General Election June 8th 2017

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Maybe. I was only 7 at the time. Hardly lauded by his party for taking us in, was he?

Then again the Tories have always been very revisionist. Maggie is often hailed as a great europhobe and yet she negotiated the Maastricht Treaty on our behalf.

Then again they've flip flopped on Europe so much it is daft.

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Both Labour and the Tories were pretty much split on Europe. There were no greater anti Europeans than people like Tony Benn and Peter Shore, who could be said to occupy extreme left positions in the Labour party-in fact the left wing as a whole was virulently anti Europe as much as people like Powell were in the Tory party.

Will she lose 2 - 0 ?

mouldyoldgoat wrote:

Will she lose 2 - 0 ?

Stroll in the park for Corbyns boys, May is like a dog turd that's been lying in the sun and turned white.

MAY OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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No wonder it came of the blue!

[quote="zyph"]

Les Miserable wrote:

You're so negative Zyph.

Nothing negative about my comments......facts, facts, facts.

.[/quote

Not facts at all. Just your opinion. A vast difference.

Freathy wrote:

May is one shit PM and deserves to be booted out on her useless arse but I'm so sick of politics and all vile, lying, greedy, incompetent, self serving, war mongering  politicians that I really can't be arsed with any of this crap anymore. Britain deserves better than the crap of all political colours that infects Parliament these days.

Totally agree.

Moist_Von_Lipwig wrote:

Freathy wrote:

May is one shit PM and deserves to be booted out on her useless arse but I'm so sick of politics and all vile, lying, greedy, incompetent, self serving, war mongering  politicians that I really can't be arsed with any of this crap anymore. Britain deserves better than the crap of all political colours that infects Parliament these days.

Totally agree.

But who is good enough to replace her......best the devil you know than one you don't....

As a Brexiteer I just worry that there just isn't a good enough candidate whose one aim is getting us out with maximum gain.

Boris and Gove have blotted their possibilities......in fact I feel that Boris Johnson goes where the wind takes him for maximum gain.....knifing him in the back is the only good thing Gove has ever done.

Nigel Farage has the right credentials to stand up for the UK against the U.S of the EU and their federal beliefs.....but he is out of favour with many at present and his party has the loony Paul Nuttall in charge who will lose a lot of those 4 million votes achieved last time......Farage did need a rest from carrying UKIP by himself and now it's lack of leadership is showing.....which is great for the Tories/Labour/Lib-Dems and the very strange Green Party.

The governments Brexit minister Davis has no charisma at all and I do find it hard staying awake listening to him.....maybe just maybe the EU delegation might fall asleep as well and miss a few tricks.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

This is all very fishy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writing is on the wall that the Tory election expenses fiasco has them banged to rights meaning that around 20 by-elections could be called. Were that to happen any angry local constituency is unlikely to return the same winner and the Tory majority is gone.

Dig a little deeper and the referendum would then have been called by a government fraudulently elected. If you think the referendum has created a constitutional nightmare then imagine it being declared null and void and work on from there...

On top of which Article 50 was enacted before this decision was made. Does anybody seriously believe that Theresa May just woke up this morning and thought "ooooh I think I'll call an election"? Of course not.

So she is either lying through her teeth or is playing fast and lost in terms of strategy with the most monumental decisions a government can make.

I thought Cameron was reckless, conceited and incompetent but Theresa May looks like knocking spots of him.

The real problem the Tories have is keeping their party together. Every leader in recent times has been destroyed by the issue of Europe and TM is terrified that she'll be next.

So it is all about Brexit. There'll be a glib phrase in the manifesto saying "Brexit means Brexit" (or something equally vague) which will then be endlessly referred to to justify every act of constitutional vandalism required to get Brexit done. Her pro-Europe wing will be neutered and she'll be able to march on with the de-regulation that Bangladeshifies the UK into some sort of dodgy European tax haven that we seem destined for.

Although it could all backfire. The government majority is currently small. They are unlikely to gain seats in Scotland. The LDs might win a few they lost last time back and we could end up with a hung Parliament if Labour can get its shit together.

