The Mankover all action Thread.

The snails pace progress is down to cash flow. Nothing else makes sense. As for the planning I would have said that the planners don't have an issue with planning and will rubber stamp it as and when nesecary ie they've given it a verbal nod.

Earwegoagain wrote:

The snails pace progress is down to cash flow. Nothing else makes sense. As for the planning I would have said that the planners don't have an issue with planning and will rubber stamp it as and when nesecary ie they've given it a verbal nod.

This sounds like a sensible theory, although what about Hallett's £££? Wasnt that supposed to be be in the Argyle piggybank up front?

Cba to trawl through the planning pages again, but I thought we had conditional approval on the grandstand and then we've also made some amendments? It's all a bit bitty, as these bigger jobs often are. While the works we've seen may technically be at risk, as long as the club are liaising with the council and working towards discharging the conditions, the chance of enforcement orders being served are nil. So we'll probably see it crawl forwards for a while yet, until all the Ts are crossed.

You pay a fee per enquiry to discharge conditions, so maybe they want to do them all at once? Then again, if the club are worrying about those fees at £234 a pop, we really are skint.

My theory is that there was no point putting any more labour onto site as the steelwork was on the critical path of program.

PCC are never going to stop the work and sure there will be compromise over the outstanding drainage issue.

To my mind Hallets cash has been ring fenced for the mankover big bill to GL events, maybe even in Escrow? The creeping along has been funded by diverting whatever the club can from the normal budget to pay for the overspend without dipping into more loans or overdrafts. It makes perfect sense and the club should have easily confirmed such a plan rather than the bullshit dribble about all being on target which it obviously isn't.

Should have torn the whole thing down and got proper permission to put seats on the moanflower like we had for liverpool,

harvetheslayer wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

The pace had been painful. There can be no dispute whatsoever there.

I really can’t be fecked to try and analyse planning portals, but ‘planning permission permitted/not yet permitted’ - it shorely isn’t as simple as that?

Retaining walls have been built the length of the mankover. If this wasn’t permitted, and plastered all over GreensOnScreen, I don’t see how Argyle can get away with that? The foundations are in for the main steels which according to Jon Back will be going up in two weeks. If we get to three, four, five weeks and they aren’t rising I wonder if Mr Back will explain why? On the other hand, if they start going up then to simply say ‘there’s no planning permission’ will clearly be bollocks, regardless of how an administrative page on a Council website reads.

It’d be interesting to hear Graham Clark’s take on this. Or maybe that other buildy-type  fella who always seems to talk sense, MikeWN?

lol you dont need an expert. The Herald released details in depth of new planning applications running to 85 pages which Lloyd also released on Freechat not 3-4 weeks ago
Its not signed off simple as.

That seems to be by the by though, because regardless of that, building is still going on. Every day.

What will your take on things be if steels start getting erected in a couple weeks?

What’s evidently clear from people like Genie and Mike who are in the game, is that it not being fully signed off doesn’t = no work.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Harve is absolutely right - full planning permission has not yet been granted and this is not in doubt. All that is supposed to be happening at Argyle is enabling work.

Then considering what has happened with the build so far, "planning permission" is overrated and would even seem unnecessary?

You'd have thought Symons and yourself and the AFT would be all over this one if Argyle were doing thing illegally?

Anyway...  You have a personal invitation from Brent to go and have coffee with him.   Why don't you do us all a favour, go take him up on his offer, and then tell us all what is really going on?

Rickler wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Harve is absolutely right - full planning permission has not yet been granted and this is not in doubt. All that is supposed to be happening at Argyle is enabling work.

Then considering what has happened with the build so far, "planning permission" is overrated and would even seem unnecessary?

You'd have thought Symons and yourself and the AFT would be all over this one if Argyle were doing thing illegally?

Anyway...  You have a personal invitation from Brent to go and have coffee with him.   Why don't you do us all a favour, go take him up on his offer, and then tell us all what is really going on?

