Why the exeter boycott?

merse wrote:

Rise wrote:

As highly perverse as this is, I know for a handful there is certainly a ring of truth to that.
I'll happily admit I do only speak for a very small handful of City fans but the opinion around my table pre- and post-match today was that this was a bit of a nothing game (in the context of it being a Devon Derby) and that indeed Torquay is carrying more interest as things stand right now.

Don't shatter the illusion in the village "Rise" they're a BIG CLUB DON'T YOU KNOW so feckin' big they don't need to contest the places in and around the promotion or play off spots, just dice with relegation year after year in the delusion that when they DO go down another level they are indeed even bigger than all around them and far too good to be in that company!

Looking forard to OUR promotion battle with YOU next week!

You should enjoy your current superiority while you can and I suppose it is a sign of our progress that you won't be doubling us again this season. One thing that springs to mind is that neighbouring clubs often thrive and fail in tandem with one another with Newcastle/Sunderland being one example, the Bristols being another, Cardiff/Swansea and the Argyle/Torquay/Exeter triumvirate too. I suppose the success of a club might be a reflection of the wider economy and general vibe in an area.

Welcome Rise.

It certainly lacked the old spark yesterday. I think we're not that bothered because we are utterly gash and it is difficult to get that bothered about the neighbours when your own house is covered in dogshit, and for your lot it's strange and muted because it's a role reversal; you are used to the proud underdog role against the big bad wolf that is Argyle.

As for the citys, Exeter is nice, but also a lot smaller. Plymouth has some bits which are dire but both are actually quite decent when you think of some of the other holes in the country. I'd prefer both to Portsmouth/Soton having lived up here for a few years...

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Rise wrote:

I may well be derided/strung up by fellow City fans for this,

Nah, you are spot on Rise, there just wasn't the buzz about this one, they sold out because they were desperate for the point, we on the other hand are disappointed to drop points to such offal.

Or maybe it's because you lot play shit route one football and can't be fecked with it too? We sold out, only after the tickets went on general sale.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

The only buzz in exeter Tis, is when the chiefs play! the exeter public watch top flight rugby in pleasant surroundings the Siddarome is unfortunately a complete shithole.

Pushing at an open door with me 68, big Chiefs fan, had the great privilege of wearing both shirts as a kid.

Sid JP is a shit hole, but it's our shit hole and we love it, give it me every time over some soulless concrete bowl with 12,000 empty green seats.

You won't have ever had to enjoy the away facilities which are a disgrace in this day and age.

I like the away end at Exeter, and am jealous that they have the big bank whereas we have a fantastic disused terrace covered in weeds from neglect and non-use.

Hugh Watt wrote:

You won't have ever had to enjoy the away facilities which are a disgrace in this day and age.

I guess from that you are more 50 watt than Huge Watt.

FFS man it's a football ground not your fortnights holiday in Benidorm, you have to stand there for 90 minutes plus twenty to queue for a lash, MTFU !

For the record I watched my first ever game from the terrace at the Sid James Road end and revisited hundreds of times, it's a bit of footballing history from a time when football was watched by people with bollocks rather than pussified plastics.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

The only buzz in exeter Tis, is when the chiefs play! the exeter public watch top flight rugby in pleasant surroundings the Siddarome is unfortunately a complete shithole.

Pushing at an open door with me 68, big Chiefs fan, had the great privilege of wearing both shirts as a kid.

Sid JP is a shit hole, but it's our shit hole and we love it, give it me every time over some soulless concrete bowl with 12,000 empty green seats.

You won't have ever had to enjoy the away facilities which are a disgrace in this day and age.

Man up FFS

Thanks all for a warm reception.

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

The only buzz in exeter Tis, is when the chiefs play! the exeter public watch top flight rugby in pleasant surroundings the Siddarome is unfortunately a complete shithole.

Very much an increasing truth. The Chiefs are one of the principle external factors contributing to our continued anchorage where we are and will be for the foreseeable future.

If the egg chasers had remained where they were; playing Division Two (or whatever it is) at the County Ground, we may - just may - have been able to kick on further and consolidate ourselves during our recent glory days. As it is, they got the drop on us completely; they got the development done, they developed the commercial side of the business, they pushed onwards in their league and have got themselves placed as the principle sporting brand in the City; and in doing so have hoovered up the income opportunities and floating support (which is as plastic and fickle as any town in the country), income and support ECFC should/could have been grabbing to aid in their own progresssion. The rise of the Chiefs has capped our own.

