Drip....Drip....Drip...

Just when you thought things couldn't get any worse.....

Graham Clark on Pasoti wrote:

A week today on 3rd September 2013 the Cabinet of Plymouth City Council will be asked to change the current Home Park stadium leasehold agreement (agreed in October 2011) it has with Plymouth Argyle Football club to a new Home Park stadium leasehold agreement.

The new agreement allows for part of the original stadium area (1.22 acres) to be sold as a freehold (to Akkeron or another company) to enable the Higher Home Park scheme, that was recently granted planning permission (subject to a s106 agreement being signed), to be commercially funded and without the proposed changes to the lease the HHP simply cannot proceed. The new lease will just cover the ‘horseshoe’ seating and parts of the concourse around it and the new grandstand.

One important exception to this is that the 4 ground floor retail units within the proposed grandstand will be subject of a separate 125 year lease. The report says that the Council are expected to receive £30,000 ground rent from these units which represents 10% of the rent to be paid on these units (paragraph 2.6 of the Cabinet report). In other words these four units will generate £300,000 per annum in rent that will now go to the development funder rather than the football club. Some may baulk at this but capitalized up this revenue stream obviously plays a significant part in the funding of the grandstand.

This re-arrangement of the lease leaves the stated conferencing, banqueting and hospitality areas together with the club shop as the principal revenue generating areas for the football club. However, another use is referred to in the report that, so far has received little exposure – and that is a medical centre. There has been some reference to a dentist school and a studio school but not a specific medical centre. The plans lodged as part of the planning application give little clue to this use and it is not specifically referred to in the Planning Officer’s report.

It would be most useful if the Club could clarify what is meant by a medical centre, what it entails and whether any of the revenue it would generate would be going to the football club as, after all it would be using part of the grandstand leased by the football club from the Council.

We are told that the HHP development will put the football club on the path towards sustainability. Mixed messages have been received as to how much the corporate side will contribute in terms of turnover and net profit. The inability to obtain any additional revenue from the ground floor units means that uses such as the proposed medical school are the only opportunity for additional revenue growth that is of course if these revenues will go to the football club at all. Perhaps the PASB representatives can ask the relevant question..

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And Graham asks an important question here:

Graham Clark on Pasoti wrote:

On 3rd September 2013 the Cabinet of Plymouth City Council will be asked to change the current Home Park stadium leasehold agreement (agreed in October 2011) it has with Plymouth Argyle Football club to a new Home Park stadium leasehold agreement. The report to the Cabinet is unclear on two major issues Firstly, will the football club still retain the option to purchase the freehold of the football stadium in the new lease on the same terms as the old lease and secondly will the football club have all the necessary rights to extend the stadium in the future to increase the capacity?

Under the 2011 lease the football club had the option to acquire the freehold (.i.e. totally own) of the Home Park stadium for 12 times the rent paid at the time. (Currently around £135,000).The report is not explicit in whether these exact terms are replicated in the new lease. We do know that the four ground floor retail units will not be part of such an acquisition. Given that the Council is about to allow a further 1.22 acres of this part of Central Park to become privately owned (in addition to 2.27 acres already in the same private ownership) do Argyle supporters want the prospect of the stadium going the same way.

Would it not be appropriate for the Council to insist that the stadium remains in public ownership once the land disposals have taken place to facilitate the funding of the HHP development and the grandstand? There seems little or no debate about this. In the present ownership of the club this may not be an issue as the club could be deemed to be in ‘safe hands’ but the lease is for another 28 years. James Brent may not be involved in the club in the longer term so in my view it is important that the supporters know that the future ownership of the stadium is within the control of the Council and not any subsequent owner who may feel inclined to exercise the option to purchase the stadium for his or her own ends. Perhaps members of the PASB can seek clarification?

The second issue is the ability to extend the stadium. During the public consultation period plans to increase the capacity to 20,000 (by extending the ‘horseshoe’ by a few rows) were tabled. The plans were referred to as Phase 2a. The Cabinet report is silent on the future ability to extend the stadium. Has the football club all the necessary rights within the new lease to do this? What about the views of the Highways Agency and the Plymouth Argyle Safety at Sports Grounds Committee that expressed concerns about extending the capacity and its implications for additional traffic generation and emergency access. Was it ever proven that the Phase 2 plans complied with the Green Guide for Safety at Sports Grounds? The perimeter access road and the inability to extend the new grandstand are notable constraining factors. Perhaps again, the PASB can ask the relevant question?

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Just get it built  

History will condemn those who purport to be fans reps but who only seek position at the terminally boxed in club.

Predictably self promoting village idiots, doesn't even come close to describing them.

The reluctant bidder's 'Jamboys' will do just fine. Shout, 'Oi Jamboy !' into the shelf and most will turn round  

this was mooted on here months ago. the lies keep coming from (feather my)home park

Geddon n build it eh X-Isle? You feckin spanner. You get what you feckin deserve shitforbrains!

Mapperley, darling wrote:

this was mooted on here months ago.  the lies keep coming from (feather my)home park

It was all lies, lies, lies.

Made up by the freaks and weirdo's who aren't REAL fans.

 

Who would play Graham Clarke in the film? Cos I'd go with Jean Reno.
He's seriously unravelling the bullsh!t in the 'under the carpet' room on Pash!tty

I see on Pasoti, Mr Moist has commented-

Moist Van lipwig wrote:

It states here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that PAFC will pay an additional 30,000 per year in rent.

From the above article....

