chairman James Brent for more open-ness.

"THE FACT that Tony Wrathall is back in the boardroom must be seen as a kick in the stomach to the staff who suffered so badly during the period of administration, to the Green Taverners and all the volunteers who held buckets and raised money for them and to every fan who contributed to those funds.

Tony and I joined the board of the club together in February 2005, and we worked and our families

socialised together until I left the board in July 2007.

It is widely known that Tony is a true fan of the club who, during the ‘New World’ times generously used his own cash to prop the club up.

But Tony’s injection of money at a desperate time in the club’s history effectively bought him a place in (executive director) Keith Todd’s inner circle.

Tony was involved in all of Todd’s ancillary Argyle companies and, despite James Brent’s assertions that Tony was one of the least culpable members of the board at that time, he was deeply involved in the decision making process that led the club to the brink of extinction.

For that reason Tony should have just remained watching the game from the stands.

But the ‘drug’ of sitting around the board table, influencing the decision making process at the club and watching the game from the directors’ box is a powerful one that I know well.

Tony has been unable to resist the temptation to do it again.

The fact that he has, has raised questions far more important than should he be back in the boardroom.

The first question must be how desperate was the need for cash for James Brent to require a total change of investment strategy.

Mr Brent promised every fan that no ex-director would be invited back to the board nor would be involved as investors during his stewardship.

He has often made remarks that walleted directors should not be able to buy their way into the boardroom and that our board would be hand picked for what expertise they can bring, as opposed to what cash they have.

Yet Martyn Starnes, at a meeting of the Senior Greens on Thursday, commented that James had spoken to ‘whoever would listen’ to try to raise funds.

Tony did listen, fair play to him, but the board, again according to Mr Starnes, knew the stink this would cause yet still went ahead and accepted Tony’s money.

Was this a ‘desperate’ move? It certainly seems so but raises an equally serious question - just why did our other directors refuse to answer James’ call?

Messrs (Peter) Jones, (Richard) Holliday and (David) Felwick should be the people ensuring our club has sufficient funds to meet our liabilities.

The fact that they refused to do so speaks volumes for their commitment to our club.

We, as fans, were kept in the dark during the collapse of the ‘New World’ board.

The financial state of the club is being hidden from us again despite the promises of transparency.

Mr Brent I call on you to be open with us now. Would the Green Army rally to help?

Mr Wrathall is member of the Green Army, he did and so will many thousands of others if you just tell us what the real situation is."

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Tony Wrathall has the best interests of Argyle at heart, says lifelong friend

TONY Wrathall has returned as an Argyle director

A LIFELONG friend of Tony Wrathall has come to his defence after he was controversially re-appointed to the board of directors at Plymouth Argyle.

Ian Hill and Wrathall played in the same Torquay United youth team and have remained close ever since.

Hill, like Wrathall an avid Argyle fan, played for Dawlish Town Football Club for many years and also had a spell as a manager.

He regularly attends games at Home Park and believes Wrathall’s return to the board will be to the benefit of the Pilgrims.

Wrathall, 56, was part of the ‘New World’ regime at Argyle when the club were forced into administration in February 2011 after a financial collapse.

As a result, he lost a substantial amount of money which he had put into the Pilgrims.

His reappointment as a director, three years later, after buying a five per cent stake of the club has caused a lot of heated debate.

But Hill insisted Wrathall was only motivated by his wish to do all that he could to ensure Argyle’s success in the future.

Hill said: “Tony has returned because, at the end of the day, he loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club.

“He hasn’t returned for any financial gain, in any way whatsoever, I can assure any supporter of that.

“He lost a lot and lot of money the last time he was on board, but he’s a very avid Plymouth Argyle supporter.”

There had been talks taking place for some long time between the Argyle board and Wrathall before his reappointment was confirmed last Thursday.

It is thought his investment has aided a short-term cash flow issue for the club.

However, the fact that Argyle have made four recent signings – two on permanent contracts (Jason Banton and Matt Parsons) and another couple on loan (Cameron Dawson and Tope Obadeyi) – without there being any departures would suggest there are not serious financial problems.

Wrathall returned to the directors’ box for the 5-0 victory over Morecambe at Home Park on Saturday.

He had spent the previous three years watching games as a fan from the Devonport End.

Hill said: “Tony is basically looking to move the club forward, like we all want the club to move forward.

“He has got the best interest of the fans, the manager (John Sheridan), the players, the directors and Mr Brent at heart.

“Tony is solely back because he loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club.

“He has been through so much. Not many people have stuck by him, but I have because we are very close friends.

“All Tony wants is to see the club get back to where they should be, and that’s in the Championship.”

Hill continued: “Tony has not hidden in any way for the last three years. He has kept a solid interest in the club.