As it goes, where as an Exeter - Plymouth game was once the only game in town (so to speak) regardless if that game was played at a rundown half-antiquated stadium, now when the Chiefs are playing at home in their nice shiny stadium at the pinnacle level of their profession on the same day it is going to be a bigger draw for many.

Combine that with the fact that internally, although there are some fantastic individuals at the club, the Committee Culture has put "innovation" on its list of officially banned words, means that we are marooned where we are for a good while yet and assuming the Chiefs maintain the general momentum this gap could well increase.

Its always been said that Exeter is a rugby town. It almost definately is now.

The relevance of this waffle is that 6,500 for the Devon Derby at SJP I fear will be the norm from here on out, baring a miraculous upturn in both of our fortunes.

Its just a joy that this rugby town is (currently) still outperforming the sleeping giant of the South West

As to the quality of the away end, we just feel that we needed to leave something for you to gripe on. We've taken the pecking order. We were worried that if we pressed on with redevelopment and had a decent ground to go with our new status as best team in Devon, it might just tip you over the edge. We're considerate like that.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

You won't have ever had to enjoy the away facilities which are a disgrace in this day and age.

I guess from that you are more 50 watt than Huge Watt.

FFS man it's a football ground not your fortnights holiday in Benidorm, you have to stand there for 90 minutes plus twenty to queue for a lash, MTFU !

For the record I watched my first ever game from the terrace at the Sid James Road end and revisited hundreds of times, it's a bit of footballing history from a time when football was watched by people with bollocks rather than pussified plastics.

When I watch a football match, I'd like to be able to watch the football however shit it is, a roof would be nice and more than one bog would be good too. I could handle any of this if I was getting value for money.

Your ground is a slum, it's not characteristic, it's not cosy it's a slum. Like the ones they knocked down.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Your ground is a slum, it's not characteristic, it's not cosy it's a slum. Like the ones they knocked down.

Oh dear, HUA plastic if ever I saw one.

Look on the bright side Huey, the less you could see of your present team playing the better imho and please bear in mind that we only ripped off our creditors for three and half million, if we had gone the thirteen million you did we could have afforded a stadium that was far too big for our needs and a nice pitch that we couldn't pass the ball on.

Grow a soul man and develop a little humility.

even accrington have a bigger away terrace!!!!!!!

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Your ground is a slum, it's not characteristic, it's not cosy it's a slum. Like the ones they knocked down.

Oh dear, HUA plastic if ever I saw one.

Look on the bright side Huey, the less you could see of your present team playing the better imho and please bear in mind that we only ripped off our creditors for three and half million, if we had gone the thirteen million you did we could have afforded a stadium that was far too big for our needs and a nice pitch that we couldn't pass the ball on.

Grow a soul man and develop a little humility.

Now your just ranting and raving, so l'll spell it out.

One toilet for 2000 supporters. Dorchester have better facilities than you. Still feel smug?

greengenes wrote:

Rise wrote:

Scummer in honest-to-god peace.

Greenjock wrote:

They're obviously saving themselves for the BIG devon derby next week

As highly perverse as this is, I know for a handful there is certainly a ring of truth to that.

I'll happily admit I do only speak for a very small handful of City fans but the opinion around my table pre- and post-match today was that this was a bit of a nothing game (in the context of it being a Devon Derby) and that indeed Torquay is carrying more interest as things stand right now.

Given recent history of what happened with us while we were both slumming it in the Conference; the league games, the play-offs, Bucks moving down and taking a few of the guys with him and consequently given the fact the Turks have been in and around the play-offs for the last few seasons (which is where we are aiming to be) means my own immediate peer-group are/were very much of the opinion that those fixtures are turning out to be of greater interest this season rather than those against the traditional 'enemy'.

I know, I know. It feels bleedy strange even typing it.

Combine that with the fact that we are obviously well aware of what has happened down there with you guys, alot of the pent up frustration was vented two years ago in League 1 and the LDV, your current struggles at the wrong end of the league, and it almost feels like kicking someone when they're down; the general concensus today was that a victory would have been rather hollow against such a weakened club. We want to score our bragging rights fairly, and as strange as it sounds, ideally against an Argyle who are occupying their normal position on the food chain.

