Plymouth Argyle v Dagenham & Redbridge Match Day Thread

Amsterdamage wrote:

How does a player like Luke turn crap after all these years? One of the best in the division if not the best. Personally I think Adams needs to get down to defenders are us in the summer sharpish. I can't argue with you skinny as I've not seen nearly as many games as you this season but even when we were top our goal difference wasn't too good suggesting we let too many goals in.

Don't think that was the case, until fairly recently Argyle had the best defensive record in the division and it was scoring goals that was the real problem. Even now, Argyle still have about the fourth best in the league but comfortably the worst scoring record in the top six. That game yesterday was eerily similar to the Wycombe first leg last year-complete defensive capitulation after being pretty sound all season, hope it's out of the way in time for the play offs this time.

To be Mcormick has had James bitter as his coach

Luke has never come for crosses period!!!!

Good shot stopper on his day, a bit short in height, but average mostly, never bought into his suuper handle!!!

Been a weak link often, only now it counts do peeps see it!!!

For the Tonys of this world bigger picture is Brents hands in his pocket or he's at the leisure centre doing the hebrew breast-stroke!!

Thing is though, like in any work place, there could be loads of reasons why a persons performance has dipped. Personal, family, financial, on and on ... but all we see is 90 or 180 minutes a week. We have no idea what is going on outside of those times. I'm not defending poor performances but sometimes there is more to it.

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I thought it was a bad crowd for such an important game, off the back of 2 good away wins.
We don't really deserve much more than Div 2 do we really?!

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I don't think that's right. Crowds did pick up massively, but that was due in no small part to us romping to a record points total of 102.

Contrast that with our mid-table form since Xmas, and it's no real surprise attendances haven't rocketed.

Czarcasm wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I don't think that's right. Crowds did pick up massively, but that was due in no small part to us romping to a record points total of 102.

Contrast that with our mid-table form since Xmas, and it's no real surprise attendances haven't rocketed.

I'm far from a statto but in the last days of evil dan it was crowds of 2500 to 4000 post stapes it climbed steadily but when we got to playoffs it was crazy busy, Brent started with well over 5000 post admin and hasn't increased it much considering this is (or was) a "promotion season."

Apologies. I was quoting the attendances when going up from division 1 to the championship.
But in the league 2 promotion season a couple years earlier, we still rocketed to an average of 13000 for the last 6 games.
Nothing like it these days. The feel is different, it is a different club with a different emphasis that is hard to like.

Lord Biro wrote:

Apologies. I was quoting the attendances when going up from division 1 to the championship.
But in the league 2 promotion season a couple years earlier, we still rocketed to an average of 13000 for the last 6 games.
Nothing like it these days. The feel is different, it is a different club with a different emphasis that is hard to like.

Indeed.

I did not go yesterday, regardless of how important the game was. I hope to go to the final home game against Hartlepool United and the Play-Semi-Final against whoever (probably Pompey ?).

In the 35 years I have supported Argyle, they have never really had big crowds on a regular basis. Those are reserved for promotion winning seasons or avoiding relegation battles.

When I started following Argyle, crowds were between 2,500-5,500. In the time since, they have gone up and down accordingly.

BBC1 wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I thought it was a bad crowd for such an important game, off the back of 2 good away wins.
We don't really deserve much more than Div 2 do we really?!

A large part of the relatively small attendance could be that just about without exception in recent times Argyle have blown it when big crowds have turned up-can't remember a single really convincing performance even going back to the play off first leg last year and there have been some downright bad performances. For quite a few of the big matches,some of the supporters who sat near to me and who were regulars in CCC days returned temporarily, but have been conspicuous in their absence even for the important recent matches and obviously were not under the impression that Argyle were capable of anything special from what they saw. Mind you,to get it into some perspective Oxford only had 7000 odd yesterday to see them go into the automatics,so maybe it wasn't that bad a gate all things considered.

