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Greenjock wrote:

Well I don't think the win yesterday proves anything much except maybe Griffiths looks like he could easily cut it for us and again that bhasera is a better attacking wide man than full back, and also a better wide man than our supposed wingers.

For me it also demonstrated that at home we need to be more attacking. I hope Fletcher takes note. Ee shouldn't be sitting back trying to pinch points off of dogshit teams. Get at them ffs.

I was worried that we would lose pluckily on Tuesday and be knackered yesterday but luckily Northampton had even less recovery time than us.

I reckon Torquay away then the next two home games will give a better indication of how the season may pan out.

Still not convinced by Fletcher but am happy we won and happy to give him the benefit of the doubt over yesterday's tactics.

His new found tatical genius label some have bestowed on him will be tested against Torquay. That will be the real test. Like you i am happy with the win of course but im not getting carried away thinking we will win the league now like i have also seen some proclaim.

please tell me we havent JUST worked out that bhasera is better at left midfield than left back ????
Some of us were saying this in 2010 FFS.

A run of good form will be required to cause doubters (like myself) to reconsider.
I ate humble pie last season when CF kept us up, it is FAR from certain (whether we'd beaten Northampton or not) whether humble pie is on the menu once again.......

I didn't say Argyle were heading for promotion and I'm not sure I read that in any other positive post either. What was actually said and then exagerated by those who don't want to see anything positive is that IF Argyle can replicate the second half then they will be ok at the least. Nobody that I've read has said that Fletcher has suddenly become a tactical genius. What was said is that his changes of tactics and substitutions yesterday proved to be right and the team on the pitch improved. This was a fact and not a greentinted appraisal. When he gets it wrong then fine, give him a kicking but if he gets it right, even if it's a rare thing then he should at the least get praise for that match.

How people who don't see a game can give any kind of real opinion on how the match went is beyond me over and above those that were there. The first half was pants, both teams were pants not just one. The second half was like a transformation and the difference was stark. Fact not fiction or an opinion from an armchair somewhere in the universe. This wasn't a lucky victory it was a win on the day. Next match they may revert and both Fletcher and the team could be total pants again. Who knows and if they are and I witness a load of crap I will say it is a load of crap. I don't see anyone here getting carried away with a single win.

Sensible I didn't go and had to make do with commentary and the BBC text updates but it sounded like we really went for them after halftime and that's why we won.

Not just mindless gung-ho all bombing forward, but coordinated attractive attacking football. That's what a couple of my friends who went also reported.

Whether it was fortunate due to the injuries or good management by Fletcher, it must have been great to see that at home? Do you think Fletcher will play like that regularly now or revert to type?

Chemical Ali wrote:

For a big lad he was still pretty quick. The illuminous green kit didn't flatter him though!

The Hackney Barra' Boy has his own fashion business:

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Got mine ~ get yours!

That's the big question Jock. We just don't know what he will do next. The next one is away so is it going to be the old chestnut of setting a team up to try not to lose or will it be an attempt to actually get 3 points from it. If the laymen amongst us could see that the change led to a huge improvement then surely Fletcher will have seen that as well. Your friends are right. There wasn't any kick and rush or hoofing it around. It was decent passing and flowing football at times, not all of it but certainly it was there. For all the slagging Griffiths has had because he is 32 and has only played league of Wales, he was genuinely a class act when he came on. It was gut wrenching when it only lasted a short time. Griffiths looked like he had been playing in the league for years. His touch on the ball was first class and his finish was something we have been dreaming for. Somebody who gets on the end of a ball and strokes it home without any fuss. He must have thought it was real easy playing in this league. He won't do it every week but I'm convinced he will do it often. Argyle haven't suddenly turned into Barca or Arsenal or whatever but the seeds are there for much better than we have seen over recent years. Should also point out that this is 4 points out of 4 games and not 1 point out of 9. However you dress it up it is a better start than last term.

Away I understand more, but at home we should be the aggressor against anyone in this league.

Genuinely pleased for Griffiths, I think he will score regularly and now Macs back, our strike force looks a lot more menacing.

