EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser - I have done the maths and I am concerned that you have lost 28,000 nurses. That’s a lot of nurses.

Even if your stats are correct and there are 20,000 EU nurses, SFDs post shows that it looks like they are not going to be replaced as the rate of new arrivals has dropped alarmingly.

But well done on working out that 20,560 is roughly 6 percent of 357,099.

PS - Diane as in Abbott.

Diane Abbott FFS! all the %ages are correct, I’m anything but a mathematician, %ages aren’t rocket science to work out, however I think it’s incorrect to add the all %ages together as each figure should treated on its own merit in regard to a %age of 357, 099.

I’m not disputing that recruitment may have dropped from the EU, but SFD stated that we cannot have Brexit and the NHS due to the dropped EU figures and that clearly cannot be the case as we only ever employed 6% from the EU states.
Everybody has their right to debate their beliefs, but quoting statistics which are meant to scare and potentially get leavers to think again, when clearly we don’t employ many EU nurses in the NHS loses all credibility.

Don’t know how the  mods let that abusive name (Diane Abbott) slip through !

So where do the other 28,000 nurses come from? You have taken issue with SFD saying that you can’t have Brexit and the NHS (his opinion), and accuse him of using statistics to scaremonger. But you are using statistics that don’t add up to support your opinion that we can have both. Until you can explain the missing 28,000 your statistics are the ones without any credibility.

And.......20,000 EU Nurses is a significant amount and we would be fecked without them.

For Gods sake, there are no 28,000 other nurses, each figure is a %age of 357, 099, you don't add up the %ages!!
My head hurts now I'm going for a lay down!!

It would really help if you read what I am saying/asking.

Forget the percentages. I am not talking about the percentages.

You said “Statistics can kick you in the bollocks”. You then stated that there are 357,099 nurses in the UK. You broke them down into Brits, non EU and EU. The total of these 3 groups comes to 328,404 - a difference of 28,695.

What group do these 28,695 nurses belong to?

Apologies can't cut and paste, look at my avatar

And the relevance is.....?

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser - I have done the maths and I am concerned that you have lost 28,000 nurses. That’s a lot of nurses.

Even if your stats are correct and there are 20,000 EU nurses, SFDs post shows that it looks like they are not going to be replaced as the rate of new arrivals has dropped alarmingly.

But well done on working out that 20,560 is roughly 6 percent of 357,099.

PS - Diane as in Abbott.

Diane Abbott FFS! all the %ages are correct, I’m anything but a mathematician, %ages aren’t rocket science to work out, however I think it’s incorrect to add the all %ages together as each figure should treated on its own merit in regard to a %age of 357, 099.

I’m not disputing that recruitment may have dropped from the EU, but SFD stated that we cannot have Brexit and the NHS due to the dropped EU figures and that clearly cannot be the case as we only ever employed 6% from the EU states.
Everybody has their right to debate their beliefs, but quoting statistics which are meant to scare and potentially get leavers to think again, when clearly we don’t employ many EU nurses in the NHS loses all credibility.

Don’t know how the  mods let that abusive name (Diane Abbott) slip through !

So where do the other 28,000 nurses come from? You have taken issue with SFD saying that you can’t have Brexit and the NHS (his opinion), and accuse him of using statistics to scaremonger. But you are using statistics that don’t add up to support your opinion that we can have both. Until you can explain the missing 28,000 your statistics are the ones without any credibility.

And.......20,000 EU Nurses is a significant amount and we would be fecked without them.

For Gods sake, there are no 28,000 other nurses, each figure is a %age of 357, 099, you don't add up the %ages!!
My head hurts now I'm going for a lay down!!

It would really help if you read what I am saying/asking.

Forget the percentages. I am not talking about the percentages.

You said “Statistics can kick you in the bollocks”. You then stated that there are 357,099 nurses in the UK. You broke them down into Brits, non EU and EU. The total of these 3 groups comes to 328,404 - a difference of 28,695.

What group do these 28,695 nurses belong to?

Apologies can't cut and paste, look at my avatar

And the relevance is.....?

Bugger if you look you can see the 28,000 “missing” nurses you and SFD have been banging on about

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser - I have done the maths and I am concerned that you have lost 28,000 nurses. That’s a lot of nurses.

Even if your stats are correct and there are 20,000 EU nurses, SFDs post shows that it looks like they are not going to be replaced as the rate of new arrivals has dropped alarmingly.

But well done on working out that 20,560 is roughly 6 percent of 357,099.

PS - Diane as in Abbott.

Diane Abbott FFS! all the %ages are correct, I’m anything but a mathematician, %ages aren’t rocket science to work out, however I think it’s incorrect to add the all %ages together as each figure should treated on its own merit in regard to a %age of 357, 099.