BBC1 wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I thought it was a bad crowd for such an important game, off the back of 2 good away wins.
We don't really deserve much more than Div 2 do we really?!

9k abysmal really but a damning verdict on fc brent

Greenskin wrote:

BBC1 wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I thought it was a bad crowd for such an important game, off the back of 2 good away wins.
We don't really deserve much more than Div 2 do we really?!

A large part of the relatively small attendance could be that just about without exception in recent times Argyle have blown it when big crowds have turned up-can't remember a single really convincing performance even going back to the play off first leg last year and there have been some downright bad performances. For quite a few of the big matches,some of the supporters who sat near to me and who were regulars in CCC days returned temporarily, but have been conspicuous in their absence even for the important recent matches and obviously were not under the impression that Argyle were capable of anything special from what they saw. Mind you,to get it into some perspective Oxford only had 7000 odd yesterday to see them go into the automatics,so maybe it wasn't that bad a gate all things considered.

Oxford a strange one really, a non league club for most of its existance but been in top flight for a few years as well

And add Cowley into the mix in their history, and you've got a right weird club.
They've never been a well supported club at whatever level. Everyone there is too busy punting if they're young, and shopping for expensive furniture if they're old.

Elias wrote:

BBC1 wrote:

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

I thought it was a bad crowd for such an important game, off the back of 2 good away wins.
We don't really deserve much more than Div 2 do we really?!

9k abysmal really but a damning verdict on fc brent

The poor crowd was due to a number of different factors.

The most significant of which has been the lack of feel that this is going to be a promotion campaign. I didn't go to Pompey but the atmosphere in the ground, as it came across on the radio, was sensational. It sounded just like a proper, big important game; an occasion. When was the last time we had that at Argyle? A real rip-roaring insanely passionate crowd that simply demanded a certain outcome? The Newcastle game when we were relegated and they were Champions? The Southampton game when we were relegated and they were champions (or was it just promoted?)? We want to believe in the team, manager and owner but we don't because none of them have proved to us that they are worthy of that belief and the few times this season that we have come close to believing and the team has had a chance to show us what it could do we've lost - I'm thinking the Exeter and Pompey home games here.

So is it down to the squad being too small? We had a seriously weakened line-up for the Exeter home game so maybe. Maybe it was all starting to be lost back then?

The other thing is our ground itself. Regardless of any future plans it should be made Top Priority that the Maflower Terrace is brought back into usage. Seats, standing, safe standing trial... Whatever it takes. It needs to be done.

The argument against will be "there is no business case". This thinking lies at the very core of the problem. If the club isn't panning to be successful and isn't showing belief in itself then the fans are not going to believe either. Simple as that.

Not only does greater ground capacity allow the chance of bigger crowds - you can't get 20,000 in if capacity is only 15,000 after all - it also encourages bigger crowds. No need to get a ticket. Just rock up on the day and hand over the cash. People don't want to print their own tickets (and pay for the privilege of so doing) or risk being on the phone for ages being charged for the call as oon as the automated message goes out. They hate it so they don't do it so they don't end up going.

We might as well write this campaign off now as yet another desperate failure and file memories of the D&R game along with those of that awful night against Wycombe last year but next year is another chance so let's not let it slip: let's see a properly resourced manager recruit a properly strong squad; let's see the club actually maximising its own potential by getting that Mayflower Terrace back in use; let's give the impression that we are planning to succeed rather than merely hoping that we do.

Or I could be wrong. The season isn't over yet. Win our last 2 games and we coud, unlikely though it is, still sneak an automatic promotion spot. Failing that we could win the play-offs...

And if we do then there's all the more reason to grab the chance of growing that momentum and we need the Mayflower back more than ever to achieve it.

I think back to the recent games where we lost the game late on. Accy & Exeter are two. Had we held on to the 1-0 lead we would, by now, almost be home and dry.

To be blunt that's a piss weak argument.

... and if we hadn't scored late goals at Pompey and D&R (away) we'd've lost 1-0.

