Luke McCormick

The driving force behind 'the law' is order and control, not justice. If one wants that, one has to find it apart from the law. To be in any way workable, 'the law' has to continually hold the support of much of the population, hence justice sometimes creeps into the equation.
I guess in this case 'the law' is trying to address the inherent physical power imbalance that seems to exist between the different human genders. If we were black widdow spiders, we may well have seen a totally different attitude whilst trying to head towrd civil behaviour... just imagine what it must be like for the male spider as a giant female comes a calling with flowers and peers through his window with big bulging eyes.

knecht wrote:

Ooooh.... rubs hands in anticipation....

I'm never convinced that men and women have differing emotions.

There are quite considerable differences Knecht that involve how we tick. When I get home later I'll dig out an old book that I have that is a good read on the topic.

Not really on topic but we are allowed to digress...............

The Man Rules
At last a guy has taken the time to write this all down
Finally , the guys' side of the story.
( I must admit, it's pretty good.)
We always hear " the rules"
From the female side.
Now here are the rules from the male side.

These are our rules!
Please note.. These are all numbered "1 "
ON PURPOSE!
1. Men are NOT mind readers.

1. Learn to work the toilet seat.
You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down.
We need it up, you need it down.
You don't hear us complaining about you leaving it down.

1. Sunday sports It's like the full moon
Or the changing of the tides.
Let it be.

1. Crying is blackmail.

1. Ask for what you want.
Let us be clear on this one:
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!

1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That's what we do.
Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument.
In fact, all comments become Null and void after 7 Days.

1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one

1. You can either ask us to do something
Or tell us how you want it done.
Not both.
If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1. Whenever possible, Please say whatever you have to say during commercials..

1. Christopher Columbus didNOT need directions and neither do we.

1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings.
Peach, for example, is a fruit, not A color. Pumpkin is also a fruit. We have no idea what mauve is.

1. If it itches, it will be scratched.
We do that.

1. If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," We will act like nothing's wrong.
We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1. If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, Expect an answer you don't want to hear.

1. When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine... Really .

1. Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as Football
Or golf.

1. You have enough clothes.

1. You have too many shoes.

1. I am in shape. Round IS a shape!

1. Thank you for reading this.
Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight;

But did you know men really don't mind that? It's like camping.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

She had consenting sex with one guy, whilst obviously still pretty damn pissed, but didn't consent to Evans joining in

Well I wasn't looking in the window like you must have been but it is a matter of record that she did consent to sex with Evans, he was convicted based on the ruling that she had not been sufficiently aware for that consent to be given, pretty bleddy thin in my book.

Where you got the rest of that from I have no idea.

There is no record of her consenting to have sex with Evans, this tells you all about Evans brother and another friend watching through a window and filming it, plus the fact she was incapable of walking and speaking when they reached the hotel, which of course was just with Macdonald. Evans and the others turned up because Macdonald had called or texted to say he had a bird.

My original details were wrong because she never consented to having sex with Macdonald either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2128269/Ched-Evans-Clayton-McDonald-rape-trial-Players-deny-charge.html

I think Macdonald was found not guilty because after he had sex with the victim he left the hotel, so it could have been construed that she had consented. The two footballers stories were also inconsistent as they both blamed each other for being the one who asked her if Evans could join in, and Evans was a cocky little shit under questioning by the Police and said he could have any girl he wanted in the night club. That probably didn't go down too well in court.


Now I'm not saying the girl is Mother Teresa, but the overwhelming evidence is that she was preyed on and that this was a pre-planned incident. It is also something that seems to be commonplace amongst young footballers.

pepsipete wrote:

If a man is seen naked through a window, he is a flasher. If a woman is seen naked through a window you are a peeping Tom.

I know which window I would prefer to look through Pete.

Yours sincerely

Peeping Red Star

The Red Star wrote:

pepsipete wrote:

If a man is seen naked through a window, he is a flasher. If a woman is seen naked through a window you are a peeping Tom.

I know which window I would prefer to look through Pete.

Yours sincerely

Peeping Red Star

How was Munich ?

Ah Tringy, the toilet seat debate. I'm afraid it's not one open to any logical argument. After many years of fighting my corner I've eventually capitulated and now I always close it down







When I remember.

I might see what reaction I get if I leave it down and drip all over it, guerilla tactics.

Charlie Wood wrote:

Ah Tringy, the toilet seat debate. I'm afraid it's not one open to any logical argument. After many years of fighting my corner I've eventually capitulated and now I always close it down







When I remember.

I might see what reaction I get if I leave it down and drip all over it, guerilla tactics.

So do I Charlie.................................. but only cos the dog will drink it otherwise !

knecht wrote:

Ooooh.... rubs hands in anticipation....

