Players Wages announcement

So............ A good idea in principle but links to Pasoti should remain in an agreed format. Hmmmmmm............................................

Unless you are totally naive Chris, I would suggest you mean that there will either be no trust forum worth the name[ ie a site for info. only], or that it is run Pasoti style, thereby making the exercise pointless.Why bother, just continue to operate through Pasoti ?

The reality, as always, is that a well moderated Trust forum, which allows open debate and favours neither extreme in disputes, would largely weaken the use of Pasoti and ATD for that matter.

You know as well as I, that it won't happen.

As a result there will be no groundswell towards growing the Trust, outside the Pasoti sphere of influence. They are, in the bigger picture, relatively small in number and only represent a particular general profile of supporter.
With the right, balanced leadership, the Trust should grow to several thousand members but only if all persuasions feel comfortable with the way it operates . That it is indeed a broad church, in action rather than words.

I am curious though Chris.

Why haven't you shown an interest in this fiasco prior to Brent's interest in PAFC?

We've heard month after month from you stating that Bullivant hasn't got any money, what did you read in black and white to give you such 100% certainty?

Why are you not putting pressure on Brent to raise his game a little for the sake of the club?

To be frank Chris, you're coming over as just an agent for Brent, I'm not saying that you are but I am saying that a few eyebrows are being raised at the perception. Maybe you should be concentrating on providing the best deal and survival of the club rather then constantly and "seemingly" fighting Brent's corner. Surely now would be the time to persuade Brent to open his wallet just a little further to meet BG somewhere in the middle, for the sake of the club? How about an email campaign?

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Tringreen wrote:

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Keep thinking, as per normal I'll carry on doing....

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Keep thinking, as per normal I'll carry on doing....

Doing what. Having a beard trim or trying to find out what the real players are up to ?

Tringreen wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Keep thinking, as per normal I'll carry on doing....

Doing what. Having a beard trim or trying to find out what the real players are up to ?

Either would be more than your good self has contributed wouldn't it Tring?!

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Keep thinking, as per normal I'll carry on doing....

Doing what. Having a beard trim or trying to find out what the real players are up to ?

Either would be more than your good self has contributed wouldn't it Tring?!

Ha ha ! Thinking is good. Beats the hell out of running round in circles trying to show what great fans you are, when none of the major players will be influenced in the slightest by the Aviva boys. The way they have milked the situation for months is down to a seemingly compliant fanbase, provided courtesy of the outstanding Pasoti leadership.

No doubt you were 'enjoying the ride' under Stapes too .

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

pepsipete wrote:

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

Yes indeed but I haven't been running round at beerfests, growing beards or brandishing buckets for bleddy months.

pepsipete wrote:

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

And thats something to thank him for?

Tringreen wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

I'm thinking of growing a beard.

Keep thinking, as per normal I'll carry on doing....

Doing what. Having a beard trim or trying to find out what the real players are up to ?

Either would be more than your good self has contributed wouldn't it Tring?!

Ha ha ! Thinking is good. Beats the hell out of running round in circles trying to show what great fans you are, when none of the major players will be influenced in the slightest by the Aviva boys. The way they have milked the situation for months is down to a seemingly compliant fanbase, provided courtesy of the outstanding Pasoti leadership.

No doubt you were 'enjoying the ride' under Stapes too .

Poor old Tringy - keep up the constructive work...... you really add to the debate.

Chris Webb wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

And thats something to thank him for?

Tis as far as I am concerned.

Chris Webb wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

And thats something to thank him for?

It's quite a shame that the old AT site no longer exists.It would be very interesting to go back through the posts on it and compare the opinions expressed therein to "mainstream" thinking that prevailed at the time.I would wager that a goodly percentage of the material was very accurate in forecasting the direction that Argyle were heading,although it was the subject of much derision and vitriol.Maybe there is value in assessing the various points of view on this site and inwardly digesting them,even though they may have been expressed in a manner which could be described as a trifle acerbic.

I'm still intrigued about how Brent is going to operate as owner of the club. He has said that he will keep an eagle-eye on the spending and we will have to live within our means. Sounds good - but what does it mean?

He will make his money on the hotel and car-park developments. The club will have to exist on the income on the gate and the occasional "big money" transfer fee coming in. I can see the faithful getting restive - especially when the amount he is making from the other developments becomes clear. He may be the messiah at the moment (and who am I to quibble - he is the only option at present) but I think fairly soon he will become a very naughty boy.

Greenskin wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

To be fair to Tring without his and Gobs sterling efforts this site would probably not exist.

And thats something to thank him for?