In return for the transfer of the freehold land, PAFC will pay an extra stadium rental of £30,000 a year, increasing from £135,000 to £165,000. This is equivalent to paying £360,000 for the land.


From the above, is it true to assume that not only do PAFC lose part of their current footprint (no future expansion there), they will also buy the land for the developer and receive no benefit whatsoever from any income the retail units generate?

Can't be true surely.

Can the PASB please clarify?

So Argyle are losing more land yet paying extra for the privilege? Aren't we lucky having Brent as our Chairman and developer  

Graham Clark says "Don't forget the ordinary fans"-

Graham Clark wrote:

Many will be impressed by the conferencing, banqueting and hospitality facilities that will be offered by the new grandstand. They are a welcome and long overdue addition to the football club’s facilities and will equally be a great improvement on what the City has to offer visitors. It will add significantly to the revenue stream for the club the extent of which will only become apparent after a year or so of operation.

The design of the grandstand means that these facilities would appear to be the exclusive preserve of those who will sit in one of the new 4,800 seats. There does not appear to be an ability to transfer to other parts of the ground. One reading of the plans could infer that the upper tier of the new stand is linked to the corporate offer with exclusive seating possibly at a premium price. There is nothing wrong with that as the club is perfectly entitled to maximize the spending of the corporate side of the business.

As an ordinary fan, however, I am slightly concerned at this stage as to what may be on offer for those who would prefer a pie and a pint to a waitress served three course meal. The Pyramid Suite is to go and as we know the ground floor units are to be held in private hands, thereby losing an opportunity for a large bar facility for fans to use and ensure that the profits go direct to the football club. On closer inspection the plans do show a 150 person bar next to the corporate area and a separate function room and players lounge. None are of the scale or have the accessibility that would meet the undoubted demand that is proven by the attendance at the fans Fests for example.

I really hope that somehow, the needs of the ordinary fan are not forgotten. Good beer, decent pasties and good company are normally all that is required but we need a facility to enjoy that and ensure that financial benefits of that enjoyment go to the club as part of its path to sustainability. At the moment I cannot see where such a facility can be provided and that is a major concern.

Finally, in the last ten years or so supporters have filled the Lyndhurst and Devonport and their needs should not be forgotten as inevitably the club will focus on the new corporate offer. Fully staffed and reasonably priced catering and a PA system that is audible would do for starters.

In the dash for enhanced corporate revenues please don’t forget the ordinary supporter. After all, through thick and thin they are the lifeblood of the club. Perhaps the PASB can explore with the club ways of enhancing the offer for the ordinary supporter, who would be unable to enjoy the corporate facilities.. Something like on offer at Walsall would suit perfectly. .

You can now see why both the Pasoti mods are so keen to bury all the grandstand discussion/opposition away from the main boards.

Can anyone (on this site at least) say they are surprised?

I see Postey tried poking his nose in and then fecked off when he realised he was up against John Lloyd and Graham Clarke!

Nooligan was purusing the grandstand threads as well half an hour ago so no doubt he will have plenty to say, none of it making any sense of course.

My guess is

"I will not allow libel on this site"
"This has nothing to do with football"
"I will not hear a bad word said about James"
"Just be thankful"
"Hurry up and build it"

I'm waiting for X-Isle to wax lyrical about how it doesn't matter, get it built, like the cnut he is  

Esmer has got it sussed, the fansfests will be held in the dentist's waiting room. The fansfesters will be tempted with £5 entry and free tooth floss and a pint of mouthwash.

The funny thing about Postey is that he was all over this kind of minutiae during admin. Looks like he's lost his appetite for nosing around in James Brent's darkened nether regions.

I think there are also a few people who should move out of the Grandstand and hanging out with their sycophantic 'REAL' mates and stop pooh poohing the silent majority/minority in fan polls and stop getting metaphorically aroused every time James Brent speaks or glances in their general direction. And as for PASB members who tick all or any of the previous boxes should stand down forthwith.

I think a Medical Centre should be built within the footprint of the football club if at all possible.



Everything Brent does to PAFC makes me fell sicker and sicker.

Surpised? - no of course not. Doesn't make me any less angry though.

Reading many on pisspot now, the reality of this mess is coming home to roost!! We have been sold a pup!! 

With the additional expenditure of £30,000pa on rent it just shows that the "it's a FREE stand" brigade really do know jacksh#t.

Talking of "free" things, can anyone explain why you get a "free pint and a pasty" at the fanfests when you've spent £5 getting in?

Surely that £5 has paid for the pint and pasty.  

The argument will be that at just £30k a year, it's great value! Most of it won't be read by Argyle fans as it's buried in a sub-forum. It's just sad and predictable. Again, I have nothing against Brent being opportunistic - it's why he is in business - I object to being told to be grateful though as I'm not stupid and being told he actually cares about Plymouth Argyle when he doesn't.

This is essentially an interest free loan for a stand isn't it?

Freathy wrote:

Surpised? - no of course not.  Doesn't make me any less angry though.

This, but with knobs on.

I think the penny has started to drop with one or two. I wonder if newell has susseed it yet.

Porkys very quiet about it and he was reading the new grandstand forum earlier. He'll probably phone Jimmy, he can't tx with his pork sausage fingers, to seek reassurances and be told it's all ok, just legal mumbo jumbo nothing to worry about and why doesn't he auction a shirt to keep the plebs from asking awkward questions.

Oh shit, now they're asking for Webbs opinion on it all! Quick release a presidents progress with another story about your dad Chris, that'll settle em right down. And remember we're practically in the play-offs.