I’m not disputing that recruitment may have dropped from the EU, but SFD stated that we cannot have Brexit and the NHS due to the dropped EU figures and that clearly cannot be the case as we only ever employed 6% from the EU states.
Everybody has their right to debate their beliefs, but quoting statistics which are meant to scare and potentially get leavers to think again, when clearly we don’t employ many EU nurses in the NHS loses all credibility.

Don’t know how the  mods let that abusive name (Diane Abbott) slip through !

So where do the other 28,000 nurses come from? You have taken issue with SFD saying that you can’t have Brexit and the NHS (his opinion), and accuse him of using statistics to scaremonger. But you are using statistics that don’t add up to support your opinion that we can have both. Until you can explain the missing 28,000 your statistics are the ones without any credibility.

And.......20,000 EU Nurses is a significant amount and we would be fecked without them.

For Gods sake, there are no 28,000 other nurses, each figure is a %age of 357, 099, you don't add up the %ages!!
My head hurts now I'm going for a lay down!!

It would really help if you read what I am saying/asking.

Forget the percentages. I am not talking about the percentages.

You said “Statistics can kick you in the bollocks”. You then stated that there are 357,099 nurses in the UK. You broke them down into Brits, non EU and EU. The total of these 3 groups comes to 328,404 - a difference of 28,695.

What group do these 28,695 nurses belong to?

Apologies can't cut and paste, look at my avatar

And the relevance is.....?

Bugger if you look you can see  the 28,000 “missing” nurses you and SFD have been banging on about

I cannot read the text on the image because it’s too small.

Thanks, Mr Bullitt.

You saved me some typing.

I see the daily mail are backing boris while Tweeza's away on her hols. Reminiscent of Yeltsin giving Gorby the heave ho..... they wish !
So much for brexit being an anti establishment movement, pull the other one
and the harder the better no doubt, as it won't effect them what ever happens. Landowners, small and large, will still get their massive dole.

Not strictly true small landowners, under five hectares recieve feck all now whilst the top amount remains uncapped. And it was an anti establishment vote the biggest smack up the side of the head they have had for centuries. Will the establishment still feck us over? Absolutely especially with the media and the remainers all lining up on their side now. First take back control of Europe then start on our own fuckwits. The redistribution of wealth has got worse, much worse under Europe that cannot be denied.

Since when did the EU set UK taxation policy?

I don't disagree that wealth distribution has got much worse over the years but it is not an EU issue. It is UK governmental policy going back decades that has caused this. Nobody else is responsible for this but us for voting in the same old policies year after year.

I've never voted for the party in power so not my fault. The point remains we pay tax we then pay billions to Europe who then share some out and give some back to us in the form of subsidies. We then share this tax money out amoung our wealthy. They are all at it. The gap between rich and poor has been getting bigger and the fact that we have been part of Europe whilst his has happened is relevant.
Also the gap has got bigger in Europe as well as Globally. Personally I'm anti globalisation and all it's claims. As for tax the EU and the Global business model has seen the people with the most money paying feck all. You obviously think its all ok 17m would disagree with you.

Probably fewer than 17m of whom still draw breath.

In other news local councils have released impact assessments for what Brexit means to them following a Sky News freedom of info request.

They make for sobering reading.

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FFS, Henny Pennys off again.

The level of debate on here is not what it could be.

Might I respectfully suggest that if you have no interest in "EU referendum... the result.... the aftermath" then this thread might not be the one for you.

And if you have no interest in what I may say then block me then you won't even be able to read it.

It's what some might call "taking back control".

Talking of which Jacob Rees-Mogg takes back even more control of his investment portfolio and consolidates his new Dublin commitment.

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The skys falling in !

Get off your high horse Franny you ignore the other side of the debate, you constantly slur and infer racism against the other side and put all kinds of FB fake news charts, graphs and memes on here, that's not really debate it's called lecturing.
The BBC have been having a project fear special this week including six o'clock news and Spotlight with everything from running out of food to your holidays will be cancelled and all the planes grounded. We're not even going to be able to allow anyone in country over here for holidays. I've never heard such biased clap trap in all my life. The Spotlight one was particularly poor they started by very quickly mentioning that x amount of foreign nationals have visited this year with tourism up to I believe £14bn so far this year. They then went on to say with the aid of staunch remainer and remain contributed Flybe saying that planes could be grounded if a plan isnt made.
Sure the planes could be grounded, I'll bet anyone a tenner they won't be and the massive increase in tourism is down to the weak pound, like everything economy wise the are winners and losers have been for thousands of years. It's funny how quickly they manage to gloss over the positives and drive project fear home some more.
It's the most biased reporting Ive ever seen no wonder the less ably minded have been driven into a sense of panic.