I'm never convinced that men and women have differing emotions.

Is it possible that men and women have the same emotions? Is it just how you feel able to express them that make a difference. Maybe problems only arise when a person cannot express him/herself within the norms (percieved constrains) of what it deemed acceptable in which ever society (even sub culture/group) they feel they belong.
For example, here men cry in public, not just for (weddings) funerals but for all sorts of reasons. I am most likely wrong, but can't remember men expressing themselves like that in the UK.

I cried at Wembley, when we beat Darlington

GOB wrote:

knecht wrote:

Ooooh.... rubs hands in anticipation....

I'm never convinced that men and women have differing emotions.

There are quite considerable differences Knecht that involve how we tick. When I get home later I'll dig out an old book that I have that is a good read on the topic.

Don't believe everything you read in books ....

Hundreds of years ago when I did my degree, the Education dissertation I did focussed on gender-stereotyping. The overwhelming evidence was that, whilst there were certainly male-female differences at the extremes, there was far far more overlap than difference.

hippo wrote:

knecht wrote:

Ooooh.... rubs hands in anticipation....

I'm never convinced that men and women have differing emotions.

Is it possible that men and women have the same emotions? Is it just how you feel able to express them that make a difference. Maybe problems only arise when a person cannot express him/herself within the norms (percieved constrains) of what it deemed acceptable in which ever society (even sub culture/group) they feel they belong.
For example, here men cry in public, not just for (weddings) funerals but for all sorts of reasons. I am most likely wrong, but can't remember men expressing themselves like that in the UK.

I think it is changing. Males crying are more acceptable nowadays than when I was growing up.

I think the determining feature is an interaction between family & societal expectations.

Tringreen wrote:

Not really on topic but we are allowed to digress...............

The Man Rules
At last a guy has taken the time to write this all down
Finally , the guys' side of the story.
( I must admit, it's pretty good.)
We always hear " the rules"
From the female side.
Now here are the rules from the male side.

These are our rules!
Please note.. These are all numbered "1 "
ON PURPOSE!
1. Men are NOT mind readers.

1. Learn to work the toilet seat.
You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down.
We need it up, you need it down.
You don't hear us complaining about you leaving it down.

1. Sunday sports It's like the full moon
Or the changing of the tides.
Let it be.

1. Crying is blackmail.

1. Ask for what you want.
Let us be clear on this one:
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!

1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That's what we do.
Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument.
In fact, all comments become Null and void after 7 Days.

1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one

1. You can either ask us to do something
Or tell us how you want it done.
Not both.
If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1. Whenever possible, Please say whatever you have to say during commercials..

1. Christopher Columbus didNOT need directions and neither do we.

1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings.
Peach, for example, is a fruit, not A color. Pumpkin is also a fruit. We have no idea what mauve is.

1. If it itches, it will be scratched.
We do that.

1. If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," We will act like nothing's wrong.
We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1. If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, Expect an answer you don't want to hear.

1. When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine... Really .

1. Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as Football
Or golf.

1. You have enough clothes.

1. You have too many shoes.

1. I am in shape. Round IS a shape!

1. Thank you for reading this.
Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight;

But did you know men really don't mind that? It's like camping.

Good one Tring, the sad part about it is the amount of truth contained

If the jury are wearing make - up, chances are they'll be girls...


...mostly

Tringreen wrote:

I cried at Wembley, when we beat Darlington

I cried in Exeter when you beat Darlington

knecht wrote:

GOB wrote:

knecht wrote:

Ooooh.... rubs hands in anticipation....

I'm never convinced that men and women have differing emotions.

There are quite considerable differences Knecht that involve how we tick. When I get home later I'll dig out an old book that I have that is a good read on the topic.

Don't believe everything you read in books ....

Hundreds of years ago when I did my degree, the Education dissertation I did focussed on gender-stereotyping. The overwhelming evidence was that, whilst there were certainly male-female differences at the extremes, there was far far more overlap than difference.

Ahhh yes Knecht but since then we've landed on the moon and invented bread!

There are differences in sight of distance, focus & and how we see colour, but that's just one of many physical differences apart from the obvious. Mentally the different sexes tick differently for example, when it comes to a problem a woman will want to discuss it and not necessarily want solve it immediately, where as a fella will keep quiet about it and will work to solve it asap. I wouldn't say that men and women have different emotions, but they differ in how those emotions are expressed.

Up date your coursework Knecht, things have moved on quite a bit since the 50s

Read Cordelia Fine's "Delusions of Gender" (pub. 2011) for an expose of gender difference sciences and an argument that it is essentially down to social conditioning.

Greenjock wrote:

From the court case.

Perhaps you would be so good as to provide some link to this official account of the case as what I have read from what I would consider to reliable sources bears little or no resemblance to your account ?

