Mankover Planning application submitted

beesrus wrote:

You're probably right Peggy. I keep getting my regeneration monies mixed up. Certain SRB monies, that even I have benefited from in the past, come from so many sources these days, it's hard to keep track. It's how so much "social enterprise" survives these days, constantly spending half their time chasing " funding". Outrageous really. Much should be funded directly from taxation. The £11 to 15m that Central Park is getting is just the latest example. All going on capital expenditure, with little left for maintenance, hence the desire of the council to monetise the park. They'll be charging next just to walk in. Our allotment rents are going up by 200% in 5 years !!!! That's 200%

sadly bees the allotments can no longer be loss making part of the council all the books need to balance. I dont agree with the council on this. I have a friend who has a plot in barn park road they have been complaining for many years that rents have increased far to much. The allotments are a little haven of peace that should not be lost.

lawnmowerman wrote:

sadly bees the allotments can no longer be loss making part of the council all the books need to balance. I dont agree with the council on this.

With respect lawny, this is where the argument is starting to turn after 10 years of austerity bollocks since the big wake up call., and don't the likes of Brent just love the austerity ruse when it suits.  Who is it that says the "allotments need to not lose money " ?. The last time I looked, the armed forces of this country return a loss of 30 billion or whatever every year, but that's still deemed ok. It's all about what is deemed worthy of spending "our" money on. Half the economy functions on tax receipts that obviously returns a loss in strict monetary terms. Does education and health have to return a profit now ? It's all nonsense and an eternal fight as to what those receipts are spent on, and what is considered worthy. I don't need to expand any further, as we all know the score. Power to the people.
The raspberries are brilliant this year. The only subsidy that goes on at Central park allotments in the broader scheme of things is my labour. And by the way, allotment plots are considered at least 2 times more productive in food terms than mass corporate farmed fields are, without even getting into the whole issue of air miles and god knows what else. But we don't hear about that. The land girls never went away.

Just bringing this back up to the top as I've received a ton more documents from the council today - presumably everybody who commented on the plans has had them.

One thing that jumped out at me is that the hotel (which will be on the vets' site, going up that road beside the Life Centre) is now five stories ... plus the restaurants etc on the ground floor, meaning it's a six storey building.

I'm sure that will spoil the view for Peverell residents. How are they going to be able to see the Hanging Gardens of Babylon now?

Dick Trickle wrote:

I'm sure that will spoil the view for Peverell residents. How are they going to be able to see the Hanging Gardens of Babylon now?

Brent's chauffeur's Mum won't mind losing her view as long as it profits the fine gentleman.

And on closer inspection it seems the gym's grown and there's even more office space, as the upper floors will overhang what's left of the car park. Talking of which, I still haven't found any more parking spaces for all these extra people, so presumably the Great 2017 Park and Ride Grab's still on.

Here's the architects' sketch of what it'll look like if you're standing with the Life Centre behind you and facing the old turnstiles (I'm quite impressed at the way it shows the shadow of the Life Centre):

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And from a slightly different angle:

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And this is what you'll see as you come out of that turnstile down the bottom by the old Far Post:

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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
BRENTOUTBRENTOUTBRENTOUTBRENTOUTBREN

I looked at the pictures for the first time - the new stand only has 4 turnstiles, lets hope those 800 covers don't all arrive at the same time!

[quote="Peggy"]And on closer inspection it seems the gym's grown and there's even more office space, as the upper floors will overhang what's left of the car park. Talking of which, I still haven't found any more parking spaces for all these extra people, so presumably the Great 2017 Park and Ride grab's still on.quote]

1.7
Finally, this TN includes an assessment of parking accumulation in the Milehouse Park & Ride
.
Following comments from PCC’s Highway Officer, this assessment was undertaken to  demonstrate  the  level  of
existing usage of this facility and that there is sufficient spare capacity for the overspill of parking from the
development proposals to be accommodated.

2.3
It is understood that there will be a total of 193 car parking spaces, comprising 57 spaces in Higher Home
Park, 46 spaces around the Home Park football stadium, and 90 spaces in the Western Gateway Site.

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Peggy wrote:

And this is what you'll see as you come out of that turnstile down the bottom by the old Far Post:

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Hey, if Argyle ever wanted to build a new proper grandstand, I wonder if the office block owner and businesses proposed in this application would be cheeky enough to be the first to object ? Mind you, if it's the same owner, the situation doesn't arise.

Tgwu wrote:

Peggy wrote:

And on closer inspection it seems the gym's grown and there's even more office space, as the upper floors will overhang what's left of the car park. Talking of which, I still haven't found any more parking spaces for all these extra people, so presumably the Great 2017 Park and Ride grab's still on.quote]

1.7
Finally, this TN includes an assessment of parking accumulation in the Milehouse Park & Ride
.
Following comments from PCC’s Highway Officer, this assessment was undertaken to  demonstrate  the  level  of
existing usage of this facility and that there is sufficient spare capacity for the overspill of parking from the
development proposals to be accommodated.

2.3
It is understood that there will be a total of 193 car parking spaces, comprising 57 spaces in Higher Home
Park, 46 spaces around the Home Park football stadium, and 90 spaces in the Western Gateway Site.

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Aha - well spotted, comrade. I've given up trying to open that document for now, as it was taking ages to open. It could well be my broadband, but it could also be part of the all-out effort to make it very difficult for us plebs to access and digest all the tons of information there is about this. An effort which, together with the willing support of the local media, is clearly designed to ensure the application sails through before anybody notices how terrible it is.

