Players Wages announcement

X Isle wrote:

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On the flip side you continue to have an element of 'uberfans' who are busy self-congratulating themselves and sneerily dismissing anyone who hasn't formed a contingency group, spent every weekend carrying a bucket or has bid £1,000 for a Spain shirt.

A small example was this morning on the farm. I pointed out that the kid who gave all his pocket money to the staff fund was every bit, if not more, generous than the clearly wealthy individual who is busy hoovering up the auction items and that the attempt to have him declared a saint was perhaps a little over the top. It's a question of doing what you can not 'he who does the biggest is king'. But no, despite it being a sensible and correct statement of how we should approach things I get rounded on and now I see the thread has been 'tidied away', all dissention (not that it was at all) has been removed.

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OTHERS EXIST AT ARGYLE

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I don't agree with all I have read on here (such is life....) but the more I read the more p***ed off I am at the behaviour on pasoti. I read that thread with interest. I thought your comment was very reasonable, moderate, interesting and not seriously challenging at all. It made me think of the parable of the widow's mite as well as Milton's "On His Blindness" - "They also serve who only stand and wait" (or something like that). Why the f**k has it been modded out of recognition? All that remains is a paean of praise for the beloved leader and self-congratulatory pats on backs.

funny man wrote:

X Isle wrote:

.........
On the flip side you continue to have an element of 'uberfans' who are busy self-congratulating themselves and sneerily dismissing anyone who hasn't formed a contingency group, spent every weekend carrying a bucket or has bid £1,000 for a Spain shirt.

A small example was this morning on the farm. I pointed out that the kid who gave all his pocket money to the staff fund was every bit, if not more, generous than the clearly wealthy individual who is busy hoovering up the auction items and that the attempt to have him declared a saint was perhaps a little over the top. It's a question of doing what you can not 'he who does the biggest is king'. But no, despite it being a sensible and correct statement of how we should approach things I get rounded on and now I see the thread has been 'tidied away', all dissention (not that it was at all) has been removed.

............


OTHERS EXIST AT ARGYLE

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I don't agree with all I have read on here (such is life....) but the more I read the more p***ed off I am at the behaviour on pasoti. I read that thread with interest. I thought your comment was very reasonable, moderate, interesting and not seriously challenging at all. It made me think of the parable of the widow's mite as well as Milton's "On His Blindness" - "They also serve who only stand and wait" (or something like that). Why the f**k has it been modded out of recognition? All that remains is a paean of praise for the beloved leader and self-congratulatory pats on backs.

Try posting these comments on Pasoti. The level of 'control' these people exert over the forum is only surpassed by their holier than thou denials.

Going back to the original topic of the thread, I'm incredulous that there's been not a peep from anyone on Pasoti (or at least that I have seen) concerning the 17% downpayment of wages owed to staff and players. 17%! For the majority of the staff, that's surely bugger all given the months they've gone without.

Chris has come on here and stated that the FL/PFA are to blame for the insistence that there's no distinction between the percentage rate offered to staff and players, and again not a word of discontent about this have I seen. There was plenty of ire when, rightly in my opinion, the FL slapped a loan transfer ban on the club...

If it's Brent's best offer then so be it, but I'm astonished at the complete lack of dissenting voices. For all the anger about staff not getting paid and the subsequent fund-raising, surely the initial 17% for the staff is a hefty kick in the teeth to all concerned?

Tringreen wrote:

Absolutely correct. Imagine how I feel, banging my head against the Farm door for years to no avail.

It is all so very parochial. They will never change unless someone like a Webb,in whom they seem to trust, drags them to the water.

Chris could do that, he's genuine, his heart is definately in the right place. The Trust elections will be key because there's a couple of people who, if elected, could see me leave. Peter Jones is another who could certainly oversee a broader outreach to the wider Argyle family, his communication and PR was missed massively when he left. He's also been someone who has operated on the wrong side of the happy clappy fence. Post departure he took a good deal of sh1t, some of it from me at the time, he knows there's life outside any notion of a supporters 'inner circle'.

I hate the words 'ordinary' and 'normal', they're generally uttered with condescention. *BUT* if Argyle is to prosper it's not the converted, the tent dwellers, the Farm hands (sic) or the easily herded fans Argyle needs - it's the (ahem) normal folk, the ordinary bhey & buurd that needs to be convinced to come along. You know the sort, the one's who just want to watch a good game of football and the ones who just want their club to represent some values, or have some identity.

I come back to where I started, Chris could drag them to the water. I'd like to think even the most comudgonly (sp?) on here believes in fair play, and credit where it's due to Chris (and can we not just call him by his name?) in terms of 'outreach' beyond PASOTI he DOES keep coming back to this most 'alternative' of sites, he DOES keeps taking the shit on the chin and he DOES still comes back for more, he DOES answer questions and doesn't dress them up with bullsh*t either.

How many other of the 'inner circle' make the effort to do that?. Unity starts with someone reaching out. He's trying to and from my part at least, fair play to him for doing so, it's certainly a millionfold more inclusive than moderating an innocent rational observation because it doesn't fit the 'some fans are better than others' party line............we don't want your sort here, with yer bleddy commie notion of fan equality .

Reading the above, I thought part of the Nikkk thread had been deleted but it looks to have disappeared. Someone doesn't seem happy- I wonder who he's talking about-

Lot's of people Knecht, too right there are.

I see Smiffy, posting on The Freak Show, that there are fans that think themselves as Uberfans and all that sort of sh*t.