It's all a bit like the threatening Chinese phrase "may you live in interesting times" made real.

Accurate assessment SFD. She's also refusing to debate on live tv. Corbyn , for all his lack of charisma is an honest, caring man and invariably on the right side of history, whereas May cosies up to Trump and the Saudis. I think he'd destroy her on policy at home and re brexit. Apart from the Tories and biased mainstream media, many of Corbyn's own MP's continually undermine him. They are primarily the reason why Labour is struggling.
I think Labour will hold onto most constituencies because many of them are very safe but I can see the Tories getting roughed up by the Lib Dems. Anyone for a Lab/ Lib Dem/ SNP coalition ?

I hope my party wins big.

Tringreen wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

This is all very fishy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writing is on the wall that the Tory election expenses fiasco has them banged to rights meaning that around 20 by-elections could be called. Were that to happen any angry local constituency is unlikely to return the same winner and the Tory majority is gone.

Dig a little deeper and the referendum would then have been called by a government fraudulently elected. If you think the referendum has created a constitutional nightmare then imagine it being declared null and void and work on from there...

On top of which Article 50 was enacted before this decision was made. Does anybody seriously believe that Theresa May just woke up this morning and thought "ooooh I think I'll call an election"? Of course not.

So she is either lying through her teeth or is playing fast and lost in terms of strategy with the most monumental decisions a government can make.

I thought Cameron was reckless, conceited and incompetent but Theresa May looks like knocking spots of him.

The real problem the Tories have is keeping their party together. Every leader in recent times has been destroyed by the issue of Europe and TM is terrified that she'll be next.

So it is all about Brexit. There'll be a glib phrase in the manifesto saying "Brexit means Brexit" (or something equally vague) which will then be endlessly referred to to justify every act of constitutional vandalism required to get Brexit done. Her pro-Europe wing will be neutered and she'll be able to march on with the de-regulation that Bangladeshifies the UK into some sort of dodgy European tax haven that we seem destined for.

Although it could all backfire. The government majority is currently small. They are unlikely to gain seats in Scotland. The LDs might win a few they lost last time back and we could end up with a hung Parliament if Labour can get its shit together.

It's all a bit like the threatening Chinese phrase "may you live in interesting times" made real.

Accurate assessment SFD. She's also refusing to debate on live tv. Corbyn , for all his lack of charisma is an honest, caring man and invariably on the right side of history, whereas May cosies up to Trump and the Saudis. I think he'd destroy her on policy at home and re brexit. Apart from the Tories and biased mainstream media, many of Corbyn's own MP's continually undermine him. They are primarily the reason why Labour is struggling.
I think Labour will hold onto most constituencies because many of them are very safe but I can see the Tories getting roughed up by the Lib Dems. Anyone for a Lab/ Lib Dem/ SNP coalition ?

To pick up on the Labour in-fighting/Corbyn angle here...

It saddens me hugely. There is very strongly held belief on both sides of the Corbynite/Blairite divide.

The Blairites fervently believe that any Labour government is better than any other partied one and that it is more important to be elected than anything else. To that pragmatic end they are happy to be extremely Centrist which is the political ground they feel must be occupied for Labour to win.

The Corbynites are more ideological. More Socialist than Centrist. For them the whole point is to be radical and effect genuine change. They'd argue there is no point in winning at all if they need to adopt Tory policies to do so. There is huge support for this within the wider Labour movement hence the mushrooming membership figures and landslide victories for Corbyn in the two leadership contests so far.

Quite how the two will ever be reconciled I have no idea.

As for Corbyn I quite like some of his policies but don't much care for him and his followers are so dominant in number he'll never be removed. I think for the good of everybody he should hand the baton on to... somebody. Somebody he feels happy to endorse but who is rather more effective in terms of pragmatism and leadership qualities.

I'm kind of a fence-sitter on this one. I can see the attractions and faults on both sides. Ed Milliband was probably about as close to where I stand as anybody I can think of but he was always damned by the Tories who very effectively smeared him with the "wrong Milliband" bullshit when D. Milliband was Foreign Secretary during the Iraq War fiasco... How anybody ever thought he was the "right Milliband" is totally beyond me.