So what?

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The argument against will be "there is no business case". This thinking lies at the very core of the problem. If the club isn't panning to be successful and isn't showing belief in itself then the fans are not going to believe either. Simple as that.

Not only does greater ground capacity allow the chance of bigger crowds - you can't get 20,000 in if capacity is only 15,000 after all - it also encourages bigger crowds. No need to get a ticket. Just rock up on the day and hand over the cash. People don't want to print their own tickets (and pay for the privilege of so doing) or risk being on the phone for ages being charged for the call as oon as the automated message goes out. They hate it so they don't do it so they don't end up going.

I've been banging on about the emboldened bit for years. It's one of THE big reasons  many casuals have given up the ghost, literally. Even former POTD regulars like me . I never got over the closure of the Mayflower. Like the brave few, I kept on going afterward, putting up with the Lyndhurst or wherever, but it was never a happy marriage, with regular ticketing fiascos and frustrations. And who wants to sit staring at an empty terrace, full of stupid adverts ? Slow on the uptake people like Brent, who only see the bottom line, just don't get it, and refuse to pay out 100K a year for decking out the Mayflower. That's a classic false economy. And lets not even mention the ridiculous family enclosure thing.  Going through the ludicrous procedure of getting tickets rather than paying on the day is just an absolute no no. How many more times does it have to be said. There wouldn't be many ST holders that would bother with such a nonsense, that's for sure.
I was down at the Mennaye recently, and half their ground is scaffolded seating like the Mayflower was. Quite acceptable. So how come the Pirates can afford such seating, but Argyle can't ?
It feels like a club on borrowed time, and is just that. Brent's time here has done nothing but pay off football debts and replace them with other debts to himself and others. What a wonderful business plan..... not.  His Akkeron hotel fiasco and ultimate collapse, let alone his "global" farming , showed just how he hasn't the business acumen to take over ailing bodies. He just sits there, spinning plates, ultimately smashing the lot. And this is the man that's going to buy the stadium. God preserve us !

It has all the allure of a morgue, or a night out in Norwich with Alan Partridge and Tex. Argyle fans are more mourners than moaners, with their bowed heads and sloping shoulders. Forget the stupid purple that does so much for a proud individual GREEN brand. Might as well just play in black, far more apt.

I agree with Sir FD about the Mayflower terrace being wasted.......it is an obvious own goal situation and leaves me gobsmacked that it has been empty for years...it looks like the remnant of the blitz....ok the argument is we intend to build a new Grandstand and feel it is a waste of money developing it.......but if it had been used in the meanwhile would Argyle have been a better home team and be playing at a higher level bringing in more income to off-set the Grandstand argument ?

Atmosphere is hard to produce at Home Park with that 100 yard plus desolate empty Mayflower terrace......the away team are not hemmed in on three sides by the noise pressure that can build up by home team support.

In fact literally 50% of the pitch edge is un-occupied because of poor away support added to the Mayflower terrace not being used.

Even at AFC Wimbledon with their small crowds there can be more atmosphere because the fans can literally touch the players down the sides.....it helps to create intimidation and of course pressure.

Lord Biro wrote:

9000, a big crowd ? You're having a laugh.
A really, really poor attendance given the importance of the game. The last time Argyle got promoted from League 2, the attendances rocketed in the second half of the season, with the last 6 or 7 games in March and April averaging over 15,000..... a huge hike from the 8000 odd earlier in the season.
Just goes to show what a ghetto Argyle have become, even with the new converts from the Sturrock days. Only superfans wanted, plastics derided and punished with even more exorbitant admittance fees.
The village is shrinking, and it deserves to shrink. One more interesting fact. That promotion season, the whole team were players contracted to Argyle. Not a loanee in sight. This is Brent's vision. How times have changed for the worse.