can't post, just off to Boots to stockpile anusol.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Get off your high horse Franny you ignore the other side of the debate, you constantly slur and infer racism against the other side and put all kinds of FB fake news charts, graphs and memes on here, that's not really debate it's called lecturing.
The BBC have been having a project fear special this week including six o'clock news and Spotlight with everything from running out of food to your holidays will be cancelled and all the planes grounded. We're not even going to be able to allow anyone in country over here for holidays. I've never heard such biased clap trap in all my life. The Spotlight one was particularly poor they started by very quickly mentioning that x amount of foreign nationals have visited this year with tourism up to I believe £14bn so far this year. They then went on to say with the aid of staunch remainer and remain contributed Flybe saying that planes could be grounded if a plan isnt made.
Sure the planes could be grounded, I'll bet anyone a tenner they won't be and the massive increase in tourism is down to the weak pound, like everything economy wise the are winners and losers have been for thousands of years. It's funny how quickly they manage to gloss over the positives and drive project fear home some more.
It's the most biased reporting Ive ever seen no wonder the less ably minded have been driven into a sense of panic.

I do not infer and slur that the Leave campaign was racist. I bluntly, explicitly and deliberately say that it was, because it is undeniable and has even been admitted by key Leave leader Michael Gove, and give examples that have informed my view.

And while we are back on the subject of the fundamentally and blatantly racist Leave campaign can I point out that it was you that brought this up yet again and not me.

As for the "fake news" accusation... Really? That's just pathetic, isn't it?

Spouting "fake news" every time something gets posted that you don't like makes you look every bit as imbecilic as white supremacist, islamophobic, racist, xenophobic misogynistic Donald Trump does when he says the same. It's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalalala can't hear you"... Utterly pathetic. It certainly isn't a very mature approach to debate but as I said in a previous post there is precious little of that around these parts.

Just out of curiosity since you reject most news agencies, the BBC, Sky News and pretty much every other sensible media/news organisations as "fake news" then which ones can we rely on?

In future I'll try to keep off topics, such as the blatantly and fundamentally racist Leave campaign that paid a huge part in creating the political climate that led to the murder of Jo Cox and aped Nazi imagery in its posters. I'll even try not to mention that the Leave campaign was supported by blatantly and fundamentally racist organisations like UKIP, BNP, EDL, Britain First and the KKK. I'll not mention that the racist Leave campaign was illegally funded by money of indeterminate origin. I'll allow you full veto over any subject that it is permissible to mention and I'll explicitly stick to the topics that you dictate are relevant and only quote from news sources acceptable to you.

Obviously this seems to be explicitly fascistic and is a very long way from the freedom of speech and right to express opinions that ATD was set up to allow but that definitely seems to be the only way forward according to your wishes.

I, on the other hand, have never once told anybody what they can or cannot post about or where their sources for links should be.

Utter bullshit again laden with smears and slurs crack on meanwhile just read this on the Beeb another smear campaign this time by Priti Pretel kicked into the long grass.

The Electoral Commission has rejected claims that the official Remain campaign breached spending rules in the EU referendum.
The watchdog said it found "nothing beyond conjecture" to support claims of undeclared joint spending between Britain Stronger in Europe and others.

It's almost like there is an orchestrated campaign of fake news.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Graiser - I have done the maths and I am concerned that you have lost 28,000 nurses. That’s a lot of nurses.

Even if your stats are correct and there are 20,000 EU nurses, SFDs post shows that it looks like they are not going to be replaced as the rate of new arrivals has dropped alarmingly.

But well done on working out that 20,560 is roughly 6 percent of 357,099.

PS - Diane as in Abbott.

Diane Abbott FFS! all the %ages are correct, I’m anything but a mathematician, %ages aren’t rocket science to work out, however I think it’s incorrect to add the all %ages together as each figure should treated on its own merit in regard to a %age of 357, 099.

I’m not disputing that recruitment may have dropped from the EU, but SFD stated that we cannot have Brexit and the NHS due to the dropped EU figures and that clearly cannot be the case as we only ever employed 6% from the EU states.
Everybody has their right to debate their beliefs, but quoting statistics which are meant to scare and potentially get leavers to think again, when clearly we don’t employ many EU nurses in the NHS loses all credibility.

Don’t know how the  mods let that abusive name (Diane Abbott) slip through !

So where do the other 28,000 nurses come from? You have taken issue with SFD saying that you can’t have Brexit and the NHS (his opinion), and accuse him of using statistics to scaremonger. But you are using statistics that don’t add up to support your opinion that we can have both. Until you can explain the missing 28,000 your statistics are the ones without any credibility.