I was listening to LBC and Radio five last night and there were calls for the left to unite and take on the Tories and win. I would not be too comfortable with the idea of The Labour Party in its current form going in sink with the SNP and Sinn Fein, especially the latter.

Such a move down that road would be an unbelievable error. Westminster could be held to ransom by the SNP and Sinn Fein should a united left win the election. There is no way they would chip in and expect nothing back. They will have agendas and a Corbyn led Labour Party/Government would yield to any and all demands.

I would go as far as saying that a Corbyn led Labour Party/Government may well see a true break up of the UK ?.

VillageGreen wrote:

I was listening to LBC and Radio five last night and there were calls for the left to unite and take on the Tories and win. I would not be too comfortable with the idea of The Labour Party in its current form going in sink with the SNP and Sinn Fein, especially the latter.

Such a move down that road would be an unbelievable error. Westminster could be held to ransom by the SNP and Sinn Fein should a united left win the election. There is no way they would chip in and expect nothing back. They will have agendas and a Corbyn led Labour Party/Government would yield to any and all demands.

I would go as far as saying that a Corbyn led Labour Party/Government may well see a true break up of the UK ?.

Educated wanker!!!!

may will win this election there can be no doubt on that. the question to debate is how big a margin she will win.

Sinn Fein will never take a seat at Westminster ergo it will never vote on anything nor will it ever coalesce with anybody.

Nor should we forget that it was John Major's government that started the negotiations with Sinn Fiein that eventually resulted in Blair's Good Friday Agreement (predicated on an open border and under-scored by EU law) which has delivered relative peace in Ireland ever since. Corbyn is not the only politician to have talked to Sinn Fein.

Brexit is what threatens the Union. How would you feel if you were Gbraltarian? They voted over-whelmingly to remain British and equally over-whelmingly to stay in the EU. Now they can't do both so whatever happens they have been shafted maybe they'll leave.

There was a majority for remain in Northern Ireland. The North could decide to merge with Eire.

Scotland is champing at the bit for a second Indy Ref.

These are all very real possibilities and they are all in the process of happening right now which is rather more than can be said for Corbyn's chances of forming such a coalition when one of the parties concerned will never take a seat at Westminster under any circumstances.

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

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Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Tringreen wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

This is all very fishy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writing is on the wall that the Tory election expenses fiasco has them banged to rights meaning that around 20 by-elections could be called. Were that to happen any angry local constituency is unlikely to return the same winner and the Tory majority is gone.

Dig a little deeper and the referendum would then have been called by a government fraudulently elected. If you think the referendum has created a constitutional nightmare then imagine it being declared null and void and work on from there...

On top of which Article 50 was enacted before this decision was made. Does anybody seriously believe that Theresa May just woke up this morning and thought "ooooh I think I'll call an election"? Of course not.

So she is either lying through her teeth or is playing fast and lost in terms of strategy with the most monumental decisions a government can make.

I thought Cameron was reckless, conceited and incompetent but Theresa May looks like knocking spots of him.

The real problem the Tories have is keeping their party together. Every leader in recent times has been destroyed by the issue of Europe and TM is terrified that she'll be next.

So it is all about Brexit. There'll be a glib phrase in the manifesto saying "Brexit means Brexit" (or something equally vague) which will then be endlessly referred to to justify every act of constitutional vandalism required to get Brexit done. Her pro-Europe wing will be neutered and she'll be able to march on with the de-regulation that Bangladeshifies the UK into some sort of dodgy European tax haven that we seem destined for.

Although it could all backfire. The government majority is currently small. They are unlikely to gain seats in Scotland. The LDs might win a few they lost last time back and we could end up with a hung Parliament if Labour can get its shit together.

It's all a bit like the threatening Chinese phrase "may you live in interesting times" made real.