“If you speak to certain supporters, they would tell you he has not missed many home games over the last three years.

“After what had happened to him, I think a lot of other people would have walked away from the club and said ‘okay, that’s it’, but not Tony.

“He has put his hand in his pockets and has bought his tickets and been in the stands supporting the club.”

Wrathall’s return as a director was opposed by club president Chris Webb and the Argyle Fans’ Trust in strongly-worded statements.

Hill said: “I don’t know Chris Webb that well, personally. I have met him the once, in the ground, to try to explain to him some reasons for what happened, and about Tony, but he was adamant he didn’t want to speak to me as a fan, which I found a little bit upsetting to be honest.

“I have got nothing against Chris Webb personally. I admire what he has tried to do for the club.

“But he shouldn’t start pointing fingers at certain individuals that were on the previous board.

“Yes, the club – and probably Tony Wrathall – made some poor decisions.

“We all realise that but, at the end of the day, Tony loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club and really wants to see them get back to where they should be.”

Hill added: “He’s not going to throw all his money away again, but if there is any way he can help the club go forward, he will.

“That’s why he decided he wanted to go back on the board, and I have got a lot of respect for Tony for doing that because he could so easily have hid in Torquay, where he lives, and not been seen at Home Park again.”

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nice one Damon

Now we just got to wait for the Stapleton love fest and he will be back!

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Now we just got to wait for the Stapleton love fest and he will be back!

'I'll never hear a bad word said about that man and his lovely family'   

   for another 'fringe' in the DB.

The Avivas are thick and easily led. If the farm controllers want to keep their perks, they'll do the necessary.

It's getting like Dallas at HP. Soon the last seven years will be just a dream !   

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Viewing figures high tonight. Pasoti covers up so everyone comes here for the news.

True dat.

Not everyone on PASOTI agrees with a 'see no evil' stance, in times of worry it serves no purpose to hide things. So in such times ATD is always the default reference.

Not good this is it.

X Isle wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Viewing figures high tonight. Pasoti covers up so everyone comes here for the news.

True dat.

Not everyone on PASOTI agrees with a 'see no evil' stance, in times of worry it serves no purpose to hide things. So in such times ATD is always the default reference.

Not good this is it.

I think "times of worry" is an understatement  

Indeed.

I don't believe that's the real X-Isle. Not enough words.   

Tgwu wrote:

Tony Wrathall has the best interests of Argyle at heart, says lifelong friend

TONY Wrathall has returned as an Argyle director

A LIFELONG friend of Tony Wrathall has come to his defence after he was controversially re-appointed to the board of directors at Plymouth Argyle.

Ian Hill and Wrathall played in the same Torquay United youth team and have remained close ever since.

Hill, like Wrathall an avid Argyle fan, played for Dawlish Town Football Club for many years and also had a spell as a manager.

He regularly attends games at Home Park and believes Wrathall’s return to the board will be to the benefit of the Pilgrims.

Wrathall, 56, was part of the ‘New World’ regime at Argyle when the club were forced into administration in February 2011 after a financial collapse.

As a result, he lost a substantial amount of money which he had put into the Pilgrims.His reappointment as a director, three years later, after buying a five per cent stake of the club has caused a lot of heated debate.

But Hill insisted Wrathall was only motivated by his wish to do all that he could to ensure Argyle’s success in the future.

Hill said: “Tony has returned because, at the end of the day, he loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club.

“He hasn’t returned for any financial gain, in any way whatsoever, I can assure any supporter of that.

“He lost a lot and lot of money the last time he was on board, but he’s a very avid Plymouth Argyle supporter.”

There had been talks taking place for some long time between the Argyle board and Wrathall before his reappointment was confirmed last Thursday.

It is thought his investment has aided a short-term cash flow issue for the club.

However, the fact that Argyle have made four recent signings – two on permanent contracts (Jason Banton and Matt Parsons) and another couple on loan (Cameron Dawson and Tope Obadeyi) – without there being any departures would suggest there are not serious financial problems.

Wrathall returned to the directors’ box for the 5-0 victory over Morecambe at Home Park on Saturday.

He had spent the previous three years watching games as a fan from the Devonport End.

Hill said: “Tony is basically looking to move the club forward, like we all want the club to move forward.

“He has got the best interest of the fans, the manager (John Sheridan), the players, the directors and Mr Brent at heart.

“Tony is solely back because he loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club.

“He has been through so much. Not many people have stuck by him, but I have because we are very close friends.

“All Tony wants is to see the club get back to where they should be, and that’s in the Championship.”

Hill continued: “Tony has not hidden in any way for the last three years. He has kept a solid interest in the club.

