Walrond

greensleeves wrote:

Pokesdown wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Quite aside from the belief that we underachieved in the Holloway years and the opinion that if we'd have pushed on in terms of gates if we showed signs of really going for it (which I agree with), the article is poorly written and lacking in basic facts.

As the AFT have said, once you add 4,800 to 12,600 and subtract segregation you will have at the very MAXIMUM a capacity of 17,000. Probably less. So it's in fact not 'just one or two games' that have ever gone above the capacity of this new stand which I keep hearing, but it is in fact between 20-25 games from Luggy's first promotion season up to around 2007. 20-25 games is not to be sniffed at, at all. The extra income from that which we will miss out on from a 17,000 stadium will stretch into the hundreds of thousands.

So, our financial situation if/when we return to the Championship...these are the factors to consider:

-We will be losing a lot of income (probably hundreds of thousands) from the stand's lower capacity than last time as we won't be able to get so many paying customers in which is money down from what we had last time.
- We will owe money to historic creditors, James Brent and the Green Taverners which we did not owe last time.
-We will be gaining only £1million a year (if that) on top of what we did last time from sponsorship/conferences/banquets/the school.

Yet in spite of all that it's seriously being espoused that when we get into the Championship the club will find £2.5 million to add 2,500 seats of restricted view to the Devonport End over one Summer, just like that? The horseshoe extension will happen on the 12th of Never.

Quite simply, we need a bigger Mayflower than the proposed stand. Not to build one will go down in history as one of the biggest watershed moments of failure and under-ambition even by Argyle's standards.

Great post Sam and nail on head. Do you think you can convince the Brentites on the other side?

This argument though is flawed..I think that the ground capacity when the new stand is built,will be in excess of 17000 as I see the segregation area being greatly reduced from the figure of 400 mentioned. That aside,there weren't that many matches that crowds were in excess of 17000,when we were last in the CCC apart from that first season,which could be down to novelty value.Again I fully expect that factor to kick in when the new stand is built.Whilst we wont be able to match the 19000+for the QPR game for example,there will be plenty of room for the 12000 or so that turned up for other matches,so that whilst the highs will be lower,the lows might well be higher.Season tickets will be the key as I would fully expect the club to use the old strapline"Buy a season ticket and be part of the action throughout the season",so that the club might sell out of season tickets,and attendances will therefore be around 17000 every game regardless of opposition.So you will get lower highs but higher lows.
As for the club being in debt to James Brent,yep true although pre Brent I believe the club was also in debt to Paul Stapleton,Robert Dennerley and Tony Wrathall,for loans that they had made,well before Todd and Gardner arrived on the scene.
I also believe the corporate sector will bring in a lot lot more money than you have posted.I am a regular attendee in the business lounge,and it has been sold out on numerous occasions last season and could well benefit from increased capacity.At present there are abot 160 covers in the lounge,and by increasing this to around 600 covers,it will greatly add to the matchday revenue.Especially again as the novelty factor kicks in.
Add to that alcohol sales,etc etc,and it will be a nice little earner as Del boy would say.I also think that the proposed "school" will be turned into matchday lounges similar to the Bickle suite and Chisholm lounge are at the moment.Again all additional revenue to the club's bottom line.
So to conclude I think, unlike you Sam,that the clubs financial status will improve considerably,and the club will be gaining a lot more than £1 million a year,probably nearer £3 million, when the new stand is built whatever the final capacity

If that is the case,then i'm very,very surprised that it hasn't been used so far by Mr Brent in his defence of the proposals.

If you're a regular greensleeves have you seen the Clampetts aka the Newell's in action? Can't see that encouraging too many sponsors, in fact one major sponsor has hinted he might not bother again if the Newells are allowed to harass and abuse customers.