Accurate assessment SFD. She's also refusing to debate on live tv. Corbyn , for all his lack of charisma is an honest, caring man and invariably on the right side of history, whereas May cosies up to Trump and the Saudis. I think he'd destroy her on policy at home and re brexit. Apart from the Tories and biased mainstream media, many of Corbyn's own MP's continually undermine him. They are primarily the reason why Labour is struggling.
I think Labour will hold onto most constituencies because many of them are very safe but I can see the Tories getting roughed up by the Lib Dems. Anyone for a Lab/ Lib Dem/ SNP coalition ?

To pick up on the Labour in-fighting/Corbyn angle here...

It saddens me hugely. There is very strongly held belief on both sides of the Corbynite/Blairite divide.

The Blairites fervently believe that any Labour government is better than any other partied one and that it is more important to be elected than anything else. To that pragmatic end they are happy to be extremely Centrist which is the political ground they feel must be occupied for Labour to win.

The Corbynites are more ideological. More Socialist than Centrist. For them the whole point is to be radical and effect genuine change. They'd argue there is no point in winning at all if they need to adopt Tory policies to do so. There is huge support for this within the wider Labour movement hence the mushrooming membership figures and landslide victories for Corbyn in the two leadership contests so far.

Quite how the two will ever be reconciled I have no idea.

As for Corbyn I quite like some of his policies but don't much care for him and his followers are so dominant in number he'll never be removed. I think for the good of everybody he should hand the baton on to... somebody. Somebody he feels happy to endorse but who is rather more effective in terms of pragmatism and leadership qualities.

I'm kind of a fence-sitter on this one. I can see the attractions and faults on both sides. Ed Milliband was probably about as close to where I stand as anybody I can think of but he was always damned by the Tories who very effectively smeared him with the "wrong Milliband" bullshit when D. Milliband was Foreign Secretary during the Iraq War fiasco... How anybody ever thought he was the "right Milliband" is totally beyond me.

The general public tend to be swayed in their opinion of leaders not by policies but by whether they look and sound like a PM. Blair achieved that with ease. Ed has a nasal voice............It was game over as soon he spoke. I could tell that instantly.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Your Hard Right bias is clouding your sense of proportion if anything.

What they've done is broken strict spending limits on campaigning by deviously declaring them as Governmental expenditure. So basically at the tax payer expense not the party. This should at the very least s force a re-run of the elections in their constituencies

What a ridiculous post, so breaking the law and deceiving the tax payer is OK as long nobody has been murdered.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Your Hard Right bias is clouding your sense of proportion if anything.

What they've done is broken strict spending limits on campaigning by deviously declaring them as Governmental expenditure. So basically at the tax payer expense not the party. This should at the very least s force a re-run of the elections in their constituencies

What a ridiculous post, so breaking the law and deceiving the tax payer is OK as long nobody has been murdered.

How much more extreme can you get?

He accepts, without the need for trial, they are Guilty. Not even a hint that they might not be.

If this is an example of the "sovereignty" he wants back then we are headed for a full-on Fascist state. Right to a trial before your peers? Red tape. Who needs it? Abolish that.

Obviously the Human Rights Act is a problem here. No it ain't! Only Red Tape. Abolish that too.

We really are miles down a slippery slope when such things are even vaguely thought of let alone ringingly endorsed like this.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Your Hard Right bias is clouding your sense of proportion if anything.

What they've done is broken strict spending limits on campaigning by deviously declaring them as Governmental expenditure. So basically at the tax payer expense not the party. This should at the very least s force a re-run of the elections in their constituencies

What a ridiculous post, so breaking the law and deceiving the tax payer is OK as long nobody has been murdered.

How much more extreme can you get?

He accepts, without the need for trial, they are Guilty. Not even a hint that they might not be.

If this is an example of the "sovereignty" he wants back then we are headed for a full-on Fascist state. Right to a trial before your peers? Red tape. Who needs it? Abolish that.

Obviously the Human Rights Act is a problem here. No it ain't! Only Red Tape. Abolish that too.

We really are miles down a slippery slope when such things are even vaguely thought of let alone ringingly endorsed like this.

Cynicism about the integrity of MP's leads to full on fascist state!