Thanking you in anticipation.

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

From the court case.

Perhaps you would be so good as to provide some link to this official account of the case as what I have read from what I would consider to reliable sources bears little or no resemblance to your account ?

Thanking you in anticipation.

I don't really understand what you mean LT. I linked a report from the court case earlier. Which bit are you questioning? That his friends were watching through the window? That the hotel receptionist saw how pissed she was and could barely stand or speak? That Evans fled the scene by the fire exit? That Evans mate phoned or tx Evans that "he had a bird"? That Evans had paid for the room in advance for the specific purpose of getting a bird back and invite his mates to have a go as well and film it? That Evans cockily told the police he could have any girl he wanted in that club? That she was seen on the clubs CCTV passed out on the floor earlier that night? That Evans had and still has a girlfriend and she's going to stand by him?

The report from the court case I linked has all these details, but if you like I'll find another if you think I have somehow made that link up. I'll go on my laptop later instead ofmy phone and put another link if you like.

knecht wrote:

Read Cordelia Fine's "Delusions of Gender" (pub. 2011) for an expose of gender difference sciences and an argument that it is essentially down to social conditioning.

Same old stuff and archetypal Oxbridge scientific ball playing .... in the Dave Burnside manner.
For every Cordelia there is a Charlie Cook juggling the data 2300 times for the opposition.

As with all this data, the only time any of us can come to a conclusion is when the wider social climate and imperatives demand it... and then we need to be continually looking for a heads up for when said theory is about to be ditched and rescinded in favour of an old favourite. The older I get, the more disillusioned I am with the social control exerted over science... they still haven't learned a thing.
You should read what the learned European scientific gentlemen et babushka had to say under Stalin .... or Churchill for that matter.
If I hear the nurture/nature debate one more time, I'll scream. I think I'll write a dissertation saying I'm proudly agnostic on a sunny day ( say, the 60s ), but up for sale when it gets cold and am in need of a bunce ( say 2012 )..

Lord Tisdale wrote:

Greenjock wrote:

From the court case.

Perhaps you would be so good as to provide some link to this official account of the case as what I have read from what I would consider to reliable sources bears little or no resemblance to your account ?

Thanking you in anticipation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-17730672

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-17677969

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842

You will have to let me know if this doesn't cover what you wanted to see LT.

He's a decent enough goalkeeper, and he's still fairly young. Obviously I expect nearly every football club in the land to give him 90 minutes of abuse though.

Penz wrote:

knecht wrote:

Read Cordelia Fine's "Delusions of Gender" (pub. 2011) for an expose of gender difference sciences and an argument that it is essentially down to social conditioning.

Same old stuff and archetypal Oxbridge scientific ball playing .... in the Dave Burnside manner.
For every Cordelia there is a Charlie Cook juggling the data 2300 times for the opposition.

As with all this data, the only time any of us can come to a conclusion is when the wider social climate and imperatives demand it... and then we need to be continually looking for a heads up for when said theory is about to be ditched and rescinded in favour of an old favourite. The older I get, the more disillusioned I am with the social control exerted over science... they still haven't learned a thing.
You should read what the learned European scientific gentlemen et babushka had to say under Stalin .... or Churchill for that matter.
If I hear the nurture/nature debate one more time, I'll scream. I think I'll write a dissertation saying I'm proudly agnostic on a sunny day ( say, the 60s ), but up for sale when it gets cold and am in need of a bunce ( say 2012 )..

I enjoy juggling balls. And Charlie Cook was entertaining. Dave Burnside was one of my early heroes.

As for nature/nurture - if we don't question 'scientists' they get away with all sorts. If we had listened to them the 'scientifically proven natural order of things' would look quite different to what it does now. I am happy that women, children, blacks, Asians, common people, Jews, disabled etc no longer 'know their place' in the way that they did.

ChrisUren wrote:

He's a decent enough goalkeeper, and he's still fairly young. Obviously I expect nearly every football club in the land to give him 90 minutes of abuse though.

Welcome, Chris.

knecht wrote:

ChrisUren wrote:

He's a decent enough goalkeeper, and he's still fairly young. Obviously I expect nearly every football club in the land to give him 90 minutes of abuse though.

Welcome, Chris.

Welcome from me too Chris.

I wonder if he truly realises how much abuse he will face? However strong willed and thick skinned he believes he is, the abuse would be constant from every team other than Swindon, and even some of their fans will dish it out.

Every single game, for a minimum of 45 minutes, he will be at an end where the fans are hostile, and some grounds he will get it at both ends. Imagine the atmosphere at Cardiff or Milwall away?

Every goal kick as he's virtually touching the crowd? Every corner a big centre forward whispering murderer in his ear? Got to get to you sometimes and then the abuse if he dares to react?