And.......20,000 EU Nurses is a significant amount and we would be fecked without them.

For Gods sake, there are no 28,000 other nurses, each figure is a %age of 357, 099, you don't add up the %ages!!
My head hurts now I'm going for a lay down!!

It would really help if you read what I am saying/asking.

Forget the percentages. I am not talking about the percentages.

You said “Statistics can kick you in the bollocks”. You then stated that there are 357,099 nurses in the UK. You broke them down into Brits, non EU and EU. The total of these 3 groups comes to 328,404 - a difference of 28,695.

What group do these 28,695 nurses belong to?

Apologies can't cut and paste, look at my avatar

And the relevance is.....?

Bugger if you look you can see  the 28,000 “missing” nurses you and SFD have been banging on about

I cannot read the text on the image because it’s too small.

The “missing” 28,000 are made up by mental health nurses, children’s nurses, community health nurses, learning disability nurses, midwives and health visitors.

Left-wing euroscepticism has a proud history. From Tony Benn to Bob Crow, socialists throughout history have had beef with the "eurocrats" in Brussels. Not many people know that the founder of Ukip, the timid intellectual Alan Sked, was a left-winger who left the party on the basis that: "[Ukip] are racist and have been infected by the far-right". I suspect that even Jeremy Corbyn is a closet eurosceptic, although of course he couldn't possibly say so. Many of Labour's new young members who joined to vote for Jeremy Corbyn will not remember that Labour opposed Britain's entry into the European Union in 1973.

The reasons today for lefties to be opposed to the European Union are as good as at any point in the past. For starters, the idea of a European Union, a racket of rich European countries uniting to exclude poorer countries goes against left-wing ideals of equality and fairness. The tariffs imposed by the EU against African and Asian countries make it much harder for poor African farmers, for example, to export grain or other goods to European countries. The idea that we should leave the EU-club so that we can trade with the rest of the world has been trotted out time-and-time again by the right-winger "Brexiteers", but few realise that not only does the UK stand to gain from increased trade with fast-growing BRIC countries, but millions could be lifted from poverty outside of the EU if we left.

There are also pernicious trade deals like TTIP being forced upon the people of Europe by the all-powerful, unelected European Commission. Millions have signed petitions against the trade deal, and hundreds of thousands marched in Berlin against it, but to no avail. The European Commission showed no interest in complaints; they decided to pass it against the interests and the demands of the people of Europe.

2016-03-23-1458752280-9492988-MJuLRf5.jpg

This is the problem: many on the left believe that, because the continent is slightly more left-wing than Britain, the left will stand to benefit from an undemocratic European Union. But when trade deals like TTIP are on the cards, there is nothing that can be done to prevent them, given that there is no possible way to kick out Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission. Many are unaware that the biggest party in the European Parliament is the European People's Party, a centre-right grouping that often tries to pass right-wing legislation, and that the president of the European Commission is also a member of this right-wing group.

If you think that this blatant lack of democracy has no real impact on anything, think again. When Greece elected Syriza, the anti-austerity party, they could do very little to prevent austerity being forced upon them by Angela Merkel and her EU toadies. Similarly, in Portugal, the left-wing government was initially not allowed into power, and the conservative government was allowed to remain, because the left represented anti-European forces. Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn was elected in 2020 but refused power on the grounds that his economic policy was not compatible with the will of the European Union: the left would rightly be up in arms.

So, if you are a young person who is planning to vote in the referendum on June 23rd, do not vote to stay in the European Union on the grounds that most of those who oppose it are right-wing loonies. Listen to the seldom expressed left-wing arguments for leaving the European Union, because there are lots of things that are wrong with the EU that are not often publicised in the mainstream media. Remember that the likes of Tony Benn did not approve of the European Union, and that you have no obligation to approve of it either.

Even the guy that founded UKIP says he left because it has been infected by racism?

I didn't know that.

Obviously I knew UKIP is infected by racism; it was the fact that the founder of the party had left it for that reason that is news to me.

Earwegoagain wrote:

The Electoral Commission has rejected claims that the official Remain campaign breached spending rules in the EU referendum.

There you have it once again.

The only side found to have breached the rules and to have run an illegal campaign was Leave.

This is now absolutely beyond doubt and knocks any whataboutery on the subject into oblivion.

Apart from the two other cases of remain breaching regulations that they're looking into now.

So "the only side found to have breached the rules and to have run an illegal campaign was Leave" remains the truth.

Labour also wants to renationalise the railways and water industry. The EU does not have a policy on privatisation, although by 2023 it will be mandatory for all contracts to run rail services to be open to tender by both public and private operators

The EU opening railways to private operators....