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I didn't say Argyle were heading for promotion and I'm not sure I read that in any other positive post either. What was actually said and then exagerated by those who don't want to see anything positive is that IF Argyle can replicate the second half then they will be ok at the least. Nobody that I've read has said that Fletcher has suddenly become a tactical genius. What was said is that his changes of tactics and substitutions yesterday proved to be right and the team on the pitch improved. This was a fact and not a greentinted appraisal. When he gets it wrong then fine, give him a kicking but if he gets it right, even if it's a rare thing then he should at the least get praise for that match.

How people who don't see a game can give any kind of real opinion on how the match went is beyond me over and above those that were there. The first half was pants, both teams were pants not just one. The second half was like a transformation and the difference was stark. Fact not fiction or an opinion from an armchair somewhere in the universe. This wasn't a lucky victory it was a win on the day. Next match they may revert and both Fletcher and the team could be total pants again. Who knows and if they are and I witness a load of crap I will say it is a load of crap. I don't see anyone here getting carried away with a single win.

1. Why are the views you agree with facts? Sounds a bit arrogant to me.

2. Why dismiss the views of those who dare not to attend games? Could this have anything to do with the fact that several posters who seem to irritate you on here cannot/refuse to go to games? Did you know that there are match reports and commentaries which allow people to get a pretty good impression of what happened? If you can't accept that people who didn't go to the game can comment upon it, please God maybe you should stop commenting on here.

3. In his match report, Cobi associated the word genius with CF. So have you 'conveniently' not read that piece or have you equally conveniently forgotten it?

4. If you witness a load of crap you will say so? Yeah, excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for that...

charleymouse wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

I didn't say Argyle were heading for promotion and I'm not sure I read that in any other positive post either. What was actually said and then exagerated by those who don't want to see anything positive is that IF Argyle can replicate the second half then they will be ok at the least. Nobody that I've read has said that Fletcher has suddenly become a tactical genius. What was said is that his changes of tactics and substitutions yesterday proved to be right and the team on the pitch improved. This was a fact and not a greentinted appraisal. When he gets it wrong then fine, give him a kicking but if he gets it right, even if it's a rare thing then he should at the least get praise for that match.

How people who don't see a game can give any kind of real opinion on how the match went is beyond me over and above those that were there. The first half was pants, both teams were pants not just one. The second half was like a transformation and the difference was stark. Fact not fiction or an opinion from an armchair somewhere in the universe. This wasn't a lucky victory it was a win on the day. Next match they may revert and both Fletcher and the team could be total pants again. Who knows and if they are and I witness a load of crap I will say it is a load of crap. I don't see anyone here getting carried away with a single win.

1. Why are the views you agree with facts? Sounds a bit arrogant to me.
EVerybody who was there and posted, seems to agree with this as a statement of fact. You are being amazingly picky

2. Why dismiss the views of those who dare not to attend games? Could this have anything to do with the fact that several posters who seem to irritate you on here cannot/refuse to go to games? Did you know that there are match reports and commentaries which allow people to get a pretty good impression of what happened? If you can't accept that people who didn't go to the game can comment upon it, please God maybe you should stop commenting on here.
These folks for the most part (certainly most I've seen) are commenting straight away and don't refer to any references to the match

3. In his match report, Cobi associated the word genius with CF.Think you were whooshed there, mild irony. So have you 'conveniently' not read that piece or have you equally conveniently forgotten it?

And what reports have you read or heard from

4. If you witness a load of crap you will say so? Yeah, excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for that...

I'm sure he would. SG probably isn't as well balanced as you, you seem to have a chip on both shoulders

Renegade wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Well I don't think the win yesterday proves anything much except maybe Griffiths looks like he could easily cut it for us and again that bhasera is a better attacking wide man than full back, and also a better wide man than our supposed wingers.

For me it also demonstrated that at home we need to be more attacking. I hope Fletcher takes note. Ee shouldn't be sitting back trying to pinch points off of dogshit teams. Get at them ffs.

I was worried that we would lose pluckily on Tuesday and be knackered yesterday but luckily Northampton had even less recovery time than us.

I reckon Torquay away then the next two home games will give a better indication of how the season may pan out.

Still not convinced by Fletcher but am happy we won and happy to give him the benefit of the doubt over yesterday's tactics.

