EU warns it will not accept pig in a poke Brexit.

[quote="Frank Bullitt"][quote="Earwegoagain"]

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

With regard to “Taking Back Control of Our Borders” I can confirm that it is an epic clusterfuck.

The problem is because of Brexit we are targeting people who have lived in the UK and contributed to society, but now have to apply to stay here. If their application is rejected they can be refused entry. The ones being rejected are usually those that are trying to do the right thing but have made administrative errors. More often than not it’s family groups where the kids applications have been messed up.

Now we no longer have access to the SIS II system, criminals and sex offenders can come through undetected.

The only light on the horizon is that the Government plan to force as many people through the E-gates as possible and therefore avoid scrutiny by an officer.

There was a pingdemic problem at Heathrow but that was a minor issue compared to Brexit.

I respect that you voted for something better. This isn’t better.

The UK Government have frequently posted infomation where the necessary application forms (see link) can be obtained. I'm sure local councils would help would-be applicants fill them in as would the local Citizens Advice Bureau who assisted me in other matters. Past form has shewn that it is other side of the channel that is extra hot on all form of mistakes such as the wrong colour ink or illegal fillings in sandwiches...


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As for access to the SIS system: Well, the UK may have been naughty boys and girls but don't you think the usual vindictiveness is ever-present considering they don't want us to leave and are determined to set up as many road blocks to impede any form of progress. I would have thought the giving and receiving such infomation was a beneficial two-way street for all. I add a link that you might find interesting...


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We want and hope for something that will accommodate both parties Frank - much the same as what the Swiss Government are currently asking for.

We don’t have access to the SIS II system. It’s as simple as that.

Regarding settled status. We are dealing with human beings and government administration. Mistakes and complications occur. Not everything is black and white.

I don’t think the EU are vindictive. We chose to leave.

But Frank what about the Swiss? Don't forget them.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

We don’t have access to the SIS II system. It’s as simple as that.

Regarding settled status. We are dealing with human beings and government administration. Mistakes and complications occur. Not everything is black and white.

I don’t think the EU are vindictive. We chose to leave.

Is the UK alone in this or can the same charges be laid at the feet of EU countries? Errors in paperwork or even no paperwork/passports doesn't seem to deter people paying good money to dodge bulk carriers in the English Channel to make their lives and that of their families within our borders. What exactly spurs them on to leave the EU for a life in Britain.

Vindictiveness seems to have raised no comment regarding the wrong colour ink or the confiscation of British truckers sandwiches so it's back to SIS II system which by barring the UK seems pretty mean when you consider the work carried out Britain's Sir Alec Jeffreys. The first paragraph of my link should demonstrate how EU crime fighting agencies have benefitted from Jeffrey's work.


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seadog wrote:

But Frank what about the Swiss? Don't forget them.

Congrats on flagging up the way the EU is intimidating the Swiss.


I'm sure the Swiss Government would benefit from your advice Mr S.

Hugh Midde wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

We don’t have access to the SIS II system. It’s as simple as that.

Regarding settled status. We are dealing with human beings and government administration. Mistakes and complications occur. Not everything is black and white.

I don’t think the EU are vindictive. We chose to leave.

Is the UK alone in this or can the same charges be laid at the feet of EU countries? Errors in paperwork or even no paperwork/passports doesn't seem to deter people paying good money to dodge bulk carriers in the English Channel to make their lives and that of their families within our borders. What exactly spurs them on to leave the EU for a life in Britain.

Vindictiveness seems to have raised no comment regarding the wrong colour ink or the confiscation of British truckers sandwiches so it's back to SIS II system which by barring the UK seems pretty mean when you consider the work carried out Britain's Sir Alec Jeffreys. The first paragraph of my link should demonstrate how EU crime fighting agencies have benefitted from Jeffrey's work.


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Regarding SIS II. A consequence of leaving the EU means that we don’t have access to this database. Leave means leave. Not leave means leave but can we have access to SIS II? You voted for us not to have access to this EU system.

The Dutch were just implementing the rules you voted for. I don’t understand why you think it’s vindictive. You seem to expect EU families who are resident in the UK to follow the rules you voted for.

It’s well documented why people come to the UK, both legally and illegally. Channel crossings have increased because the airports were closed due to Covid. Clearly it’s become apparent to the traffickers that this is an easier and more profitable route into the UK and I imagine it will continue to increase.

Very welcome input Frank once again...

harvetheslayer wrote:

Very welcome input Frank once again...

Thank you mate. Sorry to hear of your recent loss.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

We don’t have access to the SIS II system. It’s as simple as that.

Regarding settled status. We are dealing with human beings and government administration. Mistakes and complications occur. Not everything is black and white.

I don’t think the EU are vindictive. We chose to leave.

Is the UK alone in this or can the same charges be laid at the feet of EU countries? Errors in paperwork or even no paperwork/passports doesn't seem to deter people paying good money to dodge bulk carriers in the English Channel to make their lives and that of their families within our borders. What exactly spurs them on to leave the EU for a life in Britain.