So. 193 spaces for over 200 office workers, up to 800 conference delegates, who knows how many hotel guests since it's grown, ice rink staff, hotel staff, football club staff - and that's without it being a match day. But - tugs non-existent forelock - they've assessed current usage of the park and ride and decided that there's currently capacity for the overspill. Thus ensuring that it'll end up full by 9.30 every day and that there'll be no space for somebody starting a shift at Derriford at, say, 2pm. Or for anybody who works in town on flexi, part time or other than 9-5. Or for students living elsewhere who are encouraged to use it to get to lectures. Or for the large numbers of people who use it to come into Plymouth and spend much-needed money in the shops. Or indeed for anybody who wants to go for a walk, with or without dog, in the park itself. Up yours, Plymouth, there's profit to be made on your backs.

Immoral doesn't begin to describe it.

Brents, hideous plan to surround Homepark with a massive concrete crapshack must be resisted, its ugly gash and should be nowhere near central park.

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Brents, hideous plan to surround Homepark with a massive concrete crapshack must be resisted, its ugly gash and should be nowhere near central park.

Absolutely Suffers this proposed development is just plain wrong for the club and for the people of Plymouth.

As much as I cant stand the revolting creep sadly this is going to sail through it appears. If they overcome the two main objections water drainage, traffic flows etc nothing will stop this.
PCC clearly appear to want it. They appear happy to allow the car park to be be completely utilised.... The general public on the whole are not bothered either way (edited to add probably because they dont realise the extent of it)..... Be realistic quite a few of the objections including mine are from this forum. The amount of objections are small to say the least albeit so are those in favour......
PCC are on the line cost wise if the application is declined but granted on appeal....this will be granted 99% with conditions.

However will a subsequent brick be laid re HHP. Course there wont be dont be so ridiculous our serial failure leader in charge of the show will ensure that... Will the grandstand be refurbed I'd say 50/50....

I'm sure somebody will remember for certain, but am I right in thinking that there hasn't been any kind of public event to show off these plans? Like the one in the Theatre Royal for HHP1?

With something like 200 documents to work through, some of them apparently put together rather carelessly, it's no wonder there haven't been more comments.

I wonder if the first application was there to draw out all the educated wankers like a misile firing chaff and then the long list of amendments come in and no-one has the energy to even read them, let alone contact PCC, thereby giving tacit agreement to the new proposals?

"Okay, we've listened to the comments received and have made the necessary alterations to keep everyone happy"

"any dissentions........no, right let's move on"

Yep I go with Harves take on it, planning will be granted maybe with conditions then no money will come in to build it, HHP failed, Bretonside faltering, this private money is a lie. Meanwhile all our hard earned is being spanked on huge entrances to the places that will attract the private money cheap building land for previously owned by us like Seaton barracks. No doubt all the money the council spends will be recouped by the council when the land is sold?

Dick Trickle wrote:

I wonder if the first application was there to draw out all the educated wankers like a misile firing chaff and then the long list of amendments come in and no-one has the energy to even read them, let alone contact PCC, thereby giving tacit agreement to the new proposals?

"Okay, we've listed to the comments received and have made the necessary alterations to keep everyone happy"

"any dissentions........no, right let's move on"

My thoughts entirely.

Except they haven't addressed all the comments, and particularly not those about parking (which, apart from the obscenity of putting such buildings in or next to a public park, is my main concern. Just in case anybody hadn't guessed   ).

Peggy wrote:

I'm sure somebody will remember for certain, but am I right in thinking that there hasn't been any kind of public event to show off these plans? Like the one in the Theatre Royal for HHP1?

With something like 200 documents to work through, some of them apparently put together rather carelessly, it's no wonder there haven't been more comments.

Peggy were you sent an email document ?? I cant open mine at all if thats what you were referring to yesterday ??

I was sent an email containing a massive list of documents, inviting any further comment. But I've accessed the documents through the planning portal - they've got dates on so we can see what's new.

harvetheslayer wrote:

As much as I cant stand the revolting creep sadly this is going to sail through it appears. If they overcome the two main objections water drainage, traffic flows etc nothing will stop this.
PCC clearly appear to want it. They appear happy to allow the car park to be be completely utilised.... The general public on the whole are not bothered either way (edited to add probably because they dont realise the extent of it)..... Be realistic quite a few of the objections including mine are from this forum. The amount of objections are small to say the least albeit so are those in favour......
PCC are on the line cost wise if the application is declined but granted on appeal....this will be granted 99% with conditions.

However will a subsequent brick be laid re HHP. Course there wont be dont be so ridiculous our serial failure leader in charge of the show will ensure that... Will the grandstand be refurbed I'd say 50/50....

I think this is right. There is no organised opposition, only Internet warriordom, so it’ll stand or fall despite the small amount of objections/those in favour.

Feel for those who it will genuinely affect but also want to see the grandstand get refurbed. One shouldn’t have been wrapped with the other but they were and just hope now there is no delay to the stand getting done.

Brent is here to stay until he gets his dollars back out of the whole project. Best way for that to happen will be Argyle succeeding. Better hope Adams can pull some more rabbits out of hats.

Land with planning goes only one way, wether you build on it or not - predict it could be built but not by our boss!!

Bandwagon wrote:

Land with planning goes only one way, wether you build on it or not - predict it could be built but not by our boss!!

Yes, Bandy. I'm trying to be optimistic and hoping the scheme won't be permitted, or at least not without radical changes (as opposed to the small changes made so far). But you're right - the end game is probably more concerned with having land with planning permission (including the all important planning permission for an ice rink which lets the Pavilions deal go through) than with actually building these monstrosities. What that means for the grandstand - who knows?