Without doubt, there are many hundreds of fans that have help out during these dark days, getting on with their 'stint' without heralding it from any roof tops, then there are those, like me, that seem to be high profile and we come in for a clobbering for that as well.

Each to their own I say.

Funny thing is though, whilst there are hundreds and hundreds that have done their bit, there are also those that have done f*** all, but snipe from the sidelines, those that 'would have but........' that are now creeping from under their stones.

No doubt, they'll be back, moaning about the pasties when we do rise again, I for one, will have nothing but utter contempt for that type of 'fan'.

As I say, each to their own.

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I've copied and pasted just in case IJN has another of his anti-ATD rants deleted again

Nick wrote:

If it's Brent's best offer then so be it, but I'm astonished at the complete lack of dissenting voices.

I'm not astonished. They were warned right from the outset when they started rattling their buckets that the idea of the Ridsdale exercise was to not pay the staff, or at least a big percentage of their wages.
And not one person on that forum has had the courage or interest to ask what happens come 5 years time, when the second half of the owed wages are due in a lump sum ? I know whats going to happen, the club will plead poverty and threaten bankruptcy if that half isn't delayed by another 5 years. If this Pasoti Trust silence is an example of how Chris Webb supports his postal workers, thank god I'm not working for the Post Office.

The staff offer has been conveniently sidestepped, with fans repeating the Brent mantra of it's the best deal on offer ..... bullshit, it's the best offer that Brent is prepared to make given that he is doing deals with the previous owners who will no doubt be far more assertive than the employees have been.
In effect, with inflation and other issues, the employees are being diddled out of at least 20% of their wages. How come Brent said he could pay the staff all their wages 5 months ago, and then ongoing wages, yet now, with only 400K extra racked up by Pand A, apparently he's avoiding prompt payment of some £2.5m back pay ... that doesn't ring true to me, unless Brent originally intended to sack a lot of people back in May. Yet not a peep from Pasoti Trust.

X Isle wrote:

he DOES keep coming back to this most 'alternative' of sites, he DOES keeps taking the shit on the chin and he DOES still comes back for more, he DOES answer questions and doesn't dress them up with bullsh*t either.

+1.

Although sometimes he comes across as very defensive, I appreciate the contributions on here.

I understand where you guys are coming from re Chris Webb but I don't think he has the will to distance the Trust from Pasoti and enable it to become anything more than it currently is.
They have more than enough bucket rattlers and if Brent is the new owner the Trust will stagnate or simply fade away.

I saw him on Spotlight fer the first time today (not been back to Guz for a while meant I didnt realise who he was til I got home and saw on TV).

Better beard than that I can grow.

You may be right regarding PASOTI/Trust. I'm not sure from his comments he really believes in the whole thing once the club is saved.

Cheers for that Ali, hadn't spotted that little gem (PASOTI is pretty much primarily used as a News 24 service now, I look for the headlines but don't follow the links). So there you have it, Argyle is a closed shop to all but the Uberfans.

Funny, I bid a couple of hundred quid for an item the other day. Ian was more than happy to take my money up to a last second bid elsewhere, it now turns out though that he has nothing but utter contempt for all but a tiny inner circle of 'do-ers'. My contributions to the various funds?, the long sometimes lonely campaign of support for Brent when nearly everyone else had jumped ships to Heaney?, the money given enable Albion fans to travel to Fans Reunited?............all worthless, presumably because of an idealogical opposition to funding Ridsdales lifestyle demands in the meantime.

Chris, you've always come over as a down to earth Argyle fan, can't you have a word with Ian and the other Uberfans? (John Petrie being the worst offender so far). We've worked hard (in our own ways) to challenge the lack of values at Argyle and now honesty, integrity, transparency and trust are coming back we discover that quite unbelievably UNITY is actually taking a nosedive .

I've returned now PRFC 125 has been vapourised and a new dawn is rising large on the horizon. l still go irrespective of what Ian thinks of those who raised a moral objection to funding £20k Pete (staff didn't get paid from gate reciepts did they ) but stuff like Ian posted there is going to turn people off, we need everyone to feel inclusive if Argyle is to kick on from this era, not f**k off you're all sh*t.

It's pathetic, simply pathetic .

Mock Cuncher wrote:

I saw him on Spotlight fer the first time today (not been back to Guz for a while meant I didnt realise who he was til I got home and saw on TV).

Better beard than that I can grow.

You may be right regarding PASOTI/Trust. I'm not sure from his comments he really believes in the whole thing once the club is saved.

Despite the fact that I am not yet a member of the Trust, I think it can and should become a permanent and growing fans group.
If it is inclusive and has its own forum, fairly moderated, it could become not only much larger and influential but also the hub of fund raising activities for the likes of the GT's.
It is essential that there is transparency and that any committees and forum moderators are drawn from as broad a spectrum as possible of the club's support.
Who knows when a strong Trust might be needed again and in the meantime, it could be the focal point for not only raising funds for areas like youth development but also maybe eventually, gaining a foothold in the ownership of the club itself.
I believe that a membership of at least 5k is possible, if there is a feelgood factor, which would produce a basic income of £50k a year for starters.

they seem to spend more time boasting about personal finances than talking football on pasoti maybe they should base membership on your income, although i have a loo around on there i know there is no point posting if you disagree with the generals then they unleash there foot soldiers on you i questioned why posty had done such a big u turn on buttivant and what was in it for him and never got a proper reply only lots of abuse and the usual were all working to save this club ect...