EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

If you really think and hope that the leavers will be crushed by the EU juggernaut then that is a sad indictment of your view of democracy.

What have you won?

Nothing whatsoever. There is no prize as you put it until Article 50 is triggered. And even then there's an eighteen month wait.

What fascinates me is how the establishment are trying every trick in the book to stop it happening.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Invited is the wrong word as Italy is a republic and not a monarchy. However the point is that the movement is anti establishment, eurosceptic and have pledged to offer a in/out referendum.

'The times are a changing' applies as much to today as it did in the sixties.

To be clear. The Five Star Movement would offer a referendum on whether Italy should remain a part of the single currency. Not the EU.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Nothing whatsoever. There is no prize as you put it until Article 50 is triggered. And even then there's an eighteen month wait.

What fascinates me is how the establishment are trying every trick in the book to stop it happening.

So what do you expect will happen.

Bear in mind I don't like the EU either, its run by complete no marks. just happen to think we are better off trying to change the rules whilst we are playing the game rather than throwing a tantrum because no one will pass to us and storing off. The trouble is cutting ourselves lose will make us a complete non entity in international terms.

Especially when one of the leading lights of the leave campaign has, rightly in this case, recently slagged off one of outpr biggest non EU trade partners.

What do you Expect will happen, will it be better or is the 'prize' so worthwhile due to its own merits, that a the decrease in living standards that the (cough, spit) experts have alway warned us will happen

A referendum on the euro rather than membership is misleading. There is no way that Brussels would accept a return to the lira. This would result in another referendum, only this time a in/out one. The EU's major problem has been its inability to set different interest rates for individual countries. It's 'one size fits all' solution is anything but. What the struggling members need is low interest rates to kick start their economies whilst Germany needs higher rates. No prizes for guessing who wins.

And then we have the problem of a European army. This puts at risk NATO's existence. Who can blame Trump for insisting that countries pay their fair share towards maintaining it. The likelihood of nuclear war comes into play when you have a European army directly on Russia's borders.

And Hugh, I don't accept your description of the UK being non entities. We are the worlds fifth largest economy. Which must count for something I would imagine.

Brussels' arrogance and intransigence is so stunning that they deserve everything coming their way.

From this:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

..to this:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

...in just a few months.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

A referendum on the euro rather than membership is misleading. There is no way that Brussels would accept a return to the lira. This would result in another referendum, only this time a in/out one. The EU's major problem has been its inability to set different interest rates for individual countries. It's 'one size fits all' solution is anything but. What the struggling members need is low interest rates to kick start their economies whilst Germany needs higher rates. No prizes for guessing who wins.

And then we have the problem of a European army. This puts at risk NATO's existence. Who can blame Trump for insisting that countries pay their fair share towards maintaining it. The likelihood of nuclear war comes into play when you have a European army directly on Russia's borders.

And Hugh, I don't accept your description of the UK being non entities. We are the worlds fifth largest economy. Which must count for something I would imagine.

Brussels' arrogance and intransigence is so stunning that they deserve everything coming their way.

No proposals for a eu army and it's the USA putting NATOs existence at risk by threatening to leave it

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You still haven't told me what it is you think you have 'won'

I lost at Darts on Friday. What did I lose, f*ck all. What did my opponent win, ditto.

This isn't about prizes.

I don't think you understand the process at all.

Explain it then.

I most certainly don't understand it. And here's a blow to your ego. Neither do you. You might think you do, in fact you certainly think you do. These are interwoven complex deals drummed up by lawyers and specialists yet you expect it all to be sorted tomorrow.

No.

I expect it to collapse into a horrendous mess that leaves us all worse off. Eventually. I certainly don't expect it to be sorted in any coherent sense ever and certainly not soon.

At best.

We'll be better off if it never gets sorted at all.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I lost at Darts on Friday. What did I lose, f*ck all. What did my opponent win, ditto.

This isn't about prizes.

I don't think you understand the process at all.

No you don't understand, you can't explain what you think you will get as a result of this shambles. Because of the fact leave campaign ran on a bedrock of vague platitudes and outright lies, you don't have an answer . The darts analogy merely cements my point, you think it's a game. Reduce it down to base partisanship... (you lost... get over it..remoaner) it's all you've got

Here's some of things you definitely won't be getting.