You really are a complete and utter twat at times. No wonder people give you so much grief.

Despite what Jeremy Corbyn has been twittering on about, this election will be about Brexit and to ensure that Theresa May can do whatever she wants. The hope is that her majority contains enough moderates to drown out the back bench nutters such as Bill Cash and Iain Duncan Smith and pursue a more considerate approach than the mindless 'leave at costs' mentality that they have somehow normalised. The clock is ticking because the EU have already said that they don't intend to talk about trade until we have settled our divorce bill.

Most of us, myself included have accepted that we are leaving the EU and also that TM needs to get on with the job of trying to salvage something out of the wreckage.

So hopefully an improved majority will not just give her a stronger mandate in Parliament but also within her own party. However her nastiness and incompetence as Home Secretary makes me think that we will crash out of the EU with nothing.

Anyone that thinks that would be a good thing is quite frankly an idiot.

What transpires over Le Channel Francais in the next month may well have a direct bearing on how people vote here.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Your Hard Right bias is clouding your sense of proportion if anything.

What they've done is broken strict spending limits on campaigning by deviously declaring them as Governmental expenditure. So basically at the tax payer expense not the party. This should at the very least s force a re-run of the elections in their constituencies

What a ridiculous post, so breaking the law and deceiving the tax payer is OK as long nobody has been murdered.

How much more extreme can you get?

He accepts, without the need for trial, they are Guilty. Not even a hint that they might not be.

If this is an example of the "sovereignty" he wants back then we are headed for a full-on Fascist state. Right to a trial before your peers? Red tape. Who needs it? Abolish that.

Obviously the Human Rights Act is a problem here. No it ain't! Only Red Tape. Abolish that too.

We really are miles down a slippery slope when such things are even vaguely thought of let alone ringingly endorsed like this.

Both of your interpretations of my views highlight how out of touch (make that warped) you both are with an alternative opinion. Your replies are out of order. But then that's your problem.  A quick glance at the Jeremy Corbyn thread reveals how silly you both were then although I see that SFD is now backtracking.
I'll say again Corbyn will destroy the Labour Party with his selfish stubborn stance. Rightly or wrongly, May is where Blair was 20 years ago. Which is no good thing.

That's just plain barmy.

Greenskin wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

Here's the MPs and constituencies under investigation.

Including our very own Mr Colvile.

Our very own Jonny Marine has already fessed up to breaking the rules but doesn't seem to be under investigation.

What are they guilty of?

GBH, embezzlement, murder?  Nope. They allowed central government to pay for the travel and hotel expenses of other MPs that visited their constituencies to lend support.

Good to see your sense of proportion is still intact.

Your Hard Right bias is clouding your sense of proportion if anything.

What they've done is broken strict spending limits on campaigning by deviously declaring them as Governmental expenditure. So basically at the tax payer expense not the party. This should at the very least s force a re-run of the elections in their constituencies

What a ridiculous post, so breaking the law and deceiving the tax payer is OK as long nobody has been murdered.

How much more extreme can you get?

He accepts, without the need for trial, they are Guilty. Not even a hint that they might not be.

If this is an example of the "sovereignty" he wants back then we are headed for a full-on Fascist state. Right to a trial before your peers? Red tape. Who needs it? Abolish that.

Obviously the Human Rights Act is a problem here. No it ain't! Only Red Tape. Abolish that too.

We really are miles down a slippery slope when such things are even vaguely thought of let alone ringingly endorsed like this.

Cynicism about the integrity of MP's leads to full on fascist state!

You really are a complete and utter twat at times. No wonder people give you so much grief.

But I'm not abusive, am I?

I think we're well on the way to becoming a Fascist state and the core purpose of this General Election is to include somewhere in the Tory Manifesto that "Theresa can do as she pleases". This will then be used to ride roughshod over the normal political constraints and redresses which we commonly accept as our constitution and to obliterate any opposition amongst he own party as Theresa does as she pleases because "it was a Manifesto commitment".

Yvette Cooper put it very well in PMQs yesterday.



As does this letter featured on The Poke:

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