His new found tatical genius label some have bestowed on him will be tested against Torquay. That will be the real test. Like you i am happy with the win of course but im not getting carried away thinking we will win the league now like i have also seen some proclaim.

Can you give us the names of people you have seen say we will win the league ? pretty please .

Oh go on Charleymouse please do hold your breath because it seems you just want an argument from me and I'm not going to bite.

People on here have ventured an opinion without seeing. If you got hit by a car and somebody around the corner who only got to the scene after the event said you just walked out and you hadn't would you be please with that "witness" or would you prefer the account of the people stood on the pavement next to the crash? Comment away by all means but it is less informed than people who have witnessed it which must be pretty obvious even to somebody who just wants an argument.

Cobi's use of the word genius in my opinion did not actually say he thought Fletcher had suddenly become one in reality. I don't think anyone in football terms thinks that a manager will win Mastermind because they made the right moves at the right time. I take it to mean good move. I don't think cobi said that Fletcher had suddenly become manager of the year. Hence the comments.


I could not care less if people attend or don't. Up to them and I've always said that. If Argyle have been poor then I have said they were poor. Contrary to some belief I don't actually wear blinkers of any tint. Yesterday, second half, they improved greatly. Fact. Sorry to disappoint but it absolutely really is one. Anyway, another post for you to dissect.

I was just trying to point out that on a site where we discuss things, it seems a bit pointless to state that anyone's view are facts, irrespective of how many people agree with them.

When I mentioned Cobi's report, it was only to point out that someone had used the word genius about CF. It comes as no surprise to learn that you have found a way in your head to make this 'not count'. For someone who claims not to care whether people attend or not, you certainly spend a lot of time trying to undermine such people's worthiness to comment on Argyle.

I'm sorry if you don't like me 'dissecting' your posts. I find that preferable to the way some people just cherry-pick one phrase and only address that. I prefer to look at all of the points someone has made.

Shonbo, I thought that having a chip on one's shoulder was a requirement to post here! I'll tell you what I would like though: A discussion with someone who disagrees with me where said opponent doesn't feel the need to extrapolate and make assumptions about me as a person. That would be great.

Charley LOL
Failed to answer my question.
And have you found any reports that differ from the one's on here about the match?

I do apologise Shonbo. I have spoken to a couple of mates who were at the match, one of whom agreed that Argyle improved greatly due to Fletcher's decisions, and another who used the word 'lucky' or various synonyms about 20 in 2 minutes (I suspect he might have been drinking...). The Northampton manager, from his words on the BBC website, appeared to entirely blame his own side for the turnaround. Just goes to show that in football, facts are rare, opinions are many and perspective is they key!

Not at all Charleymouse, dissect away, and I was if you like to be proper in interpretation, inviting you to do so. My interpretation of Cobi's comment was as stated not any attempt to re-write it. Cobi can answer for himself if it was meant to mean Fletcher is a genius in any genuine thought or not. I just didn't read it that way.

My comments haven't been to undermine people who don't go and if you want to be pedantic about what people say I think you might find the odd comment deriding people who stay away and comment but the vast majority of times I have acknowledged it is their choice. To comment on how a game went in reality as some sort of authoritative assessment when it is only from second hand information just seems a tad bizaar to me and yes I would say that having gone myself my assessment would have been a bit more informed. Did you go by the way and if so what did you think as you have only commented on the comments and not the match itself?

Before pressing send I notice you have said you weren't there so my question above is a bit irrelevent. One observation about Mr Boothroyd though is that he would say that wouldn't he. He is hardly likely to heap praise on either Argyle or Fletcher for out thinking him on the day and the players outplaying his. But you can always rely on the opposing manager to be humble of course and gracious in defeat. I didn't notice much in the way of luck in the result either.

I'm unlikely to be attending any matches. £20 a ticket is massively steep, but if you add in the train to Roscoff and the ferry prices, it gets a bit ridiculous

In fairness, opposition managers do quite often give out praise to their adversaries. After all, if the opposition played well, it can be a way of absolving your own players of blames and preventing their confidence from taking a knock. Boothroyd's status as manager of Northampton is why I mentioned perspective being the key; if you acknowledge this then it seems logical that genuine facts are pretty rare in football.

One of the fun bits that FZ got into yesterday - other than the chants about Akinfenwa - was baiting Boothroyd. Whereas Akinfenwa responded, Boothroyd ignored it completely.