Vindictiveness seems to have raised no comment regarding the wrong colour ink or the confiscation of British truckers sandwiches so it's back to SIS II system which by barring the UK seems pretty mean when you consider the work carried out Britain's Sir Alec Jeffreys. The first paragraph of my link should demonstrate how EU crime fighting agencies have benefitted from Jeffrey's work.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Regarding SIS II. A consequence of leaving the EU means that we don’t have access to this database. Leave means leave. Not leave means leave but can we have access to SIS II? You voted for us not to have access to this EU system.

It’s well documented why people come to the UK, both legally and illegally. Channel crossings have increased because the airports were closed due to Covid. Clearly it’s become apparent to the traffickers that this is an easier and more profitable route into the UK and I imagine it will continue to increase.

You made the consequences of leaving SIS II clear enough in your previous post and I fully understand the concerns that face all of us in this country. For my part I highlighted the enormous strides made By the UK's Sir Alec Jeffrey's DNA fingerprinting that is used not only by the EU but all crime fighting agencies around the world. I still maintain it's nothing short of petty vindictiveness on a Brussels who's sole purpose is to arm the would-be rejoiners while planting seeds of doubt in the leavers. I believe most people fully understand that is the EU's raison d'etre. I add a further link for yourself and other interested parties to peruse...

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Finally, your concern for those immigrants who are in peril of their lives is most commendable. However, the next president of the de facto leader of the European Union could be be this bloke....

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Heathrow Airport has criticised Border Force after passengers faced "unacceptable queuing times".
Images on social media showed packed queues at the west London airport on Friday night, with travellers complaining of waits of several hours.
A Heathrow spokesman apologised for the delays, but blamed Border Force for not providing enough staff at immigration.
The Home Office, which has responsibility for Border Force, said the wait times were "unacceptable".
It said Border Force was "rapidly reviewing its rosters and capacity and flexibly deploying our staff across the airport to improve waiting times".

Nothing about Brexit?

When the Tories/ Conservatives* finally regain power and take over from the Tories/ Conservatives* I am sure they will reverse the disastrous cuts in our armed forces, Police and Border forces.

"Strong on cuts and the reasons for cuts"

*delete as appropriate

Hugh Midde wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Hugh Midde wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

We don’t have access to the SIS II system. It’s as simple as that.

Regarding settled status. We are dealing with human beings and government administration. Mistakes and complications occur. Not everything is black and white.

I don’t think the EU are vindictive. We chose to leave.

Is the UK alone in this or can the same charges be laid at the feet of EU countries? Errors in paperwork or even no paperwork/passports doesn't seem to deter people paying good money to dodge bulk carriers in the English Channel to make their lives and that of their families within our borders. What exactly spurs them on to leave the EU for a life in Britain.

Vindictiveness seems to have raised no comment regarding the wrong colour ink or the confiscation of British truckers sandwiches so it's back to SIS II system which by barring the UK seems pretty mean when you consider the work carried out Britain's Sir Alec Jeffreys. The first paragraph of my link should demonstrate how EU crime fighting agencies have benefitted from Jeffrey's work.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Regarding SIS II. A consequence of leaving the EU means that we don’t have access to this database. Leave means leave. Not leave means leave but can we have access to SIS II? You voted for us not to have access to this EU system.

It’s well documented why people come to the UK, both legally and illegally. Channel crossings have increased because the airports were closed due to Covid. Clearly it’s become apparent to the traffickers that this is an easier and more profitable route into the UK and I imagine it will continue to increase.

You made the consequences of leaving SIS II clear enough in your previous post and I fully understand the concerns that face all of us in this country. For my part I highlighted the enormous strides made By the UK's Sir Alec Jeffrey's DNA fingerprinting that is used not only by the EU but all crime fighting agencies around the world. I still maintain it's nothing short of petty vindictiveness on a Brussels who's sole purpose is to arm the would-be rejoiners while planting seeds of doubt in the leavers. I believe most people fully understand that is the EU's raison d'etre. I add a further link for yourself and other interested parties to peruse...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Finally, your concern for those immigrants who are in peril of their lives is most commendable. However, the next president of the de facto leader of the European Union could be be this bloke....

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We will have to agree to disagree then. For my part I have spent the last 15 years as a front line immigration officer in the South East. I am currently a Senior Officer in the busiest single airport terminal in the UK.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Heathrow Airport has criticised Border Force after passengers faced "unacceptable queuing times".
Images on social media showed packed queues at the west London airport on Friday night, with travellers complaining of waits of several hours.
A Heathrow spokesman apologised for the delays, but blamed Border Force for not providing enough staff at immigration.
The Home Office, which has responsibility for Border Force, said the wait times were "unacceptable".
It said Border Force was "rapidly reviewing its rosters and capacity and flexibly deploying our staff across the airport to improve waiting times".

Nothing about Brexit?

Do you honestly think that the Government will admit that the current clusterfuck is because of Brexit? We have brought in a terrible set of rules and have not invested in IT, physical infrastructure or staff to implement them. That’s why there are queues. Where I am we have not recruited front line staff for over two years, yet have lost over 40% of our staff to other departments or they have left the job.