I'm usually on a table with either Steve Davey,Johnny Hore or Duncan Neale.Old players that I have got to know quite well.I have never witnessed any trouble in the lounge at all.Its all very well mannered and a very good match day experience as far as I can tell.If there are incidents then they are very low key.Rarely if ever do I see Ian Newell,he doesn't eat in the business lounge.There are loads of sponsors in the lounge.Taxi Firms,Citybus,FGW.Bond Timber, Prime Properties,St. Austell breweries to name just a few.

greensleeves wrote:

the club will be gaining a lot more than £1 million a year,probably nearer £3 million, when the new stand is built whatever the final capacity

If you say so. Can't think why no one didn't just get on with it years ago with that sort of return. Fancy that, the whole stand cost being cleared in less than 4 years. Well, I never.
No need for anyone to sell off bits of the stadium ( aka parkland ) to pay for the build then. Argyle can just give Brenty a cool million a year and still have a couple of million to spare for players. Job done.

greensleeves wrote:

I'm usually on a table with either Steve Davey,Johnny Hore or Duncan Neale.Old players that I have got to know quite well.I have never witnessed any trouble in the lounge at all.Its all very well mannered and a very good match day experience as far as I can tell.If there are incidents then they are very low key.Rarely if ever do I see Ian Newell,he doesn't eat in the business lounge.There are loads of sponsors in the lounge.Taxi Firms,Citybus,FGW.Bond Timber, Prime Properties,St. Austell breweries to name just a few.

Well the club are aware of the incidents which were widely publicised on here and the person/table who was the subject of the Newells and Mr Desborough's anger said that he would think twice about sponsoring again. That's a regular table plus advertising boards around the pitch. If the club can afford to lose regular sponsors like this then the figures quoted won't happen while you've got a hole in your ass.

From the childlike scrawlings of the plans of the mini-stand, it looks like nothing much more than is available already at the ground so why would big businesses be in a rush to use Home Park as a conference venue? There's far better available up the road and even the 7 storey hotel will have conferencing facilities apparently.

I would bet good money that the £1-2 million quoted by James Brent will include naming rights to the new stand or even the ground, and that's fine but I doubt very much that anywhere near that amount will come from "additional" corporate income.

Unless you are aware of details that haven't been made common knowledge yet I really can't see how you can be so ready to accept James Brent's word on everything, especially as he's hardly been very accurate with anything else he's done at Argyle has he? He's changed his tune about the retail units, the access road is now moveable all of a sudden, he won't give details on how the capacity can be expanded in future and his own team have actually been saying it's not possible. Then there's the magic school which just appeared overnight. Not a dickie bird about it and then it's there. Did he think nobody would notice it or something?

Sorry but I think you must have more information than has been shared with the rest of us, just like Newell, Webb and Postey must also have, because it's inconceivable that all of you would be so happy with the plans as they have been presented to the public.

Jock...If a complaint was made,then why doesn't the complainant come on here and give his version of events as to why someone would throw a pint of beer over them.I appreciate that the club cannot afford to lose any sponsor so that incident would be greatly regretted,but I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill on this one.There are twenty three home matches plus say three or four cup matches,whatever, over a season.There are up to 20 tables in the business lounge.So as for tables go.. 500+over a season with one incident reported.Whilst zero tolerance is obviously the aim for any lounge,one incident on a table when there are over 500 tables throughout a season,is no cause for the concern that you attribute to it.

greensleeves wrote:

Jock...If a complaint was made,then why doesn't the complainant come on here and give his version of events as to why someone would throw a pint of beer over them.I appreciate that the club cannot afford to lose any sponsor so that incident would be greatly regretted,but I think you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill on this one.There are twenty three home matches plus say three or four cup matches,whatever, over a season.There are up to 20 tables in the business lounge.So as for tables go.. 500+over a season with one incident reported.Whilst zero tolerance is obviously the aim for any lounge,one incident on a table when there are over 500 tables throughout a season,is no cause for the concern that you attribute to it.

If it were me that threw the drink and was threatening corporate guests it would've had a completely different outcome that's why. You might think it's ok for the associate director and his son to cause trouble and then sit in the directors box but I would hazard a guess that's because your quite friendly with the cnuts.