“If you speak to certain supporters, they would tell you he has not missed many home games over the last three years.

“After what had happened to him, I think a lot of other people would have walked away from the club and said ‘okay, that’s it’, but not Tony.

“He has put his hand in his pockets and has bought his tickets and been in the stands supporting the club.”

Wrathall’s return as a director was opposed by club president Chris Webb and the Argyle Fans’ Trust in strongly-worded statements.

Hill said: “I don’t know Chris Webb that well, personally. I have met him the once, in the ground, to try to explain to him some reasons for what happened, and about Tony, but he was adamant he didn’t want to speak to me as a fan, which I found a little bit upsetting to be honest.

“I have got nothing against Chris Webb personally. I admire what he has tried to do for the club.

“But he shouldn’t start pointing fingers at certain individuals that were on the previous board.

“Yes, the club – and probably Tony Wrathall – made some poor decisions.

“We all realise that but, at the end of the day, Tony loves Plymouth Argyle Football Club and really wants to see them get back to where they should be.”

Hill added: “He’s not going to throw all his money away again, but if there is any way he can help the club go forward, he will.

“That’s why he decided he wanted to go back on the board, and I have got a lot of respect for Tony for doing that because he could so easily have hid in Torquay, where he lives, and not been seen at Home Park again.”

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Wonder how much he made out of the sale of his shares to Kagami and co and if the sum received more than covered any remaining debt due to Mr Wrathall at the time of his departure from the previous board?

Has Graham Clark said anywhere that the contents of his PM/ post were wrong/incorrect?

I've seen him say we are in safe hands etc but no statement that he was incorrect in what he initially posted?

Apologies if I've missed it.

Chemical Ali wrote:

Has Graham Clark said anywhere that the contents of his PM/ post were wrong/incorrect?

I've seen him say we are in safe hands etc but no statement that he was incorrect in what he initially posted?

Apologies if I've missed it.

No he hasn't - but he has graciously agreed to keep posting BUT only if 'authorised' to do so. WTF does 'authorised' mean? This is what happened in the days of the NWO and the entire time of Stapleton's reign. The club is entirely reliant upon its fanbase - the true spiritual owners. To keep important information about the future sustainability and viability of Argyle away from them is gross negligence at best. The earlier the supporters are aware of financial difficulties the quicker they can mobilise and do something positive about it - not be kept in the dark until it's all too late and have to deal with administrators - again.

If he only post when authorised we have to rely on Damon and SFD for the inside info

I will as GC always tries to do and only deal in the facts,
1) GC was worried enough about the state of the clubs finances to pm those details to someone on the farm.
2) Brent has calmed his fears FOR THE SHORT TERM!
3) I was right to question Brent from the start when I said that he had no money.

Graham Clark wrote:

Nonsense and I phoned him by the way. It is not a claim but a fact and more easily done on a touch screen than you would believe as I have discovered. As I explained elsewhere and actually have intimated on here before the immediate future of the club is safeguarded but it is for the supporters groups to continue to ask the relevant questions. I will continue to comment but in an authorised way if I deem it pertinent to do so.

Very strangely worded by GC, maybe another deliberate mistake ? surely he doesn't mean he needs permission to make further comment ?

Graham Clark wrote:

ejh wrote:

I imagine Graham has been threatened with libel, or Brent has convinced him a) this information being leaked now will damage the club b) measures such as Wrathall coming on board are being taken to avert catastrophe.

Graham wouldn't back down otherwise,  I suspect. Claiming it was a mistaken PM clears him of libellous intent, at least.

Nonsense and I phoned him by the way. It is not a claim but a fact and more easily done on a touch screen than you would believe as I have discovered. As I explained elsewhere and actually have intimated on here before the immediate future of the club is safeguarded but it is for the supporters groups to continue to ask the relevant questions. I will continue to comment but in an authorised way if I deem it pertinent to do so.

That should of course have read as 'authoritative' rather than 'authorised!! Sorry if anyone has misinterpreted that.

Jack Sheppard wrote:

Graham Clark wrote:

Nonsense and I phoned him by the way. It is not a claim but a fact and more easily done on a touch screen than you would believe as I have discovered. As I explained elsewhere and actually have intimated on here before the immediate future of the club is safeguarded but it is for the supporters groups to continue to ask the relevant questions. I will continue to comment but in an authorised way if I deem it pertinent to do so.

Very strangely worded by GC, maybe another deliberate mistake ? surely he doesn't mean he needs permission to make further comment ?  

Had him down as an untouchable with regards to Brent regime but certainly slipped up here maybe - almost a Ratner blunder except from lower down the pecking order, no matter as someone else noted, the cat is outa the back and can't go back in!! This sort of thing just gets stored in in the background!!