It's quite a shame that the old AT site no longer exists.It would be very interesting to go back through the posts on it and compare the opinions expressed therein to "mainstream" thinking that prevailed at the time.I would wager that a goodly percentage of the material was very accurate in forecasting the direction that Argyle were heading,although it was the subject of much derision and vitriol.Maybe there is value in assessing the various points of view on this site and inwardly digesting them,even though they may have been expressed in a manner which could be described as a trifle acerbic.

Thank you Greenie. They don't listen to you on the farm either, even though your posting style is less confrontational than mine. The very reason I chose to wind them up, in a failed attempt to make them think. Apparently, I might once have been a supporter but now I'm a c*nt and a troll.

The Pasoti led compliance , loyalty, endless optimism and seeming inability to see the bigger picture, is typical of the local hardcore support. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they don't assume leadership positions.

Looking at the bigger picture again, Stapleton and co. were always going to be outclassed at Championship level. He then compounded the slide by cashing in for personal gain with the Japs etc. and then brought in Ridsdale, who brought in Guilfoyle. As a result, the club was never properly marketed and it has been slipping deeper into the mire ever since. Brent may be better than nothing but he sure as hell is no cause for massive celebration.
Throughout all of this the fans leaders have done what exactly .......... raise a few quid to prolong the agony ?'
'The hard working gentlemen', all of them, have stitched the club up like a kipper because we allowed them to.
This is what should have been happening right from the start.

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Brent is probably more reluctant than has been mentioned hitherto, in fact I suspect he has been almost cajolled into it by PCC in line with scaled back plans already half formed under the World Cup. So, clubwise, he'll probably be hands off big time... apart from being the 'central government' in this case tethering the budget, leaving the locals to administer their game.

I think he has said those that are seen to be running the club will be decided on a transparent basis, whatever that means, I dread to think.. Peter Jones and Ridsdale fighting it out ? Powerless token fan involvment ? And I suspect others have grand ideas of the fanbase raising money themselves .... I think those that have shouted loudest in favour of this takeover should put their money where their mouth is, but that'll be the day... few will 'invest' in another Todd share ruse, and it is yet to be seen what this Trust stands for if anything, and how popular a Trust will be outside of the Internet post the sale. Not very, I should imagine.
I can see the messy nature of this settlement causing problems and squabbles, although at least PCC are back in the game. That has to be a good thing.

Not a single club in the FL survives on gate income alone, but Chris doesn't want to tell us about that, it would be a negative slant on Brent!

I wonder if Chris has seen a business plan and a cash flow forecast yet, or is he backing Brent because "there's no one else" and he's a bloody nice bloke. I would imagine that Chris has done his homework and all this is totally viable, he wouldn't be encouraging fans to waste time and money otherwise or the staff to work without pay.

Chris Webb wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Chris Webb wrote:

I will try to cover off the points raised in this thread but it will no doubt cause yet more accusations.

Firstly to Nick – The staff/players will get all they are owed – over a period of time. The details of this have not been shared with the Trust other than they will all be paid in full.

PP – Please don’t play petty games by claiming the Trust supported BIL. We did so in the Cp statements because if we didn’t then Heaney could have had a legal challenge against us / James Brent for the collapse of his bid. In short we had to tactically call him out. We did that, he’s gone and as far as I am concerned its job done. I know you like to re-write history but to intimate that anyone else than JB has had Trust support is laughable. And to reiterate our support for JB was based on the knowledge that in reality the others could never deliver and that he was the ONLY option between us and liquidation.


Chris

Hi Chris

I am not speaking on behalf of PP (and I am sure he will have his say), but in my humble opinion this is why some people have got the hump with the trust.

The action that you have taken against Heaney is clearly the correct one. But we didn't know what you were doing at the time. And I dont just mean us dissidents on ATD. I am sure you could write a book on the cloak and dagger shenanigans that have on over the last few months. But those outside the inner circle have been clueless to it. Don't get me wrong, I understand why there has been secrecy, but we are taking about perceptions here. Like you say above, you did support him publicly. If we had worked out what you were up to, then surely Heaney would of as well?

That is not meant as a criticism as even with hindsight there is no perfect solution.

For me personally I am never going to trust anyone involved in Argyle again. I will always question their actions and their motives. That is not because I am a git, it is because I am not going to be taken for a fool again. Despite what you may think, (and what we may say at times) we know that you, Ian, the GT's and (almost) everyone else has Argyle's best interests at heart. But a few years ago I would have said the same about Stapes, Todd, Gill and even Guilfoyle.

We have to learn from the mistakes of the past. We almost left it too late before people woke up and realised what was happening.*

Love Frank




*Apart from Tring. He may have mentioned it once or twice

Frank

You make some really sound points and I guess with all thats gone on people are loathed to place their trust in anything Argyle related.