I may well be derided/strung up by fellow City fans for this, and please take this post with the respect with which it is intended. I honestly dont mean it to be patronising although I'm well aware that that is how it may come across. Ultimately we do have our small-man syndrome when it comes to the City-Argyle situation, the natural order has been well and truly upset of late through entirely non-footballing reasons, and certainly from my small cluster of City fans we felt that it almost - almost - wasnt a 'proper' City-Argyle derby. Going into this one it just felt wrong.

Get over yourself ! Deluded or what ?

The typical Pasoti response.

Well said Rise and welcome to ATD.

Czarcasm wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Is that Geoffrey's brother?

I used to have an immature loathing of city and not Torquay because they seemed a friendly little club with no troublemakers and didn't seem ti be rivals to us.

Whether it was a few years of not playing each other or just growing up but it's not such a big thing anymore for me. I still don't want city to do well and definitely don't want to lose to them. The bigger thing for me is I used to want Torquay to do well because they were never a danger to us. Now I'm feckin jealous of them and their manager.

How times change eh?

Have to say as well not being a Plymouthian that Exeter is a far nicer city looks wise than Plymouth, which has always come across as pretty drab. Sorry guys!

Away from the waterfront, Plymouth wouldn't win any awards for visual splendour, but believe me, it's like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon compared to the majority of cities of comparable size. The Barbican, Hoe, and now the Royal William Yard are taken for granted by many Plymothians. It's only when visitors come here and stand on the Hoe on a sunny day, or when the sun is setting that they pretty much all sing it's praises.

I'm struggling to think of anything that Exeter has, visually, that is worthy of note. The Cathedral perhaps? Or a middle class Debenhams? (John Lewis)

What does Exeter have?

Clean streets
Roman Walls
A High court
A real University
Pretty girls...they may not be local
A Jail to keep your lot off the streets
100% employment
No boarded up shops or homes
Lots of Money
A football club owned by the fans not one about to be turned into a Car Park/Hotel complex
An International airport
Capital City status
A clean river running through it
No cornish influence and 40 miles away from the sour types that inhabit that dour place
A major train station
A police HQ
A clean Hospital
A major private hospital
8 Private schools
Our own little piece of Plymouth...otherwise known as Sidwell Street
The Met Office (we have our own micro climate...fact)
A Future

I am here all week. The above was said in humour not malice.

There is plenty to like about Plymouth and when I visit which probably 20 times a year I only go to places I like (obviously). Every City has crap areas, the bigger the City the bigger the crap areas and associated problems. see the good in your own City and enjoy it, better to do that than try to pick fault in a City you don't live in.

I haven't mentioned the big problems in Exeter or the really crap areas or the crap nightlife (historic problem by being a Cathedral City...i kid you not), however as I was born here I can slag it off but I will always defend it against those that seek to do the same.

I hate Exeter. I wanted to attend the Teacher Training College which was 90% female........... they wouldn't have me. I went for a job in a school there , after I qualified.........they wouldn't have me either. Bastards !

I think a lucky escape for some. I'm not say who for though!

Hugh Watt wrote:

One toilet for 2000 supporters. Dorchester have better facilities than you. Still feel smug?

Hmmmmm !

Now let me see.

2000 of you, counting not your strong suite either, weak ass, and bladder apparently, Gargs, a goal down at half time to the Mighty ECFC, with only one poo stained crapper between you, and you have to ask if I feel smug about it ?

You really don't get this do you ?

Rise wrote:

Scummer in honest-to-god peace.

Greenjock wrote:

They're obviously saving themselves for the BIG devon derby next week

As highly perverse as this is, I know for a handful there is certainly a ring of truth to that.

I'll happily admit I do only speak for a very small handful of City fans but the opinion around my table pre- and post-match today was that this was a bit of a nothing game (in the context of it being a Devon Derby) and that indeed Torquay is carrying more interest as things stand right now.

Given recent history of what happened with us while we were both slumming it in the Conference; the league games, the play-offs, Bucks moving down and taking a few of the guys with him and consequently given the fact the Turks have been in and around the play-offs for the last few seasons (which is where we are aiming to be) means my own immediate peer-group are/were very much of the opinion that those fixtures are turning out to be of greater interest this season rather than those against the traditional 'enemy'.

I know, I know. It feels bleedy strange even typing it.