We are chronically short of staff despite our workload increase (as predicted) dramatically. And it’s only going to get worse because there are no cavalry on the horizon.

I have no idea of the protocol as regards rejoining the EU but I assume another referendum at some point but even the most stubborn Brexiteer knows full well its been utterly catastrophic after being achieved on a "manifesto" of disgusting lies

Have noticed the campaigns on Twitter have gained traction this last couple weeks which frankly is much much earlier than I imagined they would

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I genuinely don't know if Harve is completely feckin stupid or just ignorant, I note his tagline is now comparing Johnson to Pol Pot,

Pol Pot was a driving force behind the Cambodian genocide, the systematic persecution and killing of Cambodians that the Khmer Rouge regarded as enemies. The genocide, coupled with malnutrition and poor medical care, killed between 1.5 and 2 million people, approximately a quarter of Cambodia's population.

Unbelievably bad taste but no more than we have come to expect from someone that lies more than the government I guess?

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Apart from at the Borders, where Covid has masked what an idiotic decision it was to end freedom of movement and/or not invest in the vast resources needed to implement it properly.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Apart from at the Borders, where Covid has masked what an idiotic decision it was to end freedom of movement and/or not invest in the vast resources needed to implement it properly.

Maybe a tiny point made but I can remember spending more than a few hours at Plymouth ferry port more than once and even going back ten fifteen years ago (whilst we were still in the EU) whilst border force decided whether to check every bodies passports for ten minutes or half an hour. I think our best one was about four hours when we were half way down the queue. Not sure who to blame that on?

Earwegoagain wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Apart from at the Borders, where Covid has masked what an idiotic decision it was to end freedom of movement and/or not invest in the vast resources needed to implement it properly.

Maybe a tiny point made but I can remember spending more than a few hours at Plymouth ferry port more than once and even going back ten fifteen years ago (whilst we were still in the EU) whilst border force decided whether to check every bodies passports for ten minutes or half an hour. I think our best one was about four hours when we were half way down the queue. Not sure who to blame that on?

You could probably blame the people who were ahead of you in the queue. It sounds like they needed more than a cursory examination.

Now that we are out of the EU, any EU passengers require extra examination. Hence the longer queuing time. If they fail the examination they have a secondary interview where they can be refused entry. Each secondary examination means an officer has to leave the desks and resources are depleted there. This results in even longer queues.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Apart from at the Borders, where Covid has masked what an idiotic decision it was to end freedom of movement and/or not invest in the vast resources needed to implement it properly.

Maybe a tiny point made but I can remember spending more than a few hours at Plymouth ferry port more than once and even going back ten fifteen years ago (whilst we were still in the EU) whilst border force decided whether to check every bodies passports for ten minutes or half an hour. I think our best one was about four hours when we were half way down the queue. Not sure who to blame that on?

You could probably blame the people who were ahead of you in the queue. It sounds like they needed more than a cursory examination.

Now that we are out of the EU, any EU passengers require extra examination. Hence the longer queuing time. If they fail the examination they have a secondary interview where they can be refused entry. Each secondary examination means an officer has to leave the desks and resources are depleted there. This results in even longer queues.

They checked everybody for ages me included, say what you like most of Britain was broken and shite way before Brexit but listening to all the remainers you'd think it was all running like clockwork under the guidance of the EU, it never was.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

seadog wrote:

Pol Pot, Des Pot, all the same family innit.

Or in the case of this government, Tin Pot.

Johnson said we would save £350m a week when we left the EU, which would be used to fund the NHS. In the 68 weeks since that time, our savings would have been £23,800,000,00, give or take a few quid.

So why does he need to raise taxes to pay for social care?

It's almost as though the vote leave campaign was a pack of lies.

It's almost as though all the remainers refuse to acknowledge COVID. Let's face it without Covid you guys wouldn't have had any "proof" of how bad Brexit has been for us.

Apart from at the Borders, where Covid has masked what an idiotic decision it was to end freedom of movement and/or not invest in the vast resources needed to implement it properly.

Maybe a tiny point made but I can remember spending more than a few hours at Plymouth ferry port more than once and even going back ten fifteen years ago (whilst we were still in the EU) whilst border force decided whether to check every bodies passports for ten minutes or half an hour. I think our best one was about four hours when we were half way down the queue. Not sure who to blame that on?

You could probably blame the people who were ahead of you in the queue. It sounds like they needed more than a cursory examination.

Now that we are out of the EU, any EU passengers require extra examination. Hence the longer queuing time. If they fail the examination they have a secondary interview where they can be refused entry. Each secondary examination means an officer has to leave the desks and resources are depleted there. This results in even longer queues.

They checked everybody for ages me included, say what you like most of Britain was broken and shite way before Brexit but listening to all the remainers you'd think it was all running like clockwork under the guidance of the EU, it never was.

I will say what I like. Our immigration system was working fine but it has been trashed by Brexit and the incompetent handling of it by this Brexit government.

You won. You are in charge. You own this clusterfuck. Deal with it and stop blaming everyone else.

It is always someone else's fault, always.