Quote LB :
'I've been banging on about the emboldened bit for years. It's one of THE big reasons  many casuals have given up the ghost, literally. Even former POTD regulars like me . I never got over the closure of the Mayflower. Like the brave few, I kept on going afterward, putting up with the Lyndhurst or wherever, but it was never a happy marriage, with regular ticketing fiascos and frustrations. And who wants to sit staring at an empty terrace, full of stupid adverts ? Slow on the uptake people like Brent, who only see the bottom line, just don't get it, and refuse to pay out 100K a year for decking out the Mayflower. That's a classic false economy. And lets not even mention the ridiculous family enclosure thing.  Going through the ludicrous procedure of getting tickets rather than paying on the day is just an absolute no no. How many more times does it have to be said. There wouldn't be many ST holders that would bother with such a nonsense, that's for sure.
I was down at the Mennaye recently, and half their ground is scaffolded seating like the Mayflower was. Quite acceptable. So how come the Pirates can afford such seating, but Argyle can't ?
It feels like a club on borrowed time, and is just that. Brent's time here has done nothing but pay off football debts and replace them with other debts to himself and others. What a wonderful business plan..... not.  His Akkeron hotel fiasco and ultimate collapse, let alone his "global" farming jocolor , showed just how he hasn't the business acumen to take over ailing bodies. He just sits there, spinning plates, ultimately smashing the lot. And this is the man that's going to buy the stadium. God preserve us !

It has all the allure of a morgue, or a night out in Norwich with Alan Partridge and Tex. Argyle fans are more mourners than moaners, with their bowed heads and sloping shoulders. Forget the stupid purple that does so much for a proud individual GREEN brand. Might as well just play in black, far more apt.'

Tis all true.................the club is following the pasoti model and fast disappearing up its own devious, low grade, bucket rattling backside .

I used to use the Mayflower before the new Lyndy was built and used to love it. The atmosphere comes from not only fans being behind the dugouts but near the away fans as well, plenty of give and take and individuals could be heard at times with the "bants" knocking Fucksy and Motormouth into a cocked hat. It was also a great place to berate the chairman from as Evildan would attest to and probably another reason why the present chairman with his entourage of protecting yes man wouldnt want it opened, ever.

Amsterdamage wrote:

I used to use the Mayflower before the new Lyndy was built and used to love it. The atmosphere comes from not only fans being behind the dugouts but near the away fans as well, plenty of give and take and individuals could be heard at times with the "bants" knocking Fucksy and Motormouth into a cocked hat. It was also a great place to berate the chairman from as Evildan would attest to and probably another reason why the present chairman with his entourage of protecting yes man wouldnt want it opened, ever.

Indeed................. and the reluctant one has been told of the club's potential and is greedy enough, like the last 'run by fans for fans' board, to believe the wider public will turn up in droves at the slightest hint of success. Plymouth is no different to any other city club pre developed ground/infrastructure and some obvious cash backed ambition. They won't.
His jamboys moan of apathetic janners but it is just as much the case now that their bucket rattling and Avivafesting is enough to put anyone, with a degree of class and style right off. The already hooked wannabes lap it up of course.
It is even worse than that, as those who provide his Aviva shield and are allowed the run of the place, are parochial enough to be happy being lower league big fish forever.................as long as they get to look important.
The reluctant one, as Lord Biro points out is a squatter, hoping to get lucky. The one thing he needs to realise is that people won't flock to his underfunded village show and the future remains uninspiring and tenuous.

Just watch the jamboys endorse his ground purchase................using someone else's money.History repeating itself.

Its took me 2days to even write anythink about this fiasco bloody shocking we left at h/t
What is more shocking people had the hump & were moaning.but we were the only ones aiming it towards brent in the D/B and vocal when we left and people were looking at us if were were mad.tell you what people deserve this brentmare unless your prepare fight against it wake me up when this brentmares over

Typical Argyle......

I first attended in 1956 in Div Two V Lincoln City, was most surprised and upset that the guy behind me kept shouting "same old rubbish, Argyle". Came to realise that this is the normal attitude of Argyle fans.