Combine that with the fact that we are obviously well aware of what has happened down there with you guys, alot of the pent up frustration was vented two years ago in League 1 and the LDV, your current struggles at the wrong end of the league, and it almost feels like kicking someone when they're down; the general concensus today was that a victory would have been rather hollow against such a weakened club. We want to score our bragging rights fairly, and as strange as it sounds, ideally against an Argyle who are occupying their normal position on the food chain.

I may well be derided/strung up by fellow City fans for this, and please take this post with the respect with which it is intended. I honestly dont mean it to be patronising although I'm well aware that that is how it may come across. Ultimately we do have our small-man syndrome when it comes to the City-Argyle situation, the natural order has been well and truly upset of late through entirely non-footballing reasons, and certainly from my small cluster of City fans we felt that it almost - almost - wasnt a 'proper' City-Argyle derby. Going into this one it just felt wrong.

IMO there is nothing so tedious as supporters sneering at each other over attendances. A lot of our fans used to have digs at the smaller Conference clubs for being "tinpot" and it always made me cringe and consider the irony of supporters of a club with an average of around 4'000, laughing at a club with an average of around 1'000 - the phrase "two bald men fighting over a comb" springs immediately to mind.

It seems to me that's equally true of the OP and Plymouth attendances versus those of Exeter - after all your support is hardly stellar, considering the greater size of the City and your time spent in the second tier of English football. Bradford are dwarfing your attendances, Rotherham are also doing better and your crowds are not hugely better than any of the top 6 or 7 attendances in this League. Of course this has been affected by events, but the likes of Oxford have had serious problems in the recent past as well.

In any case I always had far greater admiration for the likes of the single carload of Leigh RMI fans who came to SJP for a night game, in crappy weather, with little serious prospect of a win and nothing to play for. They didn't even have the buzz of being with a load of kindred spirits, seeing familiar faces, singing or being amused by the singers and so on. That's real dedication in my book.

A lot of what Rise says is spot on - particularly his point about the legacy of battling it out with Torquay and our incredible comeback in the Playoff Semi-Final against them. The context Rise touched on was important as well - Torquay's runaway start to our promotion season while we were our usual early season strugglers; their free spending and poaching of our players; the contrast between Buckle's hoofball and our attractive football; the capacity crowd Boxing day game when Mackie destroyed them and so on. Of course the fact that at the moment matches against Torquay have more meaning in the context of our respective end-of-season ambitions is certainly a factor.

I think you also have to consider the passage of time, which means that many younger supporters have little experience of the derby. I spoke to an eighteen year old who wasn't even attending matches in our first Conference season, which surprised me until I realised he was probably only around eight or nine at the time. I would say that in general, for older supporters like myself, our derby is still far more intense and meaningful in and of itself. In fact for that reason I enjoy the Torquay game more. While losing to them isn't exactly fun, it isn't nearly as devastating as losing to you, which makes the experience of watching the games against you an exercise in extreme anxiety and not really enjoyable unless we win - and even then it's only fun after the match.

There's also some truth in a certain amount of sympathy taking the edge off for the time being - at least among those of us who hate to see any football club nearly go under and who loathe the idea of rich businessmen taking clubs and supporters for a ride. It's also the case that some people recognise that it does none of us any good to have any Devon club in a moribund state, given the handicap we all experience from the way in which Devon is seen as a backwater by the football world. It seems self-evident that if all three of us were regularly fighting it out in the Championship instead of League 2, then the profile of Devon football and the associated benefits that brings would cause a paradigm shift for the perception and profile of the County among other players, fans, sponsors and the media. Of course there were some supporters gloating at what seemed to be your imminent demise, but I can assure you that I was not the only one who remonstrated with such people. In the same way there were Argyle fans who both gloated when we nearly went under, but also those who joined our Trust in solidarity.

The point about it not seeming like a real derby due to the state of yoy club is also well made. Of course I want to thrash and Argyle side out of sight, but a victory would be a little more hollow in the current circumstances. Beating an Argyle whose fans are almost giving up before the game pales in comparison with beating an Argyle whose fans are giving it large about the thrashing we're going to receive.

The Red Star wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Is that Geoffrey's brother?

I used to have an immature loathing of city and not Torquay because they seemed a friendly little club with no troublemakers and didn't seem ti be rivals to us.

Whether it was a few years of not playing each other or just growing up but it's not such a big thing anymore for me. I still don't want city to do well and definitely don't want to lose to them. The bigger thing for me is I used to want Torquay to do well because they were never a danger to us. Now I'm feckin jealous of them and their manager.