All I can say is when this is all over I will certainly look back with a degree of pride.

Didn't spot this first time round as I flicked through.

Firstly, perfectly articulated Frank, I salute that wholeheartedly.

Secondly on the point of 'pride', I too will look back with a huge degree of pride. Pride that I backed JB from the off and never once wavered from that position, even in the face of a considerable amount of personal abuse and emotional blackmail that I was in some way being 'disloyal' in not backing Heaney and Ridsdales carve up.

I want to believe Chris when he says that was the plan all along, and on a personal level I do (I can personally vouch for he, Graham Clark and PJ). The way I see it however I couldn't in all consciousness have risked even the perception of support for AFC Heaney/Ridsdale. I mean imagine if they HAD 'got 'over the line' and we were now facing a future under them. I couldn't live with the shame of having even implied a moments encouragement to them.

Additionally, and taking the wider Trust strategy as gospel, what would THEY have done as the sun rose on the AFC Heaney/Ridsdale era?. Would we have seen an apparent 180 degree U-Turn to outright hostility as the strategy implies?, or would we have seen a muted and meek collaboration?. You see the position taken in the press releases, as well as possibly being a smokescreen to imply support that wasn't there............could also be possible bet hedging, options being kept open for any eventual outcome.

AFC Heaney/Ridsdale DIDN'T happen and we're all united in reflef at that, the victors get to write history though. I just think if truth and reconcilliation is going to break out and unity is to abound the Trust (the wider body, not Chris) will need to reach out beyond the easily convinced happy clappy brigade. Some of us think a little deeper, we look under the carpet not just at the pretty pattern on top. To be a truly representative body the Trust still has work to do and the 'perception' of AFC Heaney/Ridsdale support in our darkest hour is the biggest obstacle they face.

You're wasting your breath Smiffy. They really don't care about the bigger picture.

Some good posting shining through here, how any support could ever go Ridder's way is a mystery to me.

seadog wrote:

Some good posting shining through here, how any support could ever go Ridder's way is a mystery to me.

You'd think that Where's Webby would be well suited to rabble rousing, being a union man.
The rest of the football world know that Ridsdale is a scheming **** but our happy clappy morons think' he's a hard working gentleman', just in case he does get the gig.
Have these people no pride or dignity ?


Who do we want ? !
Ridsdale !!!!!
Where do we want him ?!
Out ! Out ! Out !

Tringreen wrote:

You're wasting your breath Smiffy. They really don't care about the bigger picture.

Some do, some don't I reckon Tring but it's still a massive bugbare for me at the moment, a real blockage to moving on.

The message became muddled and counter objective, causing well meaning individuals to appear to be something they weren't - the perception of being something can be every bit as damning as actually being something.

On the flip side you continue to have an element of 'uberfans' who are busy self-congratulating themselves and sneerily dismissing anyone who hasn't formed a contingency group, spent every weekend carrying a bucket or has bid £1,000 for a Spain shirt.

A small example was this morning on the farm. I pointed out that the kid who gave all his pocket money to the staff fund was every bit, if not more, generous than the clearly wealthy individual who is busy hoovering up the auction items and that the attempt to have him declared a saint was perhaps a little over the top. It's a question of doing what you can not 'he who does the biggest is king'. But no, despite it being a sensible and correct statement of how we should approach things I get rounded on and now I see the thread has been 'tidied away', all dissention (not that it was at all) has been removed.

It's that pig headed Animal Farm attitude (the Orwellian version not the grainy VHS cassette you once saw!) that the Trust need to veer 180 degrees away from. It's not Chris but it exists in some. I know i'm a stubbornly principled old stick but we're striving for unity here and Argyle needs to appeal to a broad constituency, not just a few beards in a tent congratulating themselves on what a wonderfully crafted singlehanded rescue they performed. Carry on like that and it'll soon appear to others that only a very niche supporter demographic is welcome at Home Park. But.........

OTHERS backed the best candidate too.

OTHERS put money in for the staff too.

OTHERS forged contacts and promoted fans re-united and 'go green' too.

OTHERS EXIST AT ARGYLE

Like in 'Lost', the 'others' were demonised, people to be avoided, people the main characters were above, better than, superior to. But eventually they discovered that they needed the help of 'the others' and that they weren't all demons afterall just well meaning individuals trying to live thrive and survive like the main characters.

Absolutely correct. Imagine how I feel, banging my head against the Farm door for years to no avail.

It is all so very parochial. They will never change unless someone like a Webb,in whom they seem to trust, drags them to the water.