Does that answer your points? Seeing as you ignored most of mine.

greensleeves wrote:

Pokesdown wrote:

GreenSam wrote:

Quite aside from the belief that we underachieved in the Holloway years and the opinion that if we'd have pushed on in terms of gates if we showed signs of really going for it (which I agree with), the article is poorly written and lacking in basic facts.

As the AFT have said, once you add 4,800 to 12,600 and subtract segregation you will have at the very MAXIMUM a capacity of 17,000. Probably less. So it's in fact not 'just one or two games' that have ever gone above the capacity of this new stand which I keep hearing, but it is in fact between 20-25 games from Luggy's first promotion season up to around 2007. 20-25 games is not to be sniffed at, at all. The extra income from that which we will miss out on from a 17,000 stadium will stretch into the hundreds of thousands.

So, our financial situation if/when we return to the Championship...these are the factors to consider:

-We will be losing a lot of income (probably hundreds of thousands) from the stand's lower capacity than last time as we won't be able to get so many paying customers in which is money down from what we had last time.
- We will owe money to historic creditors, James Brent and the Green Taverners which we did not owe last time.
-We will be gaining only £1million a year (if that) on top of what we did last time from sponsorship/conferences/banquets/the school.

Yet in spite of all that it's seriously being espoused that when we get into the Championship the club will find £2.5 million to add 2,500 seats of restricted view to the Devonport End over one Summer, just like that? The horseshoe extension will happen on the 12th of Never.

Quite simply, we need a bigger Mayflower than the proposed stand. Not to build one will go down in history as one of the biggest watershed moments of failure and under-ambition even by Argyle's standards.

Great post Sam and nail on head. Do you think you can convince the Brentites on the other side?

This argument though is flawed..I think that the ground capacity when the new stand is built,will be in excess of 17000 as I see the segregation area being greatly reduced from the figure of 400 mentioned. That aside,there weren't that many matches that crowds were in excess of 17000,when we were last in the CCC apart from that first season,which could be down to novelty value.Again I fully expect that factor to kick in when the new stand is built.Whilst we wont be able to match the 19000+for the QPR game for example,there will be plenty of room for the 12000 or so that turned up for other matches,so that whilst the highs will be lower,the lows might well be higher.Season tickets will be the key as I would fully expect the club to use the old strapline"Buy a season ticket and be part of the action throughout the season",so that the club might sell out of season tickets,and attendances will therefore be around 17000 every game regardless of opposition.So you will get lower highs but higher lows.
As for the club being in debt to James Brent,yep true although pre Brent I believe the club was also in debt to Paul Stapleton,Robert Dennerley and Tony Wrathall,for loans that they had made,well before Todd and Gardner arrived on the scene.
I also believe the corporate sector will bring in a lot lot more money than you have posted.I am a regular attendee in the business lounge,and it has been sold out on numerous occasions last season and could well benefit from increased capacity.At present there are abot 160 covers in the lounge,and by increasing this to around 600 covers,it will greatly add to the matchday revenue.Especially again as the novelty factor kicks in.
Add to that alcohol sales,etc etc,and it will be a nice little earner as Del boy would say.I also think that the proposed "school" will be turned into matchday lounges similar to the Bickle suite and Chisholm lounge are at the moment.Again all additional revenue to the club's bottom line.
So to conclude I think, unlike you Sam,that the clubs financial status will improve considerably,and the club will be gaining a lot more than £1 million a year,probably nearer £3 million, when the new stand is built whatever the final capacity

Three main points,

1) The segregation almost always takes up a full block so I think 400 is a fair amount for capacity. Even if we do have a limit of 17,000, then that's still about 20 games from 2001-2007 (not just a few) that would leave fans locked out.
2) We did owe a bit of money last time, but not nearly as much as we're likely to owe the next time we go up.
3) Your faith in the new facilities isn't even shared by the man building them. It's James Brent who has said £1 million, not me so I think it's fair to say the income won't be much more than one million. It will be a nice little earner to an extent but £1 million in terms of what it raised before is still a fair increase- it's just not that much in the grand scheme of things when we get back up.

I can't see anything to change my mind that building the horseshoe extension simply won't happen when we get back up and if it did it would eat so far into the playing budget we'd go right back down. So either way, there's nothing there which would lead to sustainable, long-term Championship football.