How times change eh?

Have to say as well not being a Plymouthian that Exeter is a far nicer city looks wise than Plymouth, which has always come across as pretty drab. Sorry guys!

Away from the waterfront, Plymouth wouldn't win any awards for visual splendour, but believe me, it's like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon compared to the majority of cities of comparable size. The Barbican, Hoe, and now the Royal William Yard are taken for granted by many Plymothians. It's only when visitors come here and stand on the Hoe on a sunny day, or when the sun is setting that they pretty much all sing it's praises.

I'm struggling to think of anything that Exeter has, visually, that is worthy of note. The Cathedral perhaps? Or a middle class Debenhams? (John Lewis)

What does Exeter have?

Clean streets
Roman Walls
A High court
A real University
Pretty girls...they may not be local
A Jail to keep your lot off the streets
100% employment
No boarded up shops or homes
Lots of Money
A football club owned by the fans not one about to be turned into a Car Park/Hotel complex
An International airport
Capital City status
A clean river running through it
No cornish influence and 40 miles away from the sour types that inhabit that dour place
A major train station
A police HQ
A clean Hospital
A major private hospital
8 Private schools
Our own little piece of Plymouth...otherwise known as Sidwell Street
The Met Office (we have our own micro climate...fact)
A Future

And the lowest percentage of empty shops in the country, as well as one of the economies least affected by the recession.

Quote :

Every City has crap areas, the bigger the City the bigger the crap areas and associated problems. see the good in your own City and enjoy it, better to do that than try to pick fault in a City you don't live in.

I haven't mentioned the big problems in Exeter or the really crap areas or the crap nightlife (historic problem by being a Cathedral City...i kid you not), however as I was born here I can slag it off but I will always defend it against those that seek to do the same.

Quite true. However in my experience most neutrals - and even some Plymothians - admit that out of the two of us, Exeter is the city which is currently in a significantly healthier state, as even the Plymouth-loving Spotlight reported, in their recent comparison of the cities after the opening of John Lewis.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

merse wrote:

Rise wrote:

As highly perverse as this is, I know for a handful there is certainly a ring of truth to that.
I'll happily admit I do only speak for a very small handful of City fans but the opinion around my table pre- and post-match today was that this was a bit of a nothing game (in the context of it being a Devon Derby) and that indeed Torquay is carrying more interest as things stand right now.

Don't shatter the illusion in the village "Rise" they're a BIG CLUB DON'T YOU KNOW so feckin' big they don't need to contest the places in and around the promotion or play off spots, just dice with relegation year after year in the delusion that when they DO go down another level they are indeed even bigger than all around them and far too good to be in that company!

Looking forard to OUR promotion battle with YOU next week!

You should enjoy your current superiority while you can and I suppose it is a sign of our progress that you won't be doubling us again this season. One thing that springs to mind is that neighbouring clubs often thrive and fail in tandem with one another with Newcastle/Sunderland being one example, the Bristols being another, Cardiff/Swansea and the Argyle/Torquay/Exeter triumvirate too. I suppose the success of a club might be a reflection of the wider economy and general vibe in an area.

The North-East comparison is interesting. I've always thought that there was an analogy to be made there.

- Plymouth is the Newcastle of Devon; i.e the historically more succesful club from the biggest city, with a sectionof supporters who have a somewhat inflated idea of the true potential of the club and unrealistic expectations of success as a result. Their supporters see the club in the second biggest city in the area as their main rivals, with relatively benign feelings towards the smallest club in the area.

- Exeter is the Sunderland of the area; the club from the second biggest city, again with some supporters who have similarly unrealistic expectations. They see their historically more successful and larger neighbour as their main rivals, with relatively benign feelings towards the smallest club in the area. (They even play in red-and-white stripes).

- Torquay are the Middlesborough of the region; the smallest city and club, but this time with supporters who have commendably realistic ideas about their true place. They see the other two as their main rivals (although some Torquay fans seem to hate us and see us alone as their main rivals, while not having particularly intense feelings towards you).

The reason that you lot can't sell out SJP is that you have now evolved into a totally plastic city, with all the well paid jobs came the downsizers from the more affluent parts of the country. Simply put half of your population comes from other climes, they are the ones filling the rugby ground, they are not interested in lower league football, you are fooked as a football team, you will always struggle to get above 6 k fans. We on the other hand will get the fans back when the club is run properly again, I can't fooking wait.