Full planning (under the original hybrid planning application) HAS been granted subject to conditions. Some of those conditions are still yet to be discharged including the surface water drainage condition. However, back in July lat year PCC allowed a partial discharge of the drainage condition to enable full works on the Grandstand to continue - which they have.

What is slightly confusing the issue is that further revisions to the redeveloped Grandstand have been submitted by the Club as a non-material amendment application. A number of revisions have been submitted, the latest revision was submitted only a couple of weeks or so ago. It is these amendments that have not received formal approval by PCC, although worked has clearly progressed with the Council’s full knowledge which would indicate that they will be approved.

The drainage condition (no. 19) has still to be discharged by the Council and there have been a number of revisions to the surface water drainage scheme and a change of consultants. Much of the work is off site to the east of the Barn Park end in Central Park. The proposals for this still have yet to be approved.

All very clear Graham thankyou , just couldn’t see that PAFC with their high profile would have proceeded as far as they’ve got without some kind of a tick in the planning box, common sense really I suppose.

can the grandstand be completed and used with condition 19 not discharged?

I have been forwarded an email from an enquirer to Liam McGuire of the GTs who was asking about investment possibilities. They wouldnt show a business plan unless face to face meeting
I wont copy and paste across unless I'm doubted but in short they have 90% of their funding. Interest as we knew at 5% per annum with capital repayment over 5-7 years
The interesting bit was that capital repaid will come entirely from "bar profits"

Going back to those figures I suggested a month ago they will simply never do it in that period of time especially 5 years. They will need to take massive amounts on matchdays because when the initial flurry dies down and it will the other 6 days a week will see small monies heading across the bar.

Just ask the stewards of the Far Post which had huge membership how busy they were on wet mondays tuesdays wednesdays thursdays in Winter or even summer for that matter for a pub in a park

Say its 5 years and capital needing to be recouped will amount to £4000 a week give or take net and would need around 9k or 10k across the tills gross to achieve it. 52 weeks a year lol. Utterly and completely doomed to failure.
Course you got interest on top 1k a week roughly net so around £2250 or thereabouts across tills weekly gross in addition
These people are absolute bonkers.

Can only assume the business plan was written by Nick Leeson

No wonder they have had to use private monies. Any commercial lender would piss themselves with laughter with or without Brents involvement

But....
This is a big but, You will get the Aviva's who invested,
Who will give up any return on investment,

For a handshake from Jimmy and other Aviva based feck wittery,

Jethro wrote:

But....
This is a big but, You will get the Aviva's  who invested,
Who will give up any return on investment,

For a handshake from Jimmy and other Aviva based feck wittery,

I think most of us have worked that out, however it’ll be down to the individual and t&c’s if they wish to part with their cash, if they choose to do so then good luck to them.

What was interesting in the latest club soundbite was that the players will be using one of the two lounges for training day meals.

That obviously takes one potential function room out of the equation during the week.

Czarcasm wrote:

What was interesting in the latest club soundbite was that the players will be using one of the two lounges for training day meals.

That obviously takes one potential function room out of the equation during the week.

The Far Post had two lounges with most people only ever seeing the main one.
Apart from matchdays the other was only used for private functions which were few and far between. On an average I might get asked to work a function once every two weeks tops. There was just no call for a function room inside a football club. There still wont be.

Wakes and weddings and anniversary parties should provide regular income due to the goodwill the GTs have built up over the years. And I assume the club will be paying rent for the function room they're using until their own splendiferous function suite is fully operational.

Dingle wrote:

Wakes and weddings and anniversary parties should provide regular income due to the goodwill the GTs have built up over the years.  And I assume the club will be paying rent for the function room they're using until their own splendiferous function suite is fully operational.

The Far Post had a much bigger following over a very very extensive time. Nobody wanted parties in the back end of nowhere for 30 years and the GTs shack is sat on the identical site.
I can say with utter certainty I never did a single wedding there either. Completely wrong location

The penny will drop a year after opening if thats what they are relying on

Least the Dressing room is getting a roof, wonder how long it will take to fit out,

As long as the shop took or less ?