We COULD do a Blackpool who got promoted to the PL on crowds of 15,000- but they had a wealthy Latvian backer and I think you'd agree that attendance wise they are the exception and not the norm.

I'd forgotten that Palace were in administration in 2010. Funny old world.

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

How very insular and village. I must say I'm not at all surprsed though. It has been obvious for some time what brent's plans are and his choice of friends, or should that be jamboys, should be the clue.
He'll be out of the club as soon as he can, with money in the bank and more to come from the grateful bucket rattlers in the future.
Roll up ! Roll up ! Green Arrrrrmeeeee, you've been had !

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

greensleeves wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

It all reads well, but can't entirely agree - it seems you think all is well in general but in my opinion Brent & crew have alienated many fans in the past 2 years!! Not a problem, as I said each fan must search his conscience and abide by it - we all have that right. As always, this could have been handled better all round!!

greensleeves wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

Are the fans fests being held in the new mini stand? I didn't think there was a venue decided yet? There also doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement for the Far Post club?

I hope the restrictive plans get blocked and brent [why is it always reverently, 'James Brent' ?] has to build it properly for a city club, to inspire the wider potential fanbase, rather than keeping a few local dimwits happy because they feel important. Or not build it at all.

Chemical Ali wrote:

greensleeves wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

Are the fans fests being held in the new mini stand? I didn't think there was a venue decided yet? There also doesn't seem to be a like for like replacement for the Far Post club?

Details haven't been released yet,so just guessing.I would like to see something similar to Shearer's bar at St James Park,Newcastle,where they have a long bar and a large entertainment area in one.Something similar would easily accomodate fan fests,far post club members.The GT's are pretty astute businessen in their own right,as well as being very good at fundraising,so I expect they will have an input regarding the fans fests.The plans should be online sometime this week or early next week,we will all find out then.

Jon B's firmly onside now. Hand in hand with Postey still trying the old "Free grandstand, be grateful" routine.

As someone not living or working in Plymouth I fully expect him to be told to keep his nose out anytime now like everyone else has. Unless of course it's not ALL outsiders who need to keep their nose out of Janner business?

I wonder how Jon's meeting with Chris Webb went as well? The one where he was going to raise points like being warned about posting on ATD if he wanted to make the PASB, people getting threatened and private detectives being hired?

Maybe it took place one night in Rochdale?

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You lot really going to take much notice of a third rate hack, writing a sports column in a local right wing tory ill informed rag designed for the west country brain dead.
I'm not, do we need to keep talking about a property developing ex banker, who clearly has designs on developing an important and precious part of Plymouth, for his own gains. Oh and he's going to tack on a football club to his plans, because he 'saved us'!
Happy days.

greensleeves wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

What about the missing 12,000 or so? I am one of them, season ticket holder for ever and I would rather use my money for something else because I think we are having our future stolen from under us by a property developer who has asset stripped the club for financial gain, this is all about Brent not Argyle and he is being aided and abetted by people like you. That is the sad thing, people would rather see the clubs assets stolen rather than think that a big businessman who has repeatedly moved goal posts regarding the development, dumped a school in the ground, thrown hissy fits when questioned and carries on regardless with his plans. My question to you would be, "what's in it for you?"
I can think of no other reason for supporting this scheme unless you are benefiting in some way, in time you and others like you will feel ashamed, probably not but you should do.

I thought Brent's answers to Pasoti's Q&A said it all- how much time and effort did pasoti posters and postey put in to organising it for it to be completely ignored?

If Carlsberg did Fan engagement.....they wouldn't go anywhere near Brent and the argyle board

I rather have nothing than a small stand that decreases the overall capacity of the stadium and cant be extended in the future. Build a decent stand that can be extended to fit 8000 in the future and all will be well because at the end of the day Plymouth doesnt need another nandos blocking future developments of that stand but it does need a football club doing well.