This spontaneous stuff from FZ was the good bit about them. The bloody drummer could have been improved by taking his drum away.

greengenes wrote:

Renegade wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Well I don't think the win yesterday proves anything much except maybe Griffiths looks like he could easily cut it for us and again that bhasera is a better attacking wide man than full back, and also a better wide man than our supposed wingers.

For me it also demonstrated that at home we need to be more attacking. I hope Fletcher takes note. Ee shouldn't be sitting back trying to pinch points off of dogshit teams. Get at them ffs.

I was worried that we would lose pluckily on Tuesday and be knackered yesterday but luckily Northampton had even less recovery time than us.

I reckon Torquay away then the next two home games will give a better indication of how the season may pan out.

Still not convinced by Fletcher but am happy we won and happy to give him the benefit of the doubt over yesterday's tactics.

His new found tatical genius label some have bestowed on him will be tested against Torquay. That will be the real test. Like you i am happy with the win of course but im not getting carried away thinking we will win the league now like i have also seen some proclaim.

Can you give us the names of people you have seen say we will win the league ? pretty please .

i can but i think its easier to just go on pasoti

Charley I guess you must live in Guincamp,St Brieuc, St Malo,Rennes....am I close...bit of a francophile you see.

Renegade wrote:

greengenes wrote:

Renegade wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

Well I don't think the win yesterday proves anything much except maybe Griffiths looks like he could easily cut it for us and again that bhasera is a better attacking wide man than full back, and also a better wide man than our supposed wingers.

For me it also demonstrated that at home we need to be more attacking. I hope Fletcher takes note. Ee shouldn't be sitting back trying to pinch points off of dogshit teams. Get at them ffs.

I was worried that we would lose pluckily on Tuesday and be knackered yesterday but luckily Northampton had even less recovery time than us.

I reckon Torquay away then the next two home games will give a better indication of how the season may pan out.

Still not convinced by Fletcher but am happy we won and happy to give him the benefit of the doubt over yesterday's tactics.

His new found tatical genius label some have bestowed on him will be tested against Torquay. That will be the real test. Like you i am happy with the win of course but im not getting carried away thinking we will win the league now like i have also seen some proclaim.

Can you give us the names of people you have seen say we will win the league ? pretty please .

i can but i think its easier to just go on pasoti

nice one

I genuinely haven't seen one person on pasoti (or in fact on any medium at all) who thinks we'll go up, never mind win the league.

I like having debates but sometimes I feel people (on both sides) distort the opposite side of the debate to an unfair caricature of itself, meaning little meaningful debate actually ends up happening. Surely we can argue with what the other side of the debate is actually saying, rather than a vastly exaggerared and distorted version of it?

GreenSam wrote:

I genuinely haven't seen one person on pasoti (or in fact on any medium at all) who thinks we'll go up, never mind win the league.

I like having debates but sometimes I feel people (on both sides) distort the opposite side of the debate to an unfair caricature of itself, meaning little meaningful debate actually ends up happening. Surely we can argue with what the other side of the debate is actually saying, rather than a vastly exaggerared and distorted version of it?

Here here

This was the most recent pasoti poll I could find on final league positions-

Automatic promotion 4% [ 5 ]
Play-offs 10% [ 12 ]
8th to 12th 32% [ 37 ]
13th - 18th 44% [ 51 ]
19th - 21st 8% [ 9 ]
Relegated 1% [ 1 ]

115 voted

I wonder how many wanted to vote for 22nd but were shafted by the lack of option...

GreenSam wrote:

I genuinely haven't seen one person on pasoti (or in fact on any medium at all) who thinks we'll go up, never mind win the league.

I like having debates but sometimes I feel people (on both sides) distort the opposite side of the debate to an unfair caricature of itself, meaning little meaningful debate actually ends up happening. Surely we can argue with what the other side of the debate is actually saying, rather than a vastly exaggerared and distorted version of it?

If you frequent any non-sanitised football site that is raucous or edgy, you'll find that that is a lot of what they're about. It isn't a debating society.

Banter, mid-level insults and condescending put-downs* are the rule rather than the exception. As you grow up, you'll understand*.

*see?