There was an article recently where they said that the business plan was based on what they already earn in a year, extrapolated for increased size (and reduced shitness, although that was more implied.) If they're open about what the Pyramid Suite makes then investors are at least making an informed choice with their money.

In fairness to the GTs, while the FanFests aren't my thing, they are enjoyed by a lot of people. That may well build into extra business away from matchdays, if their pricing and customer service is good. I know that there are companies that put on CPD days and supplier exhibits at Home Park who think the location is perfect - it's just that the club treated them like Argyle were doing them a favour, rather than as paying customers.

I have my fingers crossed for a supporters' bar that shows off the great beer, cider and spirits we make down here. It'll be wall-to-wall Carlsberg Extra Cold, obviously, but I can dream.

MikeWN wrote:

There was an article recently where they said that the business plan was based on what they already earn in a year, extrapolated for increased size (and reduced shitness, although that was more implied.) If they're open about what the Pyramid Suite makes then investors are at least making an informed choice with their money.

In fairness to the GTs, while the FanFests aren't my thing, they are enjoyed by a lot of people. That may well build into extra business away from matchdays, if their pricing and customer service is good. I know that there are companies that put on CPD days and supplier exhibits at Home Park who think the location is perfect - it's just that the club treated them like Argyle were doing them a favour, rather than as paying customers.

I have my fingers crossed for a supporters' bar that shows off the great beer, cider and spirits we make down here. It'll be wall-to-wall Carlsberg Extra Cold, obviously, but I can dream.

You're not wrong. I'd say the only remote chance there'd be of getting any quality beers in there would be if someone in a position of active influence was a craft beer fan. That would seem to rule out any of the GT's judging by their awful fanfest offerings.

Jethro wrote:

But....
This is a big but, You will get the Aviva's  who invested,
Who will give up any return on investment,

For a handshake from Jimmy and other Aviva based feck wittery,

About the size of it, my dear old thing.

30% knew the muff weakness as soon as he met the Windsor Boys.

Photo with Mike Bickle ?

Janner milking machine.

Czarcasm wrote:

MikeWN wrote:

There was an article recently where they said that the business plan was based on what they already earn in a year, extrapolated for increased size (and reduced shitness, although that was more implied.) If they're open about what the Pyramid Suite makes then investors are at least making an informed choice with their money.

In fairness to the GTs, while the FanFests aren't my thing, they are enjoyed by a lot of people. That may well build into extra business away from matchdays, if their pricing and customer service is good. I know that there are companies that put on CPD days and supplier exhibits at Home Park who think the location is perfect - it's just that the club treated them like Argyle were doing them a favour, rather than as paying customers.

I have my fingers crossed for a supporters' bar that shows off the great beer, cider and spirits we make down here. It'll be wall-to-wall Carlsberg Extra Cold, obviously, but I can dream.

You're not wrong. I'd say the only remote chance there'd be of getting any quality beers in there would be if someone in a position of active influence was a craft beer fan. That would seem to rule out any of the GT's judging by their awful fanfest offerings.

Also, decent ale needs consistent turnover/ cellar, or it spoils.

"Also, decent ale needs consistent turnover/ cellar, or it spoils."

Exactly what will required to make the returns.

I've sent the figures that we know to my publican friend who used to own the Grenville for 20 years his wife the boozer by College Further Education and currently owns 3 boozers in Spain details namely the £1 million up front cost, the 5% per annum interest plus capital to be repaid over 5 years.
Because I worked both Far Post and Grenville I know what mark up typically is on booze and food but will let a professional come back after crunching the numbers not some builder at the GTs

I hadnt taken into account any liability insurance building maintenance or anything else as regards costs

As MikeWN says you'd think they'd know from running fans fests to date but the numbers dont compute for me at all.