Rise wrote:

Thanks all for a warm reception.

Sufferedsince68 wrote:

The only buzz in exeter Tis, is when the chiefs play! the exeter public watch top flight rugby in pleasant surroundings the Siddarome is unfortunately a complete shithole.

Very much an increasing truth. The Chiefs are one of the principle external factors contributing to our continued anchorage where we are and will be for the foreseeable future.

They're a factor, but I wouldn't say it was a principal one. I haven't noticed a significant change in our average since the Chiefs went bigtime and I seem to recall a certain amount of dismay at supposed low attendances recently, given their success.

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If the egg chasers had remained where they were; playing Division Two (or whatever it is) at the County Ground, we may - just may - have been able to kick on further and consolidate ourselves during our recent glory days...

Again, I think you're overstating this. There are undoubtedly a few former casual City fans (or probably more correctly attendees) who've defected, but it seems to me that the Chief's plastics I know were never City fans in the first place.

Quote :

As it is, they got the drop on us completely; they got the development done, they developed the commercial side of the business, they pushed onwards in their league...

They got the development done because they weren't shafted by a pair of crooks and an incompetent redevelopment. They were therefore able to sell the County Ground for £20 million odd IIRC - we sold SJP in desperation for peanuts.

Quote :

and have got themselves placed as the principle sporting brand in the City; and in doing so have hoovered up the income opportunities and floating support (which is as plastic and fickle as any town in the country), income and support ECFC should/could have been grabbing to aid in their own progresssion. The rise of the Chiefs has capped our own...

The Chiefs have a swanky, purpose-built ground, away from fractious residents, with easy motorway and rail access and are playing in the Premier competition in their sport and the associated European League. I believe they have international players, with at least one England International. (I don't follow rugby closely). Furthermore, they play in a region that is arguably one of the main powerhouses of their sport. It's self-evident that they would be in pole position against a club playing in the bottom two divisions in their sport (and for a time in non-league) with a bunch of players that nobody has ever heard of or who are long past their best, in a far-away area of which the rest of the football world knows nothing and cares less.

The Chiefs receive national media coverage and are on television regularly, whereas we get three minutes a week on the Football League show. Under those circumstances we could never hope to have matched the Chiefs in attracting floating support and commercial opportunities - especially since East Devon and Exeter is an area that has attracted many "immigrants" from other parts of the country with no allegiance to the city, many of whom are professional and affluent and hardly the sort of people willing to sit in a half-finished ground watching Exeter v Accrington Stanley with the hoi-polloi. I don't accept that they got the drop on us in the sense you mean, although I agree that the ECFC commercial department seems somewhat lacking to say the least. I guarantee that in some surreal parallel universe, where we are in the Premier League as well, we are beating the Chiefs hand over fist, commercial department or no commercial department.

Quote :

Combine that with the fact that internally, although there are some fantastic individuals at the club, the Committee Culture has put "innovation" on its list of officially banned words, means that we are marooned where we are for a good while yet and assuming the Chiefs maintain the general momentum this gap could well increase....

It's not the "comittee culture", if by that you mean Trust ownership per se, rather than the vagaries of the way our Trust is currently being run and the attitude of certain individuals (or at least that's what I hear). There are vast numbers of examples of privately owned clubs worldwide where "innovation" is also on a list of officially banned words - along with "competence" and "integrity" to boot. According to Deloittes two-thirds of (the privately owned) clubs in the Football League are technically insolvent. By contrast, there are numerous examples of successful supporter-owned or part supporter owned clubs - for example, the former is the norm in Brazil and the latter in Germany

Neither do I accept that we are currently marooned anywhere. Our historic position (at least since the seventies) is generally mid-to bottom of the bottom tier, often flirting with non-league and with the odd season in the third tier. Were it not for the unfair system of re-election and Stevenage not getting their act together, we would have been in non-League years before we were - that was all under private ownership. I don't see any great difference than today - in fact our recent era is arguably one of our most successful.

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Its always been said that Exeter is a rugby town. It almost definately is now.

It's a rugby area. That is certainly the way it's seen among people I know here in London anyway.

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The relevance of this waffle is that 6,500 for the Devon Derby at SJP I fear will be the norm from here on out, baring a miraculous upturn in both of our fortunes.

Maybe - although I think everybody has completely ignored the fact that we are currently in a savage recession. People are having to make difficult choices and food, bills and clothing are people's priorities. Justifying the best part of £20-odd to watch fourth-tier football is a tough ask - especially when it's Christmas and we have a glut of home games.