More money for the NHS? Not happening, in fact less money for the NHS
Stronger economy? The government is having to borrow an extra £60 million directly as a result of Brexit.
Controls on immmigration? That pledge lasted a few hours after the result was announced
Primacy of parliament? You lot kicked off when it was proven to be illegal for the government to bypass that same institution

So unless your decision was purely emotional based on a combination of mild xenophobia, wilful ignorance of facts or impotent irritation . Why can't you spell out what you voted for and what you think you are going to get?

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

I most certainly don't understand it. And here's a blow to your ego. Neither do you. You might think you do, in fact you certainly think you do. These are interwoven complex deals drummed up by lawyers and specialists yet you expect it all to be sorted tomorrow.

No expect it to be sorted in 2 years otherwise we are fecked. Anyway I thought you lot had enough of experts

You do understand that these lawyers and "specialists" will want paying for their services and we will need a lot of them and someone (us) will have to pick up the bill

It's never ending with you isn't it. You have to comeback with something, even something so obvious.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

It's never ending with you isn't it. You have to comeback with something, even something so obvious.

Yeah bloody facts eh, Perhaps when we leave the EU we can ban the use facts in arguments. Along with experts... oh hang we need them to ntangle us from this huge mess of our own making don't we?

Hugh Watt wrote:

Here's some of things you definitely won't be getting.

More money for the NHS? Not happening, in fact less money for the NHS

The NHS confederation has only just released the following figures.

NHS net expenditure has increased to £117,229 billion in 2015/16. Planned expenditure for 2016/17 is £120.611 billion.

Between 2009 and 2015 there has been a rise in the number of doctors by 8.9%.

There has been an increase of 28% in the number of operations in 2015/16 than a decade earlier.

Like I say the process is incredibly complex (it was always meant to be) so why not give the people involved a bit of time to apply their knowledge (or lack of, we shall see).

The bottom line is your sour grapes outlook, along with falsehoods, is tiresome.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

Here's some of things you definitely won't be getting.

More money for the NHS? Not happening, in fact less money for the NHS

The NHS confederation has only just released the following figures.

NHS net expenditure has increased to £117,229 billion in 2015/16. Planned expenditure for 2016/17 is £120.611 billion.

Between 2009 and 2015 there has been a rise in the number of doctors by 8.9%.

There has been an increase of 28% in the number of operations in 2015/16 than a decade earlier.

Like I say the process is incredibly complex (it was always meant to be) so why not give the people involved a bit of time to apply their knowledge (or lack of, we shall see).

The bottom line is your sour grapes outlook, along with falsehoods, is tiresome.

You talk about falsehoods and then dish out a whopper yourself, the budget has not changed in real terms.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The NHS actually faces a budget shortfall of 10 billion a year so the rise is a drop in the ocean. The point is it was written on the side of a bus and then disowned and now we read this.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It takes 5 years to train a doctor so this was all stuff provided for by the last Labour Government

Still think the future of the country can be whittled down to the result of a football match I see and still can't tell me what this bright future is you think you have won for us. I also suggest you read up what article 50 actually is, its not a trade deal and we have 2 years to leave without driving the nations economy off a cliff.

You quite clearly say that there's less money for the NHS. I've come up with the latest confirmed figures. That they are an uncomfortable truth is not my problem.

Your bitterness is plain to see.

Shock horror!!!

Remainer admits he's wrong!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

You quite clearly say that there's less money for the NHS. I've come up with the latest confirmed figures. That they are an uncomfortable truth is not my problem.

Your bitterness is plain to see.

Oh dear, you do know we haven't actually left the EU yet?

Proving there was an additional 3 billion last year does not support leaving the EU in any way, shape or form. In fact quite the opposite!

In actual fact, the additional money you point at was from actually from Osborne frontloading the 3.8 billion from existing budget set last year

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

However you are still refusing to say what you wanted from Brexit and you think you'll get. Why is that?

Rickler wrote:

Shock horror!!!

Remainer admits he's wrong!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Niall Ferguson by his own admission is a Eurosceptic and all round wind up merchant who probably voted leave in the first place. Regardless it's hardly Saul on the road to Damascus is it?

Good writer though

l voted to leave so we could regain control of our fishing waters.

And i voted primarily to uncouple from the unelected, undemocratic and bankrupt EU.