Call me ungrateful but that stinks of beign cheap and tacky not one fit for a football club that is "ambitious"

I'm sure Jon you will have a great time using the corporate facilities that stand will have as you ceased to be a fan of the club and join ian and chris in being sellouts. Congratulations i encourage gob to add you to the list

Simple innit, if the Club is unlikely to ever reach the Premier than why not build it with a 9,000 capacity?

At least it will be cheaper to knock down should we gain a decent bunch in the boardroom and experience that freak of nature called success.

GOB wrote:

Simple innit, if the Club is unlikely to ever reach the Premier than why not build it with a 9,000 capacity?

At least it will be cheaper to knock down should we gain a decent bunch in the boardroom and experience that freak of nature called success.

It will be impossible i think to knock the stand down once its built due to the outside buildings. The only hope is with an ambitious owner who wants to achieve something more than 22nd in the league every year to build a new stadium somewhere in Plymouth.

Iggy wrote:

greensleeves wrote:

Bandwagon wrote:

Reading the Greensleeves posts my deduction is that Brent is building a corporate entertainment facility with a stand attached - and yes I do mean only the Argyle bit!! I have done the business lounge twice and the Pyramid thing a bit longer ago - found both venues very insular and elitist, although I've been in business for 30 odd years and could afford it I won't be sampling that any time soon!! To sum it up I would say that the club is/has created a 2 tier fanbase and the divide will only increase - if there is an increase from 160 to 600 tables I will be amazed they fill it!! It could have all been played a bit better but gone too far now - it's all about choosing your side!!

Bandwagon,
Each to his own and all that. Its 600 covers(diners) the new corporate area will accomodate,not tables..The £3million that I quoted refers to the level of income that I think we will get if/when the club returns to the CCC.A figure of £1 million has been quoted by James Brent,for the immediate future,and I think that is a very conservative figure.When you consider,advertising in the stand,naming rights,corporate hospitality on match days,corporate hospitality on non match days,income from bars,entertaining,fan fests,especially first of all when the novelty value kicks in,I think £1million + is very achievable.As for a two tier fan base,that is not how I see it,the fan base is coming together nicely,as was evident at many games last season.

What about the missing 12,000 or so? I am one of them, season ticket holder for ever and I would rather use my money for something else because I think we are having our future stolen from under us by a property developer who has asset stripped the club for financial gain, this is all about Brent not Argyle and he is being aided and abetted by people like you. That is the sad thing, people would rather see the clubs assets stolen rather than think that a big businessman who has repeatedly moved goal posts regarding the development, dumped a school in the ground, thrown hissy fits when questioned and carries on regardless with his plans. My question to you would be, "what's in it for you?"
I can think of no other reason for supporting this scheme unless you are benefiting in some way, in time you and others like you will feel ashamed, probably not but you should do.

Iggy,the days of 38000,28000 attendances are in the past,a bit like standing on the terraces.You could say "What happened to the missing 30,000."Its all pie in the sky. That was back in the seventies and eighties,days long gone.Everything is relative,and today we are in an all seater stadium,at the wrong end of the football league.Asset stripping the club is a bit strong.The ground is back under PCC ownership. which most fans wanted from the outset.The land James Brent is developing was once a derelict piece of ground that was not used by Argyle for decades. As a youngster I can remember Whiteleggs fairground using it.It then became a potholed car park and a place to store disused huts and portacabins left behind by Barr construction.It was never prime parkland.Even the land behind Barn Park is old spoil heaps of one form or another that have been allowed to become overgrown and unsightly.I'm not involved at all with James Brent,not inner circle not even outer circle.Justanotherfan.No underhand agenda,no motives,nothing.I just enjoy a bit of Argyle discussion in what is otherwise a boring couple of months.I support the scheme because I think its good for Argyle.

greensleeves wrote:

the days of 38000,28000 attendances are in the past

They are as long as your beloved brent is here. But just because all your brent can ever deliver on the pitch is failure that doesn't mean a proper owner in the future will too. No, brents ministand must NEVER be built. Only a gullable idiot could believe we can extend the horsehoe at a later date. We get one chance to get this right - build it properly or not at all.

BRENT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!