Quote :

Its just a joy that this rugby town is (currently) still outperforming the sleeping giant of the South West

Preach on, brother. Long may it last!

Iggy wrote:

The reason that you lot can't sell out SJP is that you have now evolved into a totally plastic city, with all the well paid jobs came the downsizers from the more affluent parts of the country. Simply put half of your population comes from other climes, they are the ones filling the rugby ground, they are not interested in lower league football...

True

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...you are fooked as a football team.

Not true. Our potential attendances are adequate for us to improve on our historic position. Unlike many of your fans I don't have delusions of playing in the Premier League (which I would never want anyway).

Quote :

...you will always struggle to get above 6 k fans. We on the other hand will get the fans back when the club is run properly again, I can't fooking wait.

It seems to me that your attendances have never been particularly spectacular, especially given the size of your city and the level you played at - Norwich had something like a 20'000 attendance in League 1 for example.

It's obvious you would get a bounce in support if you turned things around and that you should expect to be above the level you are. However I suspect that with the Reluctant Bidder in charge, getting there might take longer than you think. It seems to me that your support was always somewhat soft and fair-weather in the first place, so the damage a period of Brent-inspired "consolidation" might do could well be permanent - paradigm shifts in the fortunes of a club are hardly unknown.

I suspect that by the time you get out from under your current difficulties there will be an even more radical paradigm shift in the top two levels of English football. I suspect there will no longer be a Premier League as we know it in the fullness of time, given the increasingly loud noises the big clubs in Europe are making about a Super-League and the irritation among their money men about the revenue implications of that pesky relegation, or having to regularly play the great unwashed top division minnows like Wigan et al. That will lead to a trickle down effect of historically medium large clubs and those who've been doped by the riches of the former Premier League, but who aren't on the guest list of the big boys' party, largely locking up the next tier down.

I'm afraid that IMO you squandered your best chance with Holloway and it will never come back. Unless you get rid of the Reluctant Bidder quickly, the future may well be the top of League 1, with the odd season a tier above.

You may well be correct Jabba. We did have our latest chance again with Holloway but even then personal greed and self promotion took over.
It may now be too many decades down the road but as Greenskin oft points out, we were at least as well supported as the likes of Norwich , Southampton and Ipswich before they gained 'lift off' through top flight exposure. Once a region has belief and the T shirt, so to speak, the fans keep coming back. I warned as much when our now superfans were laughing at the struggles of the likes of Norwich , Forest, Leeds and the Saints when we were cruising along under Holloway. They silenced warning voices then and they're still trying to do the same now.
Every passing decade and missed opportunity makes a spell in the top flight more difficult to achieve.
As long as we get rid of the dimwits and their banker, the club will rise again and maybe, just maybe, the potential will be realised, if someone with enough cash to burn , recognises it and buys in.

Tringreen wrote:

You may well be correct Jabba. We did have our latest chance again with Holloway but even then personal greed and self promotion took over.
It may now be too many decades down the road but as Greenskin oft points out, we were at least as well supported as the likes of Norwich , Southampton and Ipswich before they gained 'lift off' through top flight exposure. Once a region has belief and the T shirt, so to speak, the fans keep coming back. I warned as much when our now superfans were laughing at the struggles of the likes of Norwich , Forest, Leeds and the Saints when we were cruising along under Holloway. They silenced warning voices then and they're still trying to do the same now.
Every passing decade and missed opportunity makes a spell in the top flight more difficult to achieve.
As long as we get rid of the dimwits and their banker, the club will rise again and maybe, just maybe, the potential will be realised, if someone with enough cash to burn , recognises it and buys in.

I've mentioned it once or twice. In fact i did a spreadsheet averaging out the post war crowds of Argyle and many of the clubs who have since overtaken us [Saints,Palace,Coventry,Norwich,Ipswich etc] and put it on the old Argyle Talk,but as you know,that avenue of information is now long gone.As is the spreadsheet itself-disappeared when my computer crashed earlier this year.Can't be arsed to do another one but the contrast was stark between the consitent high level of the gates of those clubs before they reached the top flight for the first time and after,as was the decline in Argyle's gates from the 1960's onwards when the consistent downturn in playing fortunes really kicked in.It's all there for those with eyes to see and an